.9 repeating = 1? Is our numerical system flawed?

Lets look at this logicaly, instead of pure mathematiclay.

There is a reason that "infinity" exists behind the decimal point. It is because there is no limit to how much you can divide something. No matter what, you can always divide smaller, and smaller, and smaller.

Unless of course you are talking about a physical object in the dimension of humans. Of course humans are going to think there IS a limit when you are trying to slice an apple to infinity with a knife, because you wont even be able to see any pieces when they are that small. But mathematicaly, you can still divide it into as many pieces as you want.

This is why "infinity" exists behind the decimal, you can always divide smaller. Can you divide 1 apple into 10 pieces? Yes. Can you divide it in 10000 pieces? Yes. Can you divide it into 10000000000000000000000000 pieces? Yes. Is there a limit? No.

Now what about "infinity" on the LEFT side of the decimal? How often do you run across that? Why is there only 1 way to make infinity on the left side of the decimal? But so many ways on the RIGHT side of the decimal?

It's simple... because there is no limit to how much you can divide something.







[edit on 4-4-2008 by ALLis0NE]

Okay, then let's look at it logically and scientifically instead of pure mathematically.

In physical reality you can not always divide smaller and smaller. There is a limit. I can not take an apple and divide it into more parts than it is made up of. It has a set number of orbitals such as electrons, atoms, molecules etc. I can not continue to cut those in half because they would then start to become unstable and their valence capabilities and valence shells are limited, the properties that cause their chemical coherence are limited.

Space/time is eternal, the constituents of space/time... that being the elements, atoms etc. are of a limited set, but an unlimited number. For example, if the universe was made only of oxygen and hydrogen then there would be an eternal amount of oxygen and hydrogen, but there would only be oxygen and hydrogen.

So its limit is unlimited... or once again... 1 is infinite.

Now what about "infinity" on the LEFT side of the decimal? How often do you run across that? Why is there only 1 way to make infinity on the left side of the decimal? But so many ways on the RIGHT side of the decimal?

They are both the same. Each side is infinite.

[edit on 4-4-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

OMG LEARN TO READ!!!!!

I just told you, STOP DIVIDING PHYSICALY. We are dividing MATHEMATICALY, there is no mathematical limit to how much you can divide something. This is the point I am trying to get to you....

Lets look at this logicaly, instead of pure mathematically.

This is where I start treating you like a child.

You should also know that logic and mathematics are the same thing.

When you say you no longer want to do something mathematically and you'd rather it do it logically, then expect logic to be invoked.

Are any mods even watching this? It's getting quite ridiculous that this poster can't follow his/her own guidelines and then lashes out at me/other posters because they can follow them.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

Now what about "infinity" on the LEFT side of the decimal? How often do you run across that? Why is there only 1 way to make infinity on the left side of the decimal? But so many ways on the RIGHT side of the decimal?

They are both the same. Each side is infinite.

I didn't say they weren't. Please learn to read.

Get a calculator, and try as hard as you can to make "infinity" on the LEFT side of the decimal. There is only 1 way to do that. Yet there are multiple ways to do that on the RIGHT side of the decimal. Do you know exactly why that is? I do.


[edit on 4-4-2008 by ALLis0NE]

Infinity can be made on the left side just as much as on the right side. Multiplication is the mirror of division.

I have an honest question for you. What grade are you in and what is your highest level of mathematics?

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
Get a calculator, and try as hard as you can to make "infinity"

A calculator is a finite machine. You'll be hard-pressed to get infinity on one even if you have a TI-84 (or my favorite the TI-89). Secondly infinity is just a mathematical idea. It doesn't work in reality and since you can't write an infinite number, or see an infinite amount displayed on a machine it's best to speak of limits of things as they approach infinity.

Point in case. Take a hotel that has an infinite number of rooms and add an infinite number of guest. Simple right? Now have all the guest in even numbered rooms check out of the hotel. How many people are left? An infinite amount of course. There are an odd number of infinite rooms and they're still all occupied. Now the next day have all the guest in odd numbered rooms check out. *Poof* the hotel is empty, but why should this be when we checked the same number of people out the day before and it made no difference in the number of guests?

Infinity is a philisophical idea, not a mathmatical reality. It's true the combining numbers with philosiphy can accomplish great things, but just remember that it's all in your head.

[edit on 4-4-2008 by dbates]

reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal


Please tell me, how would you go about getting "infinity" on your calculator?

I know many ways to do it on the Right side of the decimal, but not the left.

1 divided by 3 = .3... (infinity)
2 divided by 3 = .6... (infinity)
3 divided by 3 = 1
3 + (infinity) = (infinity)
3 x (infinity) = (infintiy)


Why is it, the only way to get infinity on the right side of the decimal on a caluclator is to involve infinity in the equation?





[edit on 4-4-2008 by ALLis0NE]

reply to post by ALLis0NE

1 divided by 3 = .3333333....
1 times 3 = ....00000000003.000000000...

You calculator simply rounds off the leading zeros but I can assure you that they are there. Infinity (in theory) exists on either side of the decimal point.

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
Please tell me, how would you go about getting "infinity" on your calculator?

I don't know why you're so obsessed with calculators, but I won't question it and will answer your inquisitions on the basis of your preambles as I have done my best to do ergo far.

I am not well versed with calculators but I'd assume that it'd be easier to create infinity on a calculator through equations that deal with repeating decimals. An easy way to get infinity is to simply press 0.

1 divided by 3 = .3... (infinity)
2 divided by 3 = .6... (infinity)
3 divided by 3 = 1
3 + (infinity) = (infinity)
3 x (infinity) = (infintiy)

There are an infinite amount of numbers. So you can take any of those numbers and multiply them by infinity or add them to infinity, etc. Since that is an equation that you put to use above. Therefore both sides have an equivalent amount of ways to make infinity... and that is an INFINITE amount of ways.

Why is it, the only way to get infinity on the right side of the decimal on a caluclator is to involve infinity in the equation?

I suppose that you mean the left side? Maybe my assumptions are misplaced here.

Because one already says in itself that it is infinite. All numbers to the left side of the decimal point represent a piece of infinity. It is a given. An infinite amount of zeros to the left and an infinite amount of zeros to the right. The piece of infinity is the "whole" number. The piece of that "whole number" is represented on the right side of the decimal.

[edit on 4-4-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

reply to post by dbates



You are catching on! But not quite there yet.

Zero's are not numbers.

To the left side of all "whole numbers" is a "...".

For example: 3 would look like this ...3.

Why? Because we know that all numbers come from infinity.

So if I have one pen exemplified as: 1.0 What is that one pen of? It is of infinity. But why should I place a ...1.0 every time I want to write one? Maybe I would do this only when I want to show that this one pen is of infinity to someone trying to learn, such as yourself.

But then it would also be ...1.0... you see?

[edit on 4-4-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

LOL

Ok, now you are really making me laugh.

Answer this, how many different types of EQUATIONS can give you an infinite number on the RIGHT side of the decimal?

X + infinity = infinty
X - infinity = infinity
X * infinity = infinity








[edit on 4-4-2008 by ALLis0NE]

A 0 is never ending and never beginning, a void, an absence, eternity, infinity. 0 is what all things are of and 0 is of all things.

Here's another example. Imagine that you are looking at a jumbled bunch of miscellanious objects. In the middle of these objects you decide to focus on a ball. To the right of the ball are many objects, to the left of the ball... are many objects... but you decide to perceptionally pull this one object from reality... so everything else becomes irrelevent in a sense and only peripheral... let's call those other things 0 now. On a calculator it would look like this. ...01.0...

Imagine that 1 as the ball and those zeros as the other objects and the "..." on both sides everything else that exists forever.

Remember that mathematics alone (all one, al-one) is a delisional and illusional reality with no relation to physical existence. Until you relate mathematics to physical reality it means absolutely nothing but an infinite quarrel.

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
X + infinity = infinty
X - infinity = infinity
X * infinity = infinity

Sure but those X variables are infinite, therefore the equations can use an infinite amount of varying numbers as X.

Going by the standards you placed above there would be as many equations involving infinity with an X variable as there are available computations. Square root, division, absolute value, etc.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "infinite number". I'll assume you just mean infinite and are not trying to toy with me in word games, because I am awesome at those.

I suppose there could be ONE equation that could compute the TOTAL number of possible equations for the universe. No, I don't suppose. I know this.

[edit on 4-4-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
Remember that mathematics alone (all one, al-one) is a delisional and illusional reality with no relation to physical existence.

I already know that, and dbates already stated that, you do not need to repeat that.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
Until you relate mathematics to physical reality it means absolutely nothing but an infinite quarrel.

Well then maybe you should take a deeper look at physics. This is my specialty.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
In physical reality you can not always divide smaller and smaller. There is a limit.

Your quote above is stated like a fact. When it is not one.




[edit on 4-4-2008 by ALLis0NE]

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
Your quote above is stated like a fact. When it is not one.

Oh but it is. How dwindling your thought to not recognize such.

Tell me of the thing that you can divide infinitely in physical reality that is not infinity itself.

reply to post by dbates


Doesn't that frustrate you that you can put together such a logical and sound argument, only to be shut down by:

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
You are catching on! But not quite there yet.

Zero's are not numbers.

Ohhhh touche. It all makes sense now?

Now that you, dbates, and LastOut are back, perhaps I'll try again to explain basic math to this guy. He just doesn't listen though.

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
Well then maybe you should take a deeper look at physics. This is my specialty.

By specialty you mean...?

You have to understand math to understand physics. For instance, 1/3 would probably considered a prerequisite to the field.

You've already once said .999999 "doesn't exist", and then you said .00000000000...1 does exist (despite your claim otherwise, I have it directly quoted so you can't wriggle out of it). So please, quit trying to talk to us like your some ET from outer space aiding stupid humans in math.

You are some kid living in your mom's basement, and no is getting fooled.

Has anyone else noticed this? He talks of humans as if he isn't one? As if he's some superior being that can barely spell or punctuate?



[edit on 4-4-2008 by Sublime620]

Originally posted by Sublime620
You've already once said .999999 "doesn't exist"

I never once said that, so you need to stop mis quoting. Thanks.

The FACT still stands..

If you start with 1 whole, the only way to get to .9... is to subract. That means .9... is less than 1.

1 divided by 3 = .3...
2 divided by 3 = .6...
3 divided by 3 = 1

If you say 3/3 = .9... you are just lying to yourself. You are missing .0...1

1 - .9 = .1
1 - .99 = .01
1 - .999 = .001
1 - .999... = .000...1