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Username Weise here at ATS was Minn. Shooter Killer

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posted on Mar, 28 2005 @ 05:02 AM
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WHAT MAKES KIDS KILL.

Dr Helen Smith is a Forensic Psycologist who has writting a book called The Scarred Heart.She has evaluated over 5000 mentally distrubed children and is an expert on children who kill.In her book she discusses what she believes is behind the spate of college killings.She states that the once nerds of a school who have been bullied would choose suicide to get attention.This has changed to striking out using guns moves them from being powerless to power from nobodies to media celebrities.
On one of her survey forms (Yes you can evaluate a person without actually metting them, So yes the internet disscussion site are a form of collationSuprise suprise)she recieved a response from an White 18yr old from New York.When asked what he did when he was feeling bad.he said Listen to Metallica because l like the angry lyrics.I enjoy listen and reading to things that talk about the destruction of the standing social order.Sometimes l when l am angry or lonely l look at pornography and fantasize raping the popular girls at school.Other times l think about building boms and light stuff on fire.Later in the survey he said given the current social structures in American schools serious violence and terrorism by students is inevitable.Even if a student is constant degraded dosn`t commit a serious crime at school,the chances of him her becoming a serious offender in the future are increased.I use an example of myself.I am already a member of a right wing extremist group and it is only a matter of time before l will followthe example set by Tim McVeigh.I plan to join the military to gain the skills l need to take out my rage on others.I am probably a potential serial killer.Soon fantasise about rape and murder will nolonger be sufficient.My interest in explosives and guns would be of interset to anybody who now my inner thoughts.Currently l am planning to set an abandoned farm on fire and listen to the fire crews on my scanner.

Smith objects to experts opinions that children become vilant from watch movies or listening to heavy rock.She believes it is an accumalation of many distorted thoughts and streses that finally sends a kid over the edge.In short it is the way he/she procceses what they see,hear and experiance.Kids who use violence to solve a problem have already had a number of violant thoughts.They percieve their envoiroment and there situation in such a way that violance seems there best mode of action.That is children who kill are predisposed to kill.They don`t just snap (Her words not mine majic).They have a restricted view of other people rights and they feel they must bring their situation to some dramatic conclusion.
Violance in children is a complex process that build with time.If a kid gives of signals he is likely to be ignored.It is true that people don`t tend to pay attention as in the case of Andrew Golden from Jonesboro adults who knew him describe him as a nice kid those who played with him realized he could be quite vicious.
School killers stand out from other types of kids who resort to violence they`re not like gang members,young drug dealers,kids from violent homes or fledgling psycopaths.They posses differant motives and differant traits.There are a number of charictaristics that one can spot a potential school killer.Some are obvious such as constantly talking about harming and making direct threats,high self esteem.Surburban kids who kill often are narcissistic and talk about how great they are.They tend to believe other have no rights,They are easilly offended if they believe they are being judged,they may also torture animals or siblings,talk about death and have a fasination of guns beyond what is normal for boys.Another conspicuous trait is the feeling of entitlement.School killers feel entitled to be treated well and they react angrily when rejected.A majority of school killers view school as a jail sentance.They feel the rules are unfair,that there is one rule for the popukar kids and another for the unpopular or rejected.Kids who kill are usually at there wits end,they want to let the world know how angry they are and how unjust it has been for them.If some intervention on there thoughts from an adult or peer may have a an effect on such thoughts and reduce the posibilities of actions on impulses.

These are Mrs Smith words not mine.The reason are extremely complex and much research is required before any understand of the reason behind the motives that cause children to kill.

In 1874 Jesse Pomeroy aged 14 years was arested for the sadistic killing of a 4 yr old boy.He was dubed the Boston Boy Fiend.His rampage started three years before his arrest with the sexual torture of seven boys.He was sentance to reform school.He was released early.He then killed and mutilated a ten yrs old girl.A month later he killed a four yr old boy he nearly decapitated it.

Are children being maniupulated into carring out these crimes well if you believe that you need help medically cause that may well fit a profile on your behaviour.




posted on Mar, 28 2005 @ 05:05 AM
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Originally posted by weirdo
I never stated ATS was free of criminals.Just potential child mass murders.

In light of why this thread exists in the first place, you might want to reconsider your position on this.


No this thread is about a child/adolesent who has commited mass murder.



posted on Mar, 28 2005 @ 01:28 PM
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Red Lake in DC
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.rlnn.com/ArticlesApr04/DCTrip.html

Check out the link for some pics of a group of Red Lake students in DC, April 18 to 24, 2004. [A group of CHS students had also traveled to DC before 4-20-99.]

---------------
www.rlnn.com/ArticlesApr0...ptApr.html

Here's a blurb from RED LAKE SCHOOL DISTRICT SUPERINTENDENT Desjarlait written in April 2004 on the strange event of 4-20-04(the fifth anniversay of the Columbine massacre):

**"On April 19 the middle and high school received threats of a drive by shooting on Tuesday, April 20('04). The district worked with the local law enforcement in insuring the safety of the students on that date. Due to the threat, all after school activities were cancelled for April 20. Law enforcement personnel were available in and around the buildings at the middle and high school. Whenever the district receives threats of this nature, the law enforcement will be immediately contacted for assistance. Parents having any questions concerning the events of April 20 are encouraged to contact the building principals at the middle and high school."


"threats of a drive-by shooting"?

What evidence did they have for Weise's involvement in this? What was the result of the investigation? What about Weise's friend "Mac" who also wore the TC to school?



posted on Mar, 28 2005 @ 04:51 PM
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Has anyone ELSE even heard that Wiese did NOT even attend that freakin' school!

This is so crazy! He was getting personalized tutoring at home, and wasn't allowed to be enrolled into the school for 'unspecified reasons' in the article I read (some # on newsmakingnews, I think).

Now, isn't this THE biggest break in the case?

What was the specific reason he wasn't allowed at school? His personalities switched too much?
Lets interview the damn personal tutor, how could that person not know his state of mind? I say we won't find out the name, and it was a Handling Expert.



posted on Mar, 28 2005 @ 05:15 PM
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Interesting new info:

Juvenile Arrested In Red Lake School Shooting

A juvenile has been arrested in last week's shooting rampage on the Red Lake Indian Reservation, federal authorities said Monday. They would not say how the juvenile was believed to be connected to the attack, which left 10 people dead, including the 16-year-old gunman.

U.S. Attorney Tom Heffelfinger said the juvenile was arrested Sunday, but declined to give any details, including the age and gender of the juvenile. Heffelfinger said federal law required him to withhold the details.



posted on Mar, 28 2005 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
What was the specific reason he wasn't allowed at school? His personalities switched too much?
Lets interview the damn personal tutor, how could that person not know his state of mind? I say we won't find out the name, and it was a Handling Expert.



Do you have a link for this? If so....


I agree....we need to know more about his personal tutor,everything from experience, training, qualifications, to personal habits.......how does a kid shoot up a school he doesn't go to....?

WyrdeOne.....good find on the survey.....that is very interesting.....I think it would prove a useful tool to find out more about the social status of Red Lake.....tough to get at since it is only on the radar for this incident, but the results of that survey suggest a tendency that could have it's roots in subversivity......I'm going to have to be careful to not have a pre-biased interpretation on this......

[edit on 28-3-2005 by MemoryShock]



posted on Mar, 28 2005 @ 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
Has anyone ELSE even heard that Wiese did NOT even attend that freakin' school!

This is so crazy! He was getting personalized tutoring at home, and wasn't allowed to be enrolled into the school for 'unspecified reasons' in the article I read (some # on newsmakingnews, I think).
Yes. I posted this on the 22nd in another thread: "but certainly the psychiatrist who dismissed him one year ago should have had a clue, and the school guidance which confined him to studies at home should have had a clue." My source I do not recall, possibly my daily newspaper. However, it did state he was anti-social and disruptive. Nevertheless his issues were known and not being divulged, possibly because the reservation would rather not show itself as sharing accountability. In an op/ed written by another native with links to the Red lake tribe, she claims that Red Lake was one of the few holdouts to signing a treaty with the U.S government, which means less state interference, and a hushed society.

It may be a long time before we know anything at all.



posted on Mar, 28 2005 @ 06:58 PM
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I just hope I didn't respond or post in any of the threads Weise was on. Once the lawyers get hold of this and the lawsuits start running rampant then anyone who was in any way involved with that kid will not be safe.

Thats my two nickels on the subject.

Love and light,

Wupy



posted on Mar, 28 2005 @ 06:58 PM
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This just in:

RED LAKE, Minn. - Federal authorities no longer believe that Red Lake school shooter Jeff Weise acted alone.

Authorities arrested Louis Jourdain, the 16-year-old son of Red Lake Tribal Chairman Floyd Jourdain, in connection with the school shootings at Red Lake High School, 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS has confirmed. ......

kstp.com/article/stories/...html?cat=1



posted on Mar, 28 2005 @ 07:03 PM
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Originally posted by starviego
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kstp.com/article/stories/...html?cat=1


the link isn't working

edit:

hopefully this will

Chairman's son arrested in shooting

[edit on 28-3-2005 by parrhesia]



posted on Mar, 28 2005 @ 10:48 PM
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Originally posted by mrwupy
I just hope I didn't respond or post in any of the threads Weise was on. Once the lawyers get hold of this and the lawsuits start running rampant then anyone who was in any way involved with that kid will not be safe.

Thats my two nickels on the subject.

Love and light,

Wupy

You dont have to worry about it. Even if the lawyers did come up to you and pull you into some sort of trouble it would all be BS. I think I replied to a post or two of his but the main point i want to make is 90% of his post show he was an attention whore. His post were odd even for this site. Claiming to have seen parnormal owls and all sorts of stuff. ENOUGH SAID!

[edit on 3/28/2005 by AndrewTB]



posted on Mar, 29 2005 @ 06:25 PM
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this may have been posted before but:

www.thesmokinggun.com...

click the first link ("Click here to view")...

it is his flash animation...





posted on Mar, 29 2005 @ 06:39 PM
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This story was found to not be ATSNN worthy.
Red Lake's Tribal Chief's Son Arrested In Connection To Shootings. (from ATSNN)

I started the thread sometime ago. Some here may want to discuss it.



posted on Mar, 29 2005 @ 10:50 PM
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cryptome.org/jeff-weise2.htm

These are excerps from a short story Weise allegedly wrote called “Surviving the Dead.” The story starts out as an armed attack on the high school where the protagonist is a student. But the school attackers are zombies, it then turns out it's all part of some military weapons experiment on innocent people.


"It was after eleven and dark as most stormy night’s are...."

[Comment: Fans of literature-so-bad-its-good know the opening lines of an famous bad novel begins with the words, "It was a dark and stormy night." But would a 15-yr old know this well enough to make a play of words out of it? Could a 15yr old have written this legnthy short story? I doubt it.]


" “Operation Paperclip” had just begun…"

[Comment: "Operation Paperclip" was the name of an infamous post-WWII covert op to bring nazi war criminals to America, some of which are thought to have been pioneers in mind-control technology.]


"Max’s tired eye’s fell upon the cliché maroon brick school ...

[Comment: In at least one of this internet posts Weise talks about his friend 'Mac' who also wore the black trenchcoat to school ("they had us pegged as "Trench Coat Mafia") No word on if this individual has been interviewed yet.]


"Max let out a sigh, even for a small town the security was tight. He hated that, after the school shooting’s like Columbine and Cold Spring’s they had stepped up the security at the front door...

[Comment: With all the obvious parallels with CHS, why does Weise never reference H&K directly, like so many copycats and wannabes have done? Strange.]


"First class was always a pain for Max, Mr. Reinhardt’s class, he had his mustache shaved like Adolf Hitler, even had the same hair style, which made everyone uncomfortable and nervous around him. A few of the kid’s had complained about it to the principle, but nothing came of it. “Now class, open your text book’s open to page 420,” said Mr. Reinhardt, he taught American Civics, not really Max’s favorite subject either, since he planned on moving to England when he turned 18..... “CODE RED! CODE RED!,” came over the intercom...

" “Code Red” had been discussed a lot by the teachers, Max had been growing sick of it. Code red was what would be said over the intercom if someone entered the building with a gun, teacher’s were supposed to lock their classroom door’s and move all student’s to the back of the room.

[Did any of the student eyewitnesses hear 'code red' on 3-21-04?]


"Ahead of them was a man, one who looked as if he wasn’t a day over 20, standing dressed in black BDUs, a matching cap on his head, ... In his right hand he held a large rifle... The stranger, who had identified himself as Edward Hawkins..." (EH?(initials of Eric Harris, allleged Columbine shooter))



More excerps from other postings:
----------
RPG(role playing game) scenario called "Global Nightmare":

"...Vampires,Werewolves,Zombies,Demons etc"

[Comment: Sounds very familiar to White Wolf, Inc. and their "World of Darkness" fiction and RPGs, which the trenchoat mafia at Columbine were also into.]


"And I roll a 6...6 again!Aaaaand...6 again!So I play theeee....... BAD GUY!"

[Comment: Indicates occult awareness]


""Ich denke nichts, mien freund... Ich denke nichts..." The vampire perched on the skyscraper smiled to himself in German. ...The note had been written in German and in demon blood. The note read: "Eraten wer Ist Rücken in der Spiele." "

[Comment: What is this fixation with German, just like H&K at Columbine? H&K took German classes. Did they offer the same at remote, tiny Red Lake HS? If not, where did Weise pick it up?]


"I wanted to write a quick reply so I didnt hold up the RPG any longer."

[Comment: If he was into online RPG, maybe he was also into Live Action RPGs(LARPs), which often feature simulated armed attacks]


"Blades11" was his name for some of these internet sites. 'Blade' was the name of a spate of vampire-themed movies starring Wesley Snipes. And check out the significance of '11':

www.rense.com/general63/11relatd.htm



posted on Mar, 29 2005 @ 11:15 PM
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Originally posted by AndrewTB

Originally posted by mrwupy
I just hope I didn't respond or post in any of the threads Weise was on. Once the lawyers get hold of this and the lawsuits start running rampant then anyone who was in any way involved with that kid will not be safe.

Thats my two nickels on the subject.

Love and light,

Wupy

You dont have to worry about it. Even if the lawyers did come up to you and pull you into some sort of trouble it would all be BS. I think I replied to a post or two of his but the main point i want to make is 90% of his post show he was an attention whore. His post were odd even for this site. Claiming to have seen parnormal owls and all sorts of stuff. ENOUGH SAID!

[edit on 3/28/2005 by AndrewTB]


Maybe he needed more attention and support from our members



posted on Mar, 29 2005 @ 11:51 PM
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Here's an interesting aside:
You may remember a news story of about a month ago of some high school kid getting arrested for writing an essay about zombies who attack a school.

(2-22-05 William Poole, 18, a junior at George Rogers Clark High School, Winchester County, KY)

The media played it like it was just a hysterical law enforcement overreaction to some guy who was just doing a class assignment.

But there was more to the story.

Police and the principle said there was no class, no class assignment, and no reference to any zombie in the journal of written material gathered in his home.

"The boy's version was that he was writing a story about zombies and it was for a portfolio entry that was going to be turned in at school," (Principal)Atkins said. "The teachers aren't aware of any kind of project like that. The word 'zombies' was not mentioned in the writings." "I saw nothing related to zombies in any of the writings. Nothing that would have been metaphor, related to the occult or supernatural, not anything like that."

What the materials did suggest was that Poole was possibly planning a school shooting:

"Police claim that the journal shows Poole's plan to organize a gang called the "No Limit Soldiers" "All the boys sit down at the kitchen table and start planning it out. They wrote down how many teachers, students and guards were at the high school. Also, how long it would take police to get there. They wrote down what was needed and how they was going to do it. They agreed right there they they would all die together." "They yelled, 'kill them,' and all the soldiers of Zone 2 started shooting. They are dropping every one of them. After five minutes, all the people are laying on the ground dead."

Other documents, titled “Death of a Soldier” tells his family goodbye and list two separate dates for his death, Nov. 20, 2004, and Feb. 19, 2005. The latter date was three days before Poole was arrested. His sister, who read what he wrote, indicated that he had listed the sites where the cameras are located in the school and timed out the minimum time it would take for police to arrive on campus.

Poole's history also seems to indicate cause for concern. According to some sources:

-he was previously arrested at school after fighting and threatening to kill another boy. He did this in front of kids and teachers.

-he had already been kicked out of another high school for planning the same sort of thing.

-he communicated with friends about procuring a number of guns, and tried to recruit others to participate.

--------------

[Comment: Of course, a lot of kids have been busted since Columbine for making up hitlists, plans, etc. The strange thing in this case is the way the major media turned against the police, by playing up Poole's "zombie essay" version, when it didn't even exist. And where it does exist--just 30 days later in the Red Lake shooter's web postings--major media has barely even mentioned it. Very strange.]


[edit on 29-3-2005 by starviego]



posted on Mar, 29 2005 @ 11:56 PM
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all of what happened is a tragedy...lets just hope that something like this never happens...if one can do so much..imagine what even more could do..i dont want to think about that actually...god bless all the victims...

so hes on here...well there are a lot of people on her.e.i dont think this should black label this site...im sure if all the identies of people on here were released...we would be really worried..i dont care if people see who i am..im just a 20 year old surrey kid...who likes reading...

web15.www.nexopia.com...



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 12:37 AM
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I have been wondering what prompted Weiss to kill his Grandfather and step-grandmother, before he went to the school, and what their relationship was like.
I had been under the impression that Weiss lived with his grandparents, since his mom is in a hospital with brain damage and his father killed himself after a stand-off with police 4 years ago.
Apparently, that is not the case, though I can't find any mention of who he was living with. Where he was residing does seems fairly significant, however, given the fact that he was being taught at home by a tutor, due to an unspecified medical (mental?) problem.

The following is a quote from Weiss' grandmother, on his relationship with his grandfather:

Weise's relatives have said they are dumbfounded as to why the troubled teenager went on the rampage, and some said they worry that he was put on too high a dose of the anti-depressant Prozac after a suicide attempt last summer. "Jeff loved his grandpa," said Shelda Lussier, Weise's grandmother. "His grandpa was the only one who [Jeff] would let cut his hair."

Hardly a negative description of their relationship, like I had expected. This, added to the possibility that one of his victims at the school, Chase Lussier, might also have been related to him (FBI agent Tabman refused to say whether or not they were related), makes me think that Weiss wasn't acting out of rage or hate.
Two of his classmates and friends, one of whom was seriously injured by Weiss had this to say of him:

When asked if she was angry with Weise for what he had done, Kingbird said, "No, he was my friend, but he also killed some of my friends, too. ... All the times I was sad he made me feel happy." And, despite his injuries, Ryan Auginash, also a friend of Weise's, has already forgiven the killer for his actions, according to his brother Andrew.

"He has a good heart," Andrew Auginash told The Associated Press. "He forgave the shooter," whom Ryan said he thought "just flipped out," according to Andrew.

Kingbird was in the gymnasium of Red Lake High during the shooting, and even though she considered herself a friend of Weise's, she's confident that if he had seen her he would have shot her as well.


Now for starters, these are some exceptionally understanding and compassionate kids. In a world where people frequently pass judgement on others and rarely forgive or try to understand anyone or anything, these kids have shown a strength of character few will ever possess.

As to the point of all this (and this is just a thought so don't get your panties in a bunch), it has struck me as a possibility that Weiss may have had a suicidal reaction to the Prozac he had been taking after his previous suicide attempt last summer. If he was delusional and severely depressed, it is possible that the reason he killed his grandfather, whom he loved, and then shot the people at his school (including his friends), with a smile and a wave, was because he believed he was releasing them from the same sense of pain and hopelessness that he felt. If he thought everyone else felt like he did, then he would have seen their deaths as something good, rather than evil.

Now I'm not saying this was the case, though I do believe this incident was largely caused by his taking of Prozac, and chances are it's probably totally off the mark, but since none of this makes sense anyways, this is as good a theory as any, I suppose.
Any one else consider this idea?

sources:
www.vh1.com...
www.washingtonpost.com...

Oh yeah! Here's another reason he may have thought he was doing them a favor:

A state survey conducted last year found that of 56 Red Lake ninth-graders, nearly half the girls said they had tried to kill themselves. Twenty percent of boys said the same — about triple the rate statewide. The survey also said Red Lake students assaulted other classmates and used more alcohol and drugs than other students across Minnesota.
www.cbsnews.com...


[edit on 30-3-2005 by jezebel]



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 04:09 AM
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Originally posted by they see ALL
this may have been posted before but:

www.thesmokinggun.com...

click the first link ("Click here to view")...

it is his flash animation...


Interesting animation and good find my they see ALL. Did anyone notice how in the animation the character kills a KKK member? Kind of makes you wonder why he was affiliated with certain racist organizations such as Nazi.org in the first place.



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 04:15 AM
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simulacra
Nazis have a tendency to look down on the KKK as backwater, ignorant cousins. FYI.

starviego
He couldn't have written the story? Sure he could have. First of all, it wasn't a literary masterpiece by any stretch of the imagination, and second of all I've known many young people who published novels before their twentieth birthday. I myself was working on a novella and numerous short stories of considerable length at 15.





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