how do we fix it?

i had a lot more to this post when i started, but realized, this is the question i meant to ask:

how do you change the mind of a man with a bomb strapped to him that thinks this is the only way? how do you defeat enmity?

You can't. You need to remove the root cause that makes them blow themselves up, which in the case of middle-eastern terrorists is abject poverty.

lol people say the poverty breeds crime but you should know that the need of money don't always breed crime. KKK didnt kill blacks because they took their money u know.

[edit on 22-3-2005 by deltaboy]

Originally posted by deltaboy
lol people say the poverty breeds crime but you should know that the need of money don't always breed crime. KKK didnt kill blacks because they took their money u know.

[edit on 22-3-2005 by deltaboy]

No they just wanted white supremecy and hated blacks....

exactly, which means a sucide bomber is far beyond money or religion but about hate and giving up on life.

Originally posted by deltaboy
exactly, which means a sucide bomber is far beyond money or religion but about hate and giving up on life.

Not really, the KKK didnt suicide bomb...diffrent tactics and physcy..
A suicide is mostly drawn to money and religion....religion creates hate and same with money...theyare not giveing up on life in their eyes instead increaseing it greatly....you cant use tactics and reasoning of the KKK against a suicide bomber...

Depending on the Situation the person with the bomb strapped to them can be talked out of it. We (Government Agencies, FBI, CIA, Police, Military) employ Negotiators. It is the responsibility of these brave men and women to do exactly that. Negotiate the situation to one not ending with the detonation.

These people put themselves in direct contact with the individual. The more communication they can get , the better chance they have of ending the situation without incident. They attempt to get information, private friend and family info, make a report with the suspect and help them to feel less tension. With the right person in place it can and does get done.

Phae

i meant a terrorist. i meant an arabic/islamic/fundamentalist/radical (who, of course, needs not be an arab, but more often than not, is. and who needs not be islamic, but more often than not, is.). this is the War on Terror forum, so i thought that was mostly understood. yes, there are terrorists of other nationalities and there are other reasons people may strap a bomb to themselves, but for the most part, it's been arabs and it's been radical islamics.

so, the question, rephrased:

how do you change the mind of THAT man?

Originally posted by fledgling666
i had a lot more to this post when i started, but realized, this is the question i meant to ask:

how do you change the mind of a man with a bomb strapped to him that thinks this is the only way? how do you defeat enmity?

First of all, you have to understand what brought the society to that point where they think this is the only answer. You can't do that by listening to pundits and politicians who are thousands of miles away... you have to go listen to the people themselves. In this case, read THEIR newspapers (not to argue, but to see what THEY are seeing. Remember, they don't see the same things you do.)

Second, you have to realize that your solution may not work for them. Our culture would reject handling divorce under the Shira laws... and they don't see the reason or logic of using OUR laws. Things that work for our culture don't work in theirs -- so you have to have trained people go to their countries and figure out how to get them to solve their own problems in ways that work for them.

But mostly, you have to start listening to what the people say. There was a report in Practicing Anthropology Magazine about six months ago that talks about how soldiers go into these areas with NO understanding of the cultures, the taboos, the things that they do that shock and disgust the people... and that how these GIs are innocently doing things that actually make their situation worse and even more unsafe.

To understand the bomber, you have to understand what he grew up under, how he was educated, what his religion said to him (and recognize that there are people like this on OUR side)... and then you have to learn WHO he will listen to and what he will listen to and start supporting those people.

Because he sure ain't going to listen to us any more than you might listen to someone ranting about Islamic politics.

you can use a moderate Muslim cleric who tells the possible suicide bomber that he also is against American policies but that committing violence and intentionally taking innocent people to paradise to serve you as slaves is not what the Koran wants you to do. Koran forbids suicide. don't listen to what Islamic fundamentalists say like 'this is wat Allah wants you to do or that Allah will take care of you in paradise if you do this". Allah Akbar!!!

I think you can change things but it'll take time & courage:

Rein in Israel - back behind the '67 borders. Build a Palestinian state and ensure its security. It may take a US-policed DMZ to separate the two and it would cost money and lives.

Encourage a more benign strand of Islam - to do this convincingly you'd need to adopt a country with no oil, recognise that they don't want to be American, make some real changes to that country's situation, not set up military / spy bases and let them develop their own way.

Stop undermining democracy where the result does fit in with your view - Chavez

Stop starting wars / bombing countries for short-term political gain.

Change the WTO to stop it exploiting the 3rd world at your expense

You can do it, it would be easy for you but you'd need to control those factions within your military, intelligence etc to stop them undoing any good work you do. It's only the last 30 years that rea the real problem so it might take 50 years to change the situation.

It may be too late now but trying's better than bombing everyone.

We once controlled the World by fear, some of the change since was forced on us, some was our own iniative but I think we gained respect for changing.

Originally posted by deltaboy
exactly, which means a sucide bomber is far beyond money or religion but about hate and giving up on life.

Very good point.

Originally posted by csulli456
Very good point.

Very wrong point...

Religion is the major cause of suicide bombers, always has been a major source of conflict.

Religion doesnt mean to do this it just happens when people misinterprept what was being said or implied.

ooh then i guess the Japanese kamikazes did it for religion as well huh?

Originally posted by deltaboy
ooh then i guess the Japanese kamikazes did it for religion as well huh?

Yes Emperor Hirihito was an adept manipulator of the Shinto philosophies. How do you stop a suicide? Give the person some hope, something to live for. Establish a fundamental doubt that self sacrafice is really neccesary. Every weapon is wielded with inent. If you erode the integrity upon which that intent is founded then the weapon becomes unusable. You cant tactically stop a suicide bomber by any means other than killing that person before they kill you. he key is to prevent ppl from considering such things. I wish I know how this could be done but I know that both sides have to be prepared to parley. Openly and honestly and without taking personal offence at the viewpont of the opposition. Understanding and hope are the weapons to prevent suicide bombers, school shoothers and the like.

Thanks james....

Originally posted by fledgling666how do you change the mind of a man with a bomb strapped to him

Why would you want to change his mind? If he hasn't blown himself up by the time any authorities get to him, then he's not really interested in blowing himself up, he's 'crying for help' and such. So send a psych and a sniper in and see which one can get the bomb in police hands.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by fledgling666how do you change the mind of a man with a bomb strapped to him

Why would you want to change his mind? If he hasn't blown himself up by the time any authorities get to him, then he's not really interested in blowing himself up, he's 'crying for help' and such. So send a psych and a sniper in and see which one can get the bomb in police hands.

yeah, i didn't really mean, rrrrr, you guys take the words too literally, what i meant, spelling it out now so that everyone can understand, hopefully, is:

how do you keep someone from making the choice to do that? how do you eradicate that as the only way to fight. how do you stop the common misconception that killing oneself is somehow equal to martyrdom, when it clearly is not? how do you convince a man that WOULD strap a bomb to his chest, that this is not the only way to fight (because if he is going to strap a bomb to his chest, he MUST believe this IS the ONLY way, mustn't he?)?