Jesus can not be both

TenPin,

Well said, wisdom has spoken.

Somewhere,

Nice use of ACE, showing your true colors. Well my friend, I could not find any logic, meaning or support for your claims in your post, I think maybe you are not well in the head. I would think someone so highly educated could put forth a clear statement, rather than babble. I mean, it should not be hard for you to show everyone the fruit of your education, as you are doing battle with a donkey. Nevertheless, it is interesting that you argue from authority, your own no less, rather than reason. Not only this, but you have run wide quite wide of the boundaries, of the topic, showing your inability to stay on target, and proving the strength of my point.
You blaspheme the Most Holy Mother of God, without reason, stating she is not the most pure Virgin, that she is. This is not relevant to the topic of “…he cannot be both…”. It only shows the depth of hate, you have for mankind, for you have never met this woman, she has done you no wrong, nor is her virginity in question here, but the genes, of her son. Full of hate that you, cannot be God. As is your master, Satan. Father like son. You claim Clement is a liar, without reason. If men can be called liars without, reason, then how much more can you be called one, a lair. You even went so far as to say, who is St. John the Evangelist? If this is the case, then who might you be, that anyone listen to you? He was witness, of the life Jesus Christ, but your “highly educated mind” is only capable of removing your own authority. For when you say this man has not right to speak, then neither do you.

Originally posted by HIFIGUYI can assure you that Biblical doctrine is indeed divinely inspired. And while the words may not be exact, * they are damm close.

is it or is it not?

You:-

The Bible is a worldly document divinely inspired and * written in error. It has missing text, mis translated meanings and words, and cultural slang and additions. For one to beleive that the Bible is a perfect text is not seeing the truth.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Dont worry about the text. Live the text. The text is divinely inspired, *and corrupted through babyl.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I suppose every inspired book in the bible could be considered theory *as my thoughts are also inspired.

I feel that the mere condition of the ancient scriptures and all of the confusion in the translation, the lost pieces, removed books, angry words, separation of man by faith, elevation of one over the other according to ones knowledge of the Bible, etc etc, Speaks for itself. Its not a living document, it was supposed to be a document about good living. But man blended his culture with the inspiration.

Id offer to the following conclusion:

That damm book has caused more wars in the name of self righteousness, and *its time we toss the thing...

Those that read with their eyes and reason with their heart and have no bias, will be guided by wisdom, and not by a manual.

It is a way of being. And that my brothers and sisters, is the difference between what I write, and the inspired writings of the bible.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

There is no hell. But the lord may deem that you can go and seek comfort with your bible. And as you sit, waitng to enter the gates of heaven, page by page, you will destroy your worldy volumes as it becomes apparent that * scripture is not the path, but actions towards your fellow man. No Bible will offer witness to the gates of heaven as clarity of thought, truth, and love for all are the true keys to eternity.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Ill say it once, Ill say it again. * Live the words, dont read them...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The mere absense of women writers in the Bible should stand testimony that *man has sculpted this book in the Glory of man…
Before the fire starts, Im not saying that is not a usefull text. But can we say its a perfect document with obvious ommisions of the womans input in history?

www.abovetopsecret.com...



*=contradiction

I think you need to revamp your screed and take a stand, you cannot have it both ways.

Originally posted by Balaams donkey

Somewhere, Nice use of ACE, showing your true colors.

First, I wish to point out that you are yet to show where I said the church fathers said what you said I said they said. Avoidance is a great sign of weakness donkey, you have been allotted three chances to provide same and have failed at all. Peter redux?

Nice use of ACE, showing your true colors.

Whatever you need tell yourself.

Well my friend, I could not find any logic, meaning or support for your claims in your post…

Am I surprised? You are still convulsing over your being stymied with your explanation as to your church fathers’ comment.

I think maybe you are not well in the head. I would think someone so highly educated could put forth a clear statement, rather than babble

I am either crushed by this un-wellness comment or I deem it to be one of evasion put forth by someone who has no intellectual response and must then resort to petty insult to hide his embarrassment. Considering that I am very certain it is the latter, I am not surprised at the response I elicit.

I mean, it should not be hard for you to show everyone the fruit of your education, as you are doing battle with a donkey.

Now that is telling. If that is what you perceive yourself to be, then I would suggest the “not well in the head” is your view of your own countenance.

Nevertheless, it is interesting that you argue from authority, your own no less, rather than reason. Not only this, but you have run wide quite wide of the boundaries, of the topic, showing your inability to stay on target, and proving the strength of my point.

I have now indulged your platitudes for not only several posts but several witless comments thus far on this. Obviously you have no rebuttals and choose instead fatuous commentary with which to mask your absence of countering argument.

You blaspheme the Most Holy Mother of God,

Ah, a new diversion, fine. No I do not blaspheme her for no reason, it is first and foremost for you to show why I blaspheme her, and since you cannot, let me drive my point home. Marianme was no virgin, nor was she the mother of any begotten son of God. At best, she was a woman, and he a deluded man who had no compunction to slay his fellow Jews.

Now I prefer to live in reality, donkey, not the fantasy of a 2,000 year old mind controlling dogma which by virtue of its proponents would prefer that all of mankind become willing servants to induced delirium, and enslavers who look for asses and mindless sheep willing to be told what to do, when to do it and how to be led.

Your Christos was what he was, a thief, seditionist, murderer and by the new label of today; a terrorist.

You claim Clement is a liar, without reason.

Not good enough donkey. Prove your point. It is either you have something of substance to offer or nothing at all, for such dismissal is vacuous.

You even went so far as to say, who is St. John the Evangelist? If this is the case, then who might you be,

Very good question, the first you have proffered in fact. I am one who is far more knowledgeable than you in all things biblical plus some. I know this because I have reduced you to blathering avoidance of the topic at hand, such that the usual tactic when one cannot respond cognitively to the topic, is then forced to counter with superficial attacks to the poster. That would be you, donkey, in case you are in doubt of whom I speak. I do not portray myself as an ass or any other animal, such stupidity is best left for those who wallow in an inferiority complex with a bent toward sarcasm.

that anyone listen to you?

I have no need to have anyone advise me that my words cause others to think donkey, I see it in the posts. Read my signature, I am not here to think for anyone, but I am here with the hope that I cause others to think, and when I see my thoughts reflected elsewhere, or that they have given rise to questions, I am pleased with my performance.


Now do you wish to get back on topic or do you insist I assault your senses?

Somewhere,
Well that is better, you have giving us something to work with. I must say it as least you put up a fight, you are incorrect in the promotion of lies, but a least you hang in there. Most people give up when they are incorrect.

We can easily see that the first point “…he cannot be both..” has be soundly defeated, by the lack of any challenge. I would never expect haters of God to be so honorable as to admit defeat openly, as they are not seekers of Truth.

somewhere:

Id offer to the following conclusion: That damm book has caused more wars in the name of self righteousness, and *its time we toss the thing...

How silly! Surely you have more reason than this?
First, lets say I listened to your arguments, believed you and then ran around killing everyone, whom I thought disagreed with my interpretation of your arguments, would that mean it is, your fault?

Secondly, this claim is so old and so dumb I am shocked someone so educated as yourself would bring it forth.

Let see total deaths of the Crusades: They, could hardly be followers of Christ, but for argument sake:

Albegensian Crudade: 5 million
The Crusades: 5 million
Thrity year war: 8 million
Conquest for Americas (Spainish) 20 million: mainly disease
Now, not one of these can be related to the teachings of the Holy Bible, but rather people like you(somewhere) lying about it.

Now lets take a look at Godlessness in the 20 century alone: The when can see what happens when you throw that book in the trash as you suggested. Furthermore, even more would have did if it not be for Christians ending these wars. Let us remember the U.S was late and undesirous of entering into WWI or WWII. These killings below are only part of the totals:

The First and Second World Wars, Communist China and the Soviet Union -- which together account for maybe ¾ of all deaths by atrocity in the 20th Century.

First World War (1914-18): 15 000 000
U.S. War Dept. in Feb. 1924, amended by the Statistical Services Center, Office of the Secretary of Defense

Russian Civil War (1917-22): 9 000 000
Readers Companion to Military History, Cowley and Parker, eds. (1996)

Stalain: Davies, Norman (Europe A History, 1998): c. 50 million killed 1924-53, excluding WW2 war losses.

Hilter: Guiness World Records: 56.4M WWII
Hilter:: 20,946,000 democides Rummel (the killing of Jew, Polls, soviets in airraids, Homosexuals: Rummel: 220,000
Euthanasia of Handicapped Hugh G. Gallagher: 275,000, citing Breggin (in Century of Genocide, Samuel Totten, ed., (1997)

Pol Pot Regime (also in "The Cambodian Genocide", Century of Genocide: Eyewitness Accounts and Critical Views, Samuel Totten, editor, 1997) estimates 1,671,000 (21%) killed out of a population of 7,890,000

Mao Zedong's regime ,People's Republic of China, (1949-1975): 40 000 000
Agence France Press (25 Sept. 1999) citing at length from Courtois, Stephane, Le Livre Noir du Communism:

Tibet (1950 et seq.): 600 000

The war on the unborn:
Abortions:
29,247,142 legal abortions were performed in the United States, 1970-95. (Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, Vol. 47 No. SS-2)
Estimated abortions worldwide: 527M to 836M (1920-2000)

Murder rate:
USA 1960-96: 666,160 murders and (non-negligent) manslaughters (Statistical Abstract of the United States

Deaths from Gun Control:
This is just part of the known tally ...
In 1929 the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, approximately 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915-1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, the mentally ill, and others, who were unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million "educated" people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

That places total victims who lost their lives because of gun control at approximately 56 million in the last century. Since we should learn from the mistakes of history, the next time someone talks in favor of gun control, find out which group of citizens they wish to have exterminated.

If you add all of that up since the introduction of Atheism, you get over a Billion. We wont mention rape, human experiments, slave labor and so on. I noticed you forgot to mention the Koran, and the deaths from Islam. You don’t see Christians beheading people and praising God.
Now, look how far off topic you have taken all of this? So much, for your arguments, oh great and wise Atheists. Put another one up so we can blow it out of the water too.
Governments kill more of their own people than wars do, Wars kill more people then criminals do. Arm the masses. To protect ourselves from men like (somewhere). Lord have mercy on us all.

Not good enough donkey. Prove your point. It is either you have something of substance to offer or nothing at all, for such dismissal is vacuous.

I must say somewhere, you have brought new meaning to the word hypocrisy. You were asked for substance, you were called on this, and now you use the tactic of saying my question of your empty statement is in question because of your emptyness. Lo, what the Prophets have said it true; They dig themselves a pit to throw them selves in.

First, I wish to point out that you are yet to show where I said the church fathers said what you said I said they said. Avoidance is a great sign of weakness donkey, you have been allotted three chances to provide same and have failed at all. Peter redux?

Peter redux? Good greif, are you interested? You are in more trouble than at first thought.

somewhereinbetween Post Number: 1267965 (post id: 1289858) quote
What you witness is a decided late 1st century addition of his genealogy to show the Jews that Jesus was their messiah. It was not until well into the 2nd century that Jesus was actually being painted as the begotten son of god, and, or, word. Hence, the conflicting account. The majority of Jews did not fall for the Davidic line, so the redactors and church fathers carried on with his divine conception to woo the gentiles outside of Jerusalem.

When one follows the writings of the EARLY CHRUCH FATHERS, where one is well acquainted with the NT, it can clearly be seen the additions to the 4 gospels, as well as a correlation to the surfacing of the epistles addressing the issues as the debate raged.

In plain sight, EARLY CHRUCH FATHERS, what is you problem? All you did is say lies, about what you wish they said, you never posted the quote.Because, it does not exist, and you wish that people will bow down to your self-proclaimed godhood, and not question you, too bad. I am not going to post everything written by Clement, just to show that he never said it. The burden of proof is on you, you know, and you ain't got it.

Now, you and your fellows have lost, you will never quit your bickering, as it is all you have. Everyone here has seen the emptiness of your arguments.
No one has brought forth any reason, as to"...he can not be both..." thus, the claim once again, has been proven true that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, born of a Virgin from the house of David. Even if some, continue to tear thier clothes, blaspheme and throw dirt in the air. I would surmise that you would continue until the end of time. So, it will be foolish to continue proving my point endlessly. If you can ever offer any facts please notify me. I came here to defend God with has been done.
What is most interesting about you is your emptiness, you know you are wrong, which is why you spend so much time attacking others instead of worring about your own faith. Notice we don't attack you, only simply defend Christ, no one cares what you belive, because it is empty, this why no one attacks you. You have nothing but lies. Jesus Christ is the king of Israel, repent while you can. God is merciful.

Psalms 74:9 We see not our signs: there is no more any prophet: neither is there among us any that knoweth how long.
Psalms 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

1 Kings 18:21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.

You see this is exactly the damn problem...The donkey Hides behind questions he has an answer to and mysteriously forgets those he hasn't, then he refers back to the original question to divert attention away from the natural progression of the thread in the vain hope of convincing the wider world that he is a well rounded, open minded individual and not the flag bearer of blind faith he most certainly is.

Then we get some Random Christian whose being paid £5 per Conversion jabbering on about how Jesus is 100% God and we should all believe that and listen to him because he "Knows that for fact" and the rest of us are just lost sheep wandering in the desert and on the other hand we have Somewhere who I don't agree with all the way by any means but at least their is reason behind his words which is more then can be said for most.

The donkey seems to think that I should prove to him that the bible is not an unbias document but quite frankly anyone with any degree of common sense would be fully aware that it is a bias documents....of course it is....It's the bloody Christian Bible for Christs sake....you can't really get more bias then a Religious guidebook can you?

Too many people on this forum are hiding behind Faith and I don't think that is a valid or acceptable device....other folks have researched, read and studied while the "Believers" speel Bible Quotations, pipe on about Jesus and God as if their is no doubt whatsover that they exist/existed and then imply that anyone who doesn't embrace the word will char boil in holy hell for all eternity.

It's a strange thing...I fear very little in this world but what I do fear is Christians in positions of power...to think that there are people in the world so convinced that the Bible is the word of God and that a guy on a cross died to save their sins 2000 years ago....It scares me that people can believe to such andextent that they can base their whole lives around "alleged events" and not accept any evidence that contary their beliefs and just sweep it under the carpet.

The quoting of the deaths in war Donkey due to the the lack of faith in the 20th century....I mean please...Shall we get into the Missionaries destroying thousand of years of culture all over the word by indoctering tribes and civilisations...shall we forget about Cortez ravaging the Aztec culture...shall we forget about Catholics buring Protestants and Protestants burning Catholics over interpretations of a F*cking book wriiten by Christians....shall we forget about Spanish Inquisition...shall we forget about familes and towns torn apart in Ireland?

I don't know...all this is damn frustrating stuff....and the more I read in this forum the more I think that Faith is a terrible thing and restricts good, intelligent people from rational thought.

It's pity...so much potential wasted because of a bunch of rumours and stories...


[edit on 27-3-2005 by BobDylan]

First read the bible and make your own choice on if God is or is not real. If you decide he is not real, then live you life the way animals do. A male dominate "alpha" and a herd of females with offspring. Only the male dominate gets to have sex with the females. The young "beta" males wait until they are strong enough to either challenge the alpha and take over the herd or he leaves creating his own herd. Live life as only the strong survive and the old and weak get left behind to die. Without God then we don't need hospitals or retirement homes. There would only be anarchy.

With God then you have laws and love and compassion. You need hospitals and retirement homes. And laws are what we live by. Only in America can the 10 commandments be seen as invasive and outdated. The only people complaining about the existance of God are the pagans and gays. Who are you?

You truly are hopelessly devoid of remedial skills. You were given three chances to support your accusation and have failed miserably to do so, and you have failed because these words of yours:

I have read volumes of the Early Church Fathers, they say no such thing…

have no basis in fact and were obviously tossed out because of your discombobulated thinking.

Originally posted by Balaams donkeyyou are incorrect in the promotion of lies, but a least you hang in there. Most people give up when they are incorrect.

A tip for you donkey; telling someone they have lied carries no weight, you must prove they have lied, to do anything else is to just spout rhetoric in the hopes of shouting down your opponent. Your defense is not just weak, it is as I have already told you, fatuous.

And I want to show you once more just how weak and devoid of remedial skills you are. Your post 1275424 attributes the following statement to me[quote: somewhere:

Id offer to the following conclusion: That damm book has caused more wars in the name of self righteousness, and *its time we toss the thing...That was a statement made by Hifiguy1 as noted in my post.

Considering all of the times you have read words that were not there, made accusations that you cannot back, and cannot even attribute quotes correctly, how can we possibly expect you get anything right at all? We cannot, and so will also add the following to your repertoire of misguided analyses.

Now, you and your fellows have lost, you will never quit your bickering, as it is all you have. Everyone here has seen the emptiness of your arguments.
No one has brought forth any reason, as to"...he can not be both..." thus, the claim once again, has been proven true that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, born of a Virgin from the house of David.

Bob & Somewhere....you are supposed to prove ".... he cannot be both..". You have not you lose. It has been fun. I got bigger fish to fry than the likes of ye.
Oh, bobby, if I was being paid, to post, there be a lot more posts than this on here. You two are loony.

Arthur: I win! We thank you Lord, that in your mercy...
Black Knight: Come on then.
Arthur: What?
Black Knight: Have at you!
Arthur: You are indeed brave, Sir Knight, but the fight is mine.
Black Knight: Oh, had enough, eh?
Arthur: Look, you stupid fool, you've got no arms left.
Black Knight: Yes I have.
Arthur: Look!
Black Knight: Just a flesh wound.
Arthur: Look, stop that.
Black Knight: Chicken! Chicken!
Arthur: Look, I'll have your leg. Right!


Arthur cuts off the Black Knight's leg.


Black Knight: Right, I'll do you for that!
Arthur: You'll what?
Black Knight: Come 'ere!
Arthur: What are you going to do, bleed on me?
Black Knight: I'm invincible!
Arthur: You're a loony.
Black Knight: The Black Knight always triumphs! Have at you! Come on then.

Arthur cuts off the Black Knight's other leg.


Black Knight: All right; we'll call it a draw.
Arthur: Come, Patsy.
Black Knight: Oh, oh, I see, running away then. You yellow coward! Come back here and take what's coming to you. I'll bite your legs off!

(Quotes from Monty Python and the Holy Grail) look a referance, how he do that?

walhallamarbil,

That's a cool tool, what is it, it looks like .308. Where can I get one? Certianly not in the U.K., they are not allowed to play with guns. Can't be trusted. Must cost about $10/sec to use.

Nice post. see bobby for your 5 bucks.

Originally posted by Balaams donkey
Bob & Somewhere....you are supposed to prove ".... he cannot be both..".

On the contrary, it is Christianity claiming he is both, it is up to Christianity to prove that he is both. You cannot save to say that he is, which is met with he is not. You have no proof and you have no logic to back this assertion, whereas I have logic to back mine: God is god, the creator, master, all powerful. Your story goes that he sent some mortal into a small territory to claim he was in fact God. This mortal ran and hid when he was hunted. Does God have a need to do this? Your god is an impotent god, for were he the real God all he had to do to prove himself was to appear simultaneously to every nation at that time, declare in a loud and thundering voice who he was and why man should be beholden to him. But no, your impotent god was too stupid to do this.

Your god decided that he needed to prove to Israel that he was of the house of David, whereas, the real God needs to prove no such thing since he created David. Your god decided that a virgin would give birth to god himself, whereas the real God can just materialize, wherever he wants to, whenever he wants to and to whomever he wants to.

Your god was the manifestation of ignorant people.


[edit on 3/28/05 by SomewhereinBetween]