Hello all and welcome to my first post.

I've been reading quite a bit on this webpage so far and my interest in the masons is beginning to become more and more defined, but there's still one thing that I'm confused about. Why is it that so many people feel that masons are trying to take over the world. In my opinion, the Masons seem like almost any other fraternity (College or otherwise). That's not to say that they're generic and not unique, but what I mean to ask is why more and more people aren't yelling about all of the College Fraternities trying to take over the world, while they feel the Masons are the root of all evil.

Anyway, thanks for putting up with my first post and I hope to be around awhile

nufan

Originally posted by nmuxfpaxn
I've been reading quite a bit on this webpage so far and my interest in the masons is beginning to become more and more defined, but there's still one thing that I'm confused about. Why is it that so many people feel that masons are trying to take over the world. In my opinion, the Masons seem like almost any other fraternity (College or otherwise). That's not to say that they're generic and not unique, but what I mean to ask is why more and more people aren't yelling about all of the College Fraternities trying to take over the world, while they feel the Masons are the root of all evil.

Welcome. Freemasonry is not like any other college fraternity, or otherwise. It differes GREATLY because of its use of symbols, allegory and rituals to convey its lesson and to structure masons out of ordinary men.

The brotherhood part is very much like any fraternity, except I think (and I might be a little biased) that masons have a much stronger bond due to their common experiences during these rituals and their common knowledge of symbols, words and signs.

As far as taking over the world, people think that's the case because a lot of politicians, presidents, and such have been and are Freemasons. It's all silly and I don't even want to go into it, when peoplle who claim they are "thinking men" become so ignorant that they believe these absurd fairy tales, well... it doesnt get any more comic than that.

There's many GOOD and VALID resources for doing your masonic research on the internet. Just avoid Freemasonry.com, Ephesians5-11.org and MurderingMasons.com. They all have an agenda to support and will lead you away from the correct path of research, one based on fact and evidence (not supposition, circumstance and assumption).

1. What sebatwerk said, and fairy tales are good too, especially the fractured ones.

2. Skull & Bones is one of the more unusual "college fraternities" (no Masonic ties at all) worth looking at in terms of its ties to recent "presidents" and presidential candidates, and just why did they codename George W Bush "temporary", anyway?

People believe Freemasons are part of a conspiracy because we read the writings of Freemasons.

S&B did not code name Bush Temporary. He never chose a name for himself, so the name temporary was put on his paperwork. It ended up attached to him, and S&B had to come up with another filler name. Bondo?

Manly P. Hall; The Secret Destiny Of America; Pages 23-24:
Order of the Quest; Enlightened Humans
Years of research among the records of olden peoples available in libraries, museums, and shrines of ancient cultures, has convinced me that there exists in the world today, and has existed for thousands of years, a body of enlightened humans united in what might be termed, an Order of the Quest. It is composed of those whose intellectual and spiritual perceptions have revealed to them that civilization has a Secret Destiny-secret, I say, because this high purpose is not realized by the many; the great masses of peoples still live along without any knowledge whatsoever that they are part of a Universal Motion in time and space.

Manly P. Hall; Americas Assignment With Destiny; Page 112: Great Plan
Those sensitive to subtle values will find positive indications of fortuitous intervention if they care to seek for them. The landmarks are not obvious to the profane, but years of familiarity with the proportions of the project enable the thoughtful to recognize the systematic unfoldment of the Great Plan. The truth is more obvious among those peoples whose religions acknowledge the existence of an invisible government. This has always been concealed in the descent of the Western Mystery religion.

Manly P. Hall; The Lost Keys of Freemasonry; Page 66: The Plan
The true Master Mason enters his lodge with one thought uppermost in his mind: "How can I, as
an individual, be of greater use in the Universal Plan?

Manly P. Hall; The Lost Keys of Freemasonry; Page 67: Plan, Bounds Of Time & Space
The true brother of the Craft ... has a duty and that duty is to fit into the plans of another. He must be ready at any hour of the day or night to drop his own ideals at the call of the Builder. The work must be done and he has dedicated his life to the service of those who know the bonds of neither time nor space.

C.W. Leadbeater; Freemasonry: Its Ancient and Mystic Rites; Page 13: The Plan
The powers that stand behind Freemasonry are great and holy, and it is but right that they should be conferred in their fullness only upon those who are likely to use them as they should be used and to treat them with the reverence they deserve. There is a great and glorious reality in the background all the time, ever pressing towards realization, and employing whatever channels are available for its manifestation.

Foster Bailey; The Spirit of Masonry; Page 140:
Masonry is of divine origin, God's Plan for man
Masonry is of divine origin and was created for the purpose of training a group of members of the human family who would be capable of hastening the triumph of "God's Plan for man".

Point: The plan is one world government

Manly P. Hall; The Secret Destiny Of America; Page 73:
Plan has been carried on for many hundreds of years by secret societies.
Todays thinking toward a democratic world state is neither a new trend nor an accidental circumstance; the work of setting up the background of knowledge necessary to the establishing of enlightened democracy among all nations has been carried on for many hundreds of years by secret societies.

Foster Bailey; Running Gods Plan; Pages 14-15: European Economic Community
Another approved hierarchical project is the uniting of the nations of Europe in one cooperating peaceful community. The plan is not for a new all-Europe government nor for a common language, but for right national relations dedicated to the welfare of the people living in those countries undistorted by national pride, ambitions and prejudices and not under the heel of leaders who crave power nor cursed by the folly of attempted safety by means of military might.

Foster Bailey; Running Gods Plan; Page 15: Hitler, united Europe
This project ... was initiated some years ago and got under way as "Pan Europa"... Here we are dealing with a most intelligent people, highly organised, well-educated, alert to world affairs, but proud of their differences and convinced of their rightness about all things. This was therefore a much tougher problem but dear to the heart of the "European Master".
One attempt was to begin by uniting the peoples living in the Rhine river valley using that river as a binding factor. It was an attempt by a disciple but did not work.
Now another attempt is in full swing, namely the six nation European Common Market. This is focused in trade and thus far has been successful.

Foster Bailey; Things To Come; Pages 18-19:
World unity a definite project of the spiritual Hierarchy
Just as the people of a small village have to cooperate for the good of the village or it explodes into fragments, so nations will, in the long last, give up some of their sovereignty for world welfare for all mankind. .... World unity is a possibility and is a definite project of the spiritual Hierarchy of the planet today.

Foster Bailey; Things To Come; Page 84: new world order
Intelligent men and women everywhere are sensing the urgency of a new world order based on the recognition that the unity of humanity is a fact.

Foster Bailey; Things To Come; Page 85: World unity, Nazis, world government
World unity is now a major objective in human evolution. The Nazi attempt to control the whole human family was an attempt at world unity without spiritual vision, wrongly motivated, controlled by cruel force used for utterly wrong purposes.... Therefore, the spiritual Hierarchy took sides and worked for the triumph of the forces of light, which was achieved.

Just as the thirteen original colonies of the United States, when they had won freedom, gave up some of their sovereignty for national good, so a world government can emerge. If nations remain as now, controlled by wrong competing life values, we shall have to suffer through another abortive attempt not much better than the first League of Nations. The United Nations is a second attempt to achieve world unity by national cooperation. It involves much more than escaping world war.

Foster Bailey; Things To Come; Page 86: Law of the Sea Treaty
If the people of the world demand that the ocean beds be treated as the property of all humanity, it can be done. This can be by national treaties setting up an organisation to control it by a formal world government. In either case there must be a strong public will with a vision of world unity or it will be subverted and controlled by graft and corruption

Foster Bailey; Running Gods Plan; Page 141: World Government, Gods Plan
Of recent years the idea that we must ultimately have some sort of world government has been more and more expressed. The basic idea is pioneering and sound but the means to that end may be arguable. An outer codified world charter should precipitate around an enlightened world
opinion..... action leading to world government has the attention and support of the Hierarchy. It is part of God's Plan.

Foster Bailey; Running Gods Plan; Page144: a new world government
The thirteen original colonies gave some of their hard won sovereignty for their common good and thus the United States of America was born. In like manner and for the same reason the nations of the world will in time give up some of their sovereignties to a new world government which they will themselves create.

Manly P. Hall; Lectures On Ancient Philosophy; Page 424: Rule by the wise
The time has not yet arrived when the average man is strong enough or wise enough to rule himself. Even when unfolding destiny greatly magnifies the accomplishments of the many, there will not come a day when the wisdom of the mass will be equal to the wisdom of its wisest few.
.... Never will peace reign upon the earth until we are ruled by the fit, until he who possesses vision is permitted to see for him who is blind, until he who senses greatness is permitted to interpret its issues for him who is unresponsive to magnitudes. Men are only truly free when, governed by the wise, they are inclined gently towards the perfection of their own natures. Men are only truly great when, admitting the supremacy of the wise, they offer both life and chattel to the service of integrity.

Manly P. Hall; Lectures On Ancient Philosophy; Page 430:
Rule by the wise, One government
Only when the world is ruled by its best balanced intellects can we expect it to be well ruled.
Nor have we ever a sufficient number of illumined men to permit several score of smaller nations to have proper and adequate forms of government. Only by combining into a single people, and choosing the wisest of ... can we approach that philosophic empire which Bacon...advanced as the true solution of empire. When inferior intellects are chosen to administer governmental destinies, dissension is inevitable in the state. The true philosopher is the born ruler of men.


[edit on 22-3-2005 by Researcher]

Man Researcher, that stuff you posted Smacks of some serious Elitism. Not too sure I 'm going to willingly participate in the new 'Thraldom' that those people seem to be espousing.

The Psuedo-wise and all-powerful worry me.

Originally posted by Researcher
Manly P. Hall; The Secret Destiny Of America; Pages 23-24:
Order of the Quest; Enlightened Humans
Years of research among the records of olden peoples available in libraries, museums, and shrines of ancient cultures, has convinced me that there exists in the world today, and has existed for thousands of years, a body of enlightened humans united in what might be termed, an Order of the Quest. It is composed of those whose intellectual and spiritual perceptions have revealed to them that civilization has a Secret Destiny-secret, I say, because this high purpose is not realized by the many; the great masses of peoples still live along without any knowledge whatsoever that they are part of a Universal Motion in time and space.

ALL of the quotes you gave have multiple meanings. the meaning of those quotes changes depending on which angle you are looking at them from. Look at hall's quotes from the perspective of what he PROBABLY meant, meanning people who are willing to do good and do the work (of the lord?) should be invested with those tools necessary to helpingn him accompish such work not for himself, but for the greater good.

Sure, it can mean that person might be doing stuff in the interest of a government or conspiracy, but you don't know that.

All of the quotes have MULTIPLE meanings.

Look at them the way someone with eyes to see would look at them.

And then look at world history as evidence of this plan, and it will be even more clear what he means.

By saying "Men are only truly free when, governed by the wise, they are inclined gently towards the perfection of their own natures. Men are only truly great when, admitting the supremacy of the wise, they offer both life and chattel to the service of integrity." doesn't that tie in with what I posted, regarding a conspiracy only being possible under a religious unity? All of these men obviously believe in elitism, and the religious form of elitism...

"The powers that stand behind Freemasonry are great and holy, and it is but right that they should be conferred in their fullness only upon those who are likely to use them as they should be used and to treat them with the reverence they deserve." Hmm, and most members attest there is no unseen Power in Freemasonry, and here we see why they say so. Because they say only what they KNOW!

"The time has not yet arrived when the average man is strong enough or wise enough to rule himself." So he must be deceived into doing the Builder's work? Well, isn't that just peachy.

I mean, who can attest that it is anything but a BELIEF that man can not be made wise enough to govern himself? And it is this belief that results in the 'Right to Rule', the double-logic, we are ruling, because no one has been smart enough to overthrow us, so 'Slaves shall serve'.

Would it be possible for me to talk to someone (preferrably on AIM, seeing as I'm a few posts shy of using the private message service) sometime? Perhaps a kind of Q&A session, if you will. If you'd prefer not to, that would be just fine...I suppose I just lack the confidence to go to the local folks with such questions, however, if it really would be more beneficial to speak with them then I'll try to muster up the courage Thanks for the help so far, and honestly, thanks for not flaming like people seem to do so often these days (I'm not saying that you guys would, just that it seems to be the norm and I'm happy to have found someplace that doesn't fit that norm ).

nufan

EDIT: I suppose a screen name would be somewhat helpful. Nouse4anaim

[edit on 22-3-2005 by nmuxfpaxn]

Originally posted by nmuxfpaxn
Would it be possible for me to talk to someone (preferrably on AIM, seeing as I'm a few posts shy of using the private message service) sometime? Perhaps a kind of Q&A session, if you will. If you'd prefer not to, that would be just fine...I suppose I just lack the confidence to go to the local folks with such questions, however, if it really would be more beneficial to speak with them then I'll try to muster up the courage Thanks for the help so far, and honestly, thanks for not flaming like people seem to do so often these days (I'm not saying that you guys would, just that it seems to be the norm and I'm happy to have found someplace that doesn't fit that norm ).

Nufan: I sent you a u2u with my screen name and what hours im available to answer your questions. Please reply and let me know if that's good for you. If you can't check your U2U's, I'll tri something else. In the meantyime, check some other masonic info sites for your research. You can find great links by doing a search for messages on this forum.