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.9 repeating = 1? Is our numerical system flawed?

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posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 02:35 AM
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Originally posted by Sublime620
But even then:

.999999999... eventually = 1

So more realistically:

1 - .99999999... = 0

That's theory, though.


Why on Earth do you keep saying .9... evetually = 1???

IT DOESN'T. It eventually continues on forever as .9... it never EVER reaches one. IT IS A FRACTION OF 1.

1 - .9... = .0...1

To get your calculator to say .9... when you start with 1, you will have to subtract .0...1

1 - .0...1 = .9...

TO SUBTRACT FROM ONE. MEANS IT IS LESS THAN ONE.

1 != .9...
1 > .9...




posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 02:39 AM
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reply to post by Sublime620
 


I already know your guy's twisted logic.

Because you were spoon fed that:

1/3 = .3...

You think that 3/3 = .9...

LOL

Sorry, but .3... is not an accurate representation of 1/3. Also, .9... is not an accurate representation of 3/3. The accurate representation for 3/3 is 1.




[edit on 4-4-2008 by ALLis0NE]

[edit on 4-4-2008 by ALLis0NE]



posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 02:40 AM
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Originally posted by ALLis0NE
Why on Earth do you keep saying .9... evetually = 1???

IT DOESN'T. It eventually continues on forever as .9... it never EVER reaches one. IT IS A FRACTION OF 1.

1 - .9... = .0...1

To get your calculator to say .9... when you start with 1, you will have to subtract .0...1

1 - .0...1 = .9...

TO SUBTRACT FROM ONE. MEANS IT IS LESS THAN ONE.

1 != .9...
1 > .9...


You have truely shown your incompitence in the past 2 posts.

First let's investigate this post here:

1 - .000000000000000000000001... = 1

You aren't subtracting anything. Anything less, such as:

1 - .00000000000000000000001

This isn't infinite. So it's not relevant.


Originally posted by ALLis0NE

Your calculator is a p.o.s. if you got 1 instead of .9...


So you admit that .333333333333333... x 3 = .999999999999999

Since .333333333 = 1/3 (it does, do the math in your head)

1/3 * 3 = 3/3 = 1

It's 1.

Scientific calculator wins again.

*Edited:

Just to preempt you from saying 1/3 can't be represented in decimal form.

1/3 hmmm

well, 3 x .33 = .99

Not enough.

3 x .333 = .999

3 x .3333 = .9999

It keeps going. That's why it's infinite.

[edit on 4-4-2008 by Sublime620]



posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 02:43 AM
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reply to post by ALLis0NE
 


So there is no way to represet 1/3 in decimal form?

Honestly, you can't believe that.

Someone ban this troll. I'm done mentally abusing you.

**Edited:

I'd add this guy to my foes list, but it says "respected foes".


[edit on 4-4-2008 by Sublime620]



posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 02:45 AM
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Originally posted by Sublime620
So you admit that .333333333333333... x 3 = .999999999999999...


Yes, .3... x 3 = .9...

I agree.



Originally posted by Sublime620
Since .333333333 = 1/3 (it does, do the math in your head)


I DO NOT AGREE, THAT 1/3 = .3...

This is your flaw, and the flaw of the numerical system.



posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 02:47 AM
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"So there is no way to represet 1/3 in decimal form?"


Nope there is no correct way to represent 1/3 in decimal form. Actually if I use your very own logic, even YOU don't have a representation of 1/3 because .3... is not a real number.

[edit on 4-4-2008 by ALLis0NE]



posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 02:50 AM
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Originally posted by ALLis0NE
You are right, there is no way to represent 1/3 in decimal form. Actually, using your very own logic, even YOUR representation for 1/3 doesn't exist.

.3... is not a real number.


One last post. Couldn't miss this blaring contradiction:

He just said .333333... is not a real number. Yet before, his amazing theory to proved that .0000000000000...1 existed:


Originally posted by ALLis0NE
1 - .9 = .1

1 - .99 = .01

1 - .999 = .001

1 - .9999 = .0001

1 - .99999 = .00001

1 - .999999 = .000001

1 - .9999999 = .0000001

1 - .99999999... = .00000000...1


The chart above proves the existance of .0...1

Basicly it is the faith that the pattern will continue. I'm sorry you don't have faith.


Tisk tisk. Pick a stance and stick with it. Either infinite exist, or they don't. Make up your mind (not that it will help you win, you just won't look as foolish).

[edit on 4-4-2008 by Sublime620]



posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 02:54 AM
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Originally posted by Sublime620

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
You are right, there is no way to represent 1/3 in decimal form. Actually, using your very own logic, even YOUR representation for 1/3 doesn't exist.

.3... is not a real number.


One last post. Couldn't miss this blaring contradiction:

He just said .333333... is not a real number. Yet before, his amazing theory to proved that .0000000000000...1 existed:


Tisk tisk. Pick a stance and stick with it. Either infinite exist, or they don't. Make up your mind (not that it will help you win, you just won't look as foolish).


Maybe you should learn to read, then you wouldn't look so foolish. I clearly said "USING YOUR LOGIC" in that post.



posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 02:57 AM
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It is YOUR logic that infinity doesn't end.

So when you say .3... is a valid representation of 1/3, you basicly contradict yourself.

If I have 1/3 of something, that means I have a begining and end of a fraction. In your logic, infinity doesn't end, so how can .3... equal something that does have an end?

Your logic is flawed.

[edit on 4-4-2008 by ALLis0NE]



posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 03:07 AM
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Originally posted by 00Einstein
Anyway, the 1 cannot exist on the end of that number. You cannot say that it started as 0.1 and you simply added zeroes in the middle infinitely, and now is infinitely growing. A NUMBER CANNOT GROW! It is static.


1 - .9 = .1

1 - .99 = .01

1 - .999 = .001

1 - .9999 = .0001

1 - .99999 = .00001

1 - .999999 = .000001

1 - .9999999 = .0000001

1 - .99999999... = .00000000...1

Do you see now what I mean by growing? Because the mathematic calculation has ended (i already know there is a one at the end), then all that is left to calculate is how many zeros are needed. Basicly, you do the math first, THEN you add infinity.



You say "a number can not grow, its static".

So you are saying that .9... (infinite) is static?



[edit on 4-4-2008 by ALLis0NE]

[edit on 4-4-2008 by ALLis0NE]

[edit on 4-4-2008 by ALLis0NE]



posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 03:53 AM
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You know I can argue until page 50 that the moon is a square and eventually all of my adversaries will leave me, but that does not mean that the moon is square.

Cya allisone.



posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 04:13 AM
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Yes .999... is static.

The universe is infinity, it is boundless, it begins no where and it ends no where. It is a static eternity yet its energies and physical material states are constantly morphing and changing, and that constance of morph and change never stops, thus it is a static change, but static nonetheless. (stars exploding, people dying and rotting into the Earth, plants taking in carbon dioxide and releasing oxygen... etc. It is always changing and morphing, perfectly, but never does it lose anything... it is always infinite and never finite... or even to say EVER finite... would still mean that it is infinite... even if you consider it to be an infinite finite)

To take "one whole", such as an apple... you are only taking a piece of the infinite that it exists of (the universe), thus .999... can equally be said to be seen as 1.

In this case let's call the universe 1, or infinity. If I take 1 apple from infinity, for reasons of conceptual understanding, let's say that the universe has just been "lessened" to .999... because I took the apple from it, but in actuality it is still infinite, it has now only morphed from an infinite one to an infinite .999.. . I can never and ever take the apple away from the universe, even if I eat it or smash it... it will always be here... it may become compost in the ground and serve as nutrient rich soil for shrubs. Or I may consume it and in my body it is used for fuel... but the energy of the apple, that which is eternal, is never lost... it is always mutating.

Do you understand that 1 - 0.999... is not 0.000...1. It is, in effect... 0 and 1. The 9's never stop subtracting and adding, thus the 1 is always existing in an infinitey static state of change and the sum is never and ever defined.

The moon is round.

That's my last post. (unless) If you wish to prove that the moon is square (metaphor) then go ahead, but by all means provide some type of legible criteria and mathematically legit formula... and then I will happily concede to your points. (though I am 100% confident that you can not take what I just typed and prove it wrong in any way.)

P.s. You also like to use the circle analogy for infinity (or did earlier in this post). Well, fine. Pi is an infinite number, if I take 1/3 of that I MUST be left with an infinite number. See how this corrolates? Pi is the ratio of the circumfrence to the diameter.

If I take 1/3 of a circle I must have an infinite fractional ration of that circle (according to your infinitely small and infinitely large theory). Or would you now agree that a circle is not infinite and that it can be constructed to be whole of any limited number of whole parts and thus it IS whole? Or would you say that it can be constructed of any unlimited number of whole parts? If you agree that a circle can be infinitely sliced then because of this possibility no one part can be total in nature because its potential (and within itself) is infinite and mathematically, in some way, it must be able to state this. So every 1 = infinity, even the parts because they can be infinitely sliced smaller or infinitely expanded larger (according to your theory)

And if you agree to the above, that one circle can be sliced an infinite amount of times, then you MUST agree that 1 = infinity and in doing so you must also concede that 1 = .999... (infinity). (p.s. a decimal point means nothing to an infinitely repeating number, it is simply infinite... thus in a sense it is larger than one.)

[edit on 4-4-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]



posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 04:45 AM
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reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
 


Oh please stop preaching to me about the universe. You are truely speaking to the wrong person about that. Because everything you are saying, is known. I don't think you understand my level of understanding of the universe, and you are mistaking me for a simple child of man.

You are now repeating what I have already said. Why are you creating a diversion? You are trying to tell me that .9... can also (in itself) be called ONE because it too is a single thing. But you are double counting.

You are basicly saying, for example:

You have 1 apple, you cut it into 9 slices, and you give each slice to 9 kids. Then you ask them, "how many pieces do you have children?" They reply "ONE".

That is basicly how childish you all seem.



[edit on 4-4-2008 by ALLis0NE]



posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 04:55 AM
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nevermind

sorry for this post.

i retract it


[edit on 4-4-2008 by ALLis0NE]



posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 04:58 AM
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Originally posted by ALLis0NE
I don't think you understand my level of understanding of the universe, and you are mistaking me for a simple child of man.


Nope, I understand everything that you've said. EVERYTHING. As for you feeling that I think of you as a child, I'm sorry that you feel that way. Maybe you're venting your inner most fears because the only person in this thread yet to call anyone children is yourself, and I think only a fearful child would have to do that.


You are now repeating what I have already said. Why are you creating a diversion? You are trying to tell me that .9... can also (in itself) be called ONE because it too is a single thing. But you are double counting.

You are basicly saying, for example:

You have 1 apple, you cut it into 9 slices, and you give each slice to 9 kids. Then you ask them, "how many pieces do you have children?" They reply "ONE".

That is basicly how childish you all seem.


Yeah, that's sort of what I'm saying, but not exactly. Read it again. And if you read closely you'll see that I'm saying exactly what you're saying. As for the continuous child comments trying to belittle us... it really doesn't serve any progress in proving your point, it only shows the essence of your character and if anything, thwarts a moving forth of your supposed ideology.

When you understand that one apple is only a fraction of the universe, then you'll know of what you so poorly speak of and are so loosely holding onto and unconfident in that you must slander others characters instead of sticking to the math and the reality of the physical existence, that which mathematics is of and always has been and will be of.

[edit on 4-4-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]



posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 05:06 AM
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Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
When you understand that one apple is only an fraction of the universe, then you'll know of what you so poorly speak of and are so loosely holding onto and unconfident in that you must slander others characters instead of sticking to the math.



There you go again, "when you understand that..", when you say that you are trying to think that I don't understand that. You are treating me as a child.

Do you not see my name? ALLis0NE?

I think you need to practice what YOU preach. Because when YOU understand that one apple is only A fraction of the universe, then you will understand why .9... will always be LESS THAN 1.

.9... is the apple, 1 is the universe.



posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 05:14 AM
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Originally posted by ALLis0NE
.9... is the apple, 1 is the universe.


I don't preach anything but the truth, but playing the finger pointing game and who said what first will only cause a circle of insult.

Here's some basic logic.

If a=b and b=c, then a=c.

If the apple IS the universe and you call the apple .999..., and 1 is also the universe and the universe is infinite, then .999... = 1.

If .999...=apple, apple=universe, and universe = 1 (therefore 1 = infinity), then apple = 1, .999...=1.

The universe and the apple are not separate entities. They are each other, as you are too.

For bodes of ease let's call the universe energy and in doing so let's recognize that EVERYTHING is energy.

(When you clearly demonstrate that you don't understand something then that is all that I have to go off of. For future reference I'm going to start taking quotes from other posts and placing them in these posts so I can put them in front of your face to see... maybe you NEED to be treated like a child? Though let's hope not.)

[edit on 4-4-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]



posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 05:21 AM
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I was metaphorically speaking when I said that .9... is the apple and 1 is the universe. Obviously you didn't get the analogy.

Think of 1 as the universe. EVERYTHING that exists, is inside of this 1 universe. One of those things that exists inside of this universe, is .9...

That means, .9... will ALWAYS be less than 1.

The only thing that equals 1 is ALL.

.9... is only a fraction of ALL.

It will always be less than 1.

.9... < 1




[edit on 4-4-2008 by ALLis0NE]



posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 05:31 AM
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signature
"Infinity Ends, you just will never reach it."


This is also a blatant lie and a fallacy.

The end of infinity can not be reached by any one EVER, because it does not end.

You can not absolutely prognosticate infinity except to foretell that it will never end and never began. One last time.

INFINITY DOES NOT END AND DOES NOT BEGIN.

Here you go, maybe you need to look at some definitions. This should refresh your mind.

INFINITY:
4. an infinite extent, amount, or number.
5. an indefinitely great amount or number.
6. Mathematics. a. the assumed limit of a sequence, series, etc., that increases without bound.
b. infinite distance or an infinitely distant part of space.

See that? It never ends and never begins... now what you are ATTEMPTING to articulate is this but you keep calling it infinity.

FINITE:
1. having bounds or limits; not infinite; measurable.
2. Mathematics. a. (of a set of elements) capable of being completely counted.
b. not infinite or infinitesimal.
c. not zero.

See that? I guess it can be hard to confuse the 2
? See the difference in the verbiage? One word contains the prefix In-, meaning not. Therefore Infinite is saying... I am not finite. Got it? A little easier to understand now?

There it is, right in front of your face, the very definitions themselves.


This is like trying to tell someone that a triangle has 3 points and they are telling you that it's really a square! Well, go ahead and argue until no one wants to help you anymore, all alone. But maybe that's the way it's supposed to be! We all live different lives and have different paths.

[edit on 4-4-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]



posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 05:39 AM
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Originally posted by ALLis0NE
I was metaphorically speaking when I said that .9... is the apple and 1 is the universe. Obviously you didn't get the analogy.


Obviously I did.


Think of 1 as the universe. EVERYTHING that exists, is inside of this 1 universe. One of those things that exists inside of this universe, is .9...


You can not be INSIDE of a thing that is INFINITE because it has no walls, no boundaries! No, everything that exists is of this one universe, or in other words of this ONE INFINITY.


That means, .9... will ALWAYS be less than 1.


No, it doesn't.


The only thing that equals 1 is ALL.


No, untrue! Infinity is only itself, there is only ONE universe! That one universe is infinite!


.9... is only a fraction of ALL.


The all you speak of is only a fraction of infinity and .999... is infinite or also known as 0!


It will always be less than 1.


WRONG.


.9... < 1


WRONG.

[edit on 4-4-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]




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