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Username Weise here at ATS was Minn. Shooter Killer

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posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 05:05 AM
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Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
So rather than dismiss him and all others in a similar position as weak, start demanding we take care of our children, they are after all our future. For all you know a member of your family may be experiencing such torment, and could be the next declared coward, the fodder for others who care only to apply one-sided logic.


Exactly my thoughts SWIB !!


People just look at this incident and are looking for someone to blame, the kid had the gun , he pulled the trigger he certainly must be - 'Satan of the Situation'.
I think he pulled the trigger a long time ago in his head and the only thing holding him back all this time was his subconscious trying to find a way to get around this.
I've read his posts and he seems quite aware of his situation and the fact that he agreed to go for counseling shows that he had an intent to better himself, he failed to set himself straight. You could see this as his weakness or his excuse either way this shows the worsening state of social welfare of kids and the institution of family.
what do people find most distressing about this situation? Kids die everyday around the world and don't even receive a second mention in the news so this can't be the reason. Kids going on shooting sprees isn' t new either its been happening since the 1970's. School Killers
What is it that really shocks us about this incident ?? Kids have been killing since the 1970's and they aren't going to stop soon in the present senario! Also why is it that almost all the 'Killer Kids' are in the USA? [I presume this to be true as I havent come across any from other countries around the world]
I've been to Srilanka after the Tsunami and seen kids who had it worse than Weise does it mean they are all going to become mass murderers? Are American kids just too violent by nature ?
As Americans, it is important for us to see the broader picture of what is happening with the youth of today. Much of the media and social institutions blame the decay on a lack of values in today's American youth. Their inability to communicate their true feelings to real people and inturn feeling rejected or hurt or stressed also is major part of the problem, most kids have no 'homes' just houses where they 'live'.They prey upon us because we have turned a deaf ear. This is an attitude that prevails among most of todays teenagers. To be rejected or considered a nobody is often worse for them than death. Ostracised in high school is a feeling so hideous that many teenagers blame themselves first and not able to comprehend why they aren't the "cool" ones leads them to believe that everybody else is to blame and the spark of hate is lit here! Just look at this as example from Weise :


I talked to an "elder," (I'm native american), and he said what I saw was (insert Native-word here 'cause I can't remember it), shown itself to me as a "gift" from the creator. I had to hold in my laughter at this point. He also said that this thing was going to help me in some way or another, well the following day all I can think of was that I was more social, and more people (especially girls), acknowledged my existance. Though, the following days got worser and worser until finaly I back the car into a snowy ditch, get my favorite black leather combat boots wet jumping out of the car, getting shot in the stomach with a red rider BB gun by my 6 year old cousin, and hit with a baseball bat during an argument between my other 2 cousins, (teenage girls that like to go for the kill.) So what the elder said didn't really hit home.

What gets most people through this is friendship and family, life is tough but people who have somewhere where they are accepted are happier and more socially 'stable'. Ego is everything to kids (and some adults
) being different is one way to get noticed in the short run but it always leads to futher isolation, isolation breeds anger, anger leads to violence. This formula is well known and we can do nothing about it, where do we change things at school? at home? or the entire society?

I'm not trying to justify his actions[lest I be accused of some such] I only mean to analyse the entire situation throught my eyes. My condolences to all those who died and their families!


[edit on 24-3-2005 by IAF101]




posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 05:30 AM
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Just checked weise user details.Don`t you think it would be wise to delete his e-mail addresss before the wacko`s start.
Also when will Americans realise that having firearms so freely available is a bad thing.



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 07:35 AM
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I feel that we should put this behind us now.
Yes he was a member and he did shoot up his school, but lets not go over the top about this now.



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 08:59 AM
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I swore, not to make the tin foil hatters go crazy that there is another thread on this forum about someone saying that it was going to happen. I think this person posted under different alias's.



[edit on 24-3-2005 by Ritual]



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 09:07 AM
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Okay ..one thing ATS has its share of hardcore nationalists/racists etc. but they do not represnt the mentality of ATS..
I can say that for one because I am Indian and live in this rather obscure(to the world) Indian City and find the variety of people/personalities on ATS extremely refreshing if anything.. Its good to have a raving anit-commie dude typind out've his hove in say, texas, and immaturely arguing with a russian say in siberia..
Kudos to ATS.. its not a freak site.. you have the Indian (Asia) vote..



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 09:21 AM
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Yeah the person posted as 2 alias's and left clue's. Something to the effect of a school shooting on an Indian reservation. I remember reading it and thinking it was that dood from red creek.

Also another post about someone lying about threats to get attention (No not the one in this thread, before the incident happened someone posted that).


"I think" anyways.



[edit on 24-3-2005 by Ritual]

[edit on 24-3-2005 by Ritual]

[edit on 24-3-2005 by Ritual]



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 09:30 AM
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Like ATS some of the other site Weis has visited compiled posts he has made to their forums. As with most, when i first saw the story of the shooting i was saddened by the story of so many lives lost, and like some here and especially after seeing he posted on ATS, i was interested in reading his posts and trying to understand what would compel him to commit such an act. When something like this happens, the natural assuptions is to assume "What a horrible person" but, after reading some of the things he has written, I felt even more saddened by his demeanor and lack of hope and frustration. I do not condone his actions in any way. and send my utmost condonences to the families of those who were killed or injured. Here is a list of a few website and a livejounal of his that i had a look at.

www.nazi.org...

The Libertarian National Socialist Green Party, on whose messageboard Jeff Weise posted one year before the shooting. This is just basically thier own information and news on the story

www.nazi.org...

a compilation of his posts on the LNSG site

www.livejournal.com...

his live jounal, although realitively short, its what affected me the most

www.thesmokinggun.com...
some of his animation

profiles.yahoo.com...
his yahoo profile



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 09:56 AM
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Im not saying we should brush this under the carpet, so to speak, but this thread should be closed before it drives us all insane. At the end of the day, we weren't to know and we can't change time. Its sad that he killed so many people, but we can't go back and help him before he did this act.

Yeah, its sad, but dont hate ourselves for it.



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 10:44 AM
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Originally posted by weirdo
Also when will Americans realise that having firearms so freely available is a bad thing.

The kid got the gun from a cop. You suggest american cops can't carry guns?


daedalus3
and find the variety of people/personalities on ATS extremely refreshing if anything

Indeed, ATS has a really interesting mix of people on it that one practically can't have access to normally.

I disagree that the thread should be closed. People would just start another one anyway.



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
If you are unable to avoid a fight, then you have to fight back. If its something that constantly happens to you, then you take up boxing or something to better defend yourself. If you can avoid the fight, yes then avoid it, but you can't let people 'beat you up a little bit' so as to avoid getting into a bigger fight.

No no you dont understand....you fight back...you lose because THEY jump in and get you....yes its cowardly but it happens...



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by weirdo
Just checked weise user details.Don`t you think it would be wise to delete his e-mail addresss before the wacko`s start.
Also when will Americans realise that having firearms so freely available is a bad thing.


So cops shouldn't have guns now either?



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by Skibum
So cops shouldn't have guns now either?

Only a select a few.....AKA SWAT...



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 11:42 AM
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No no you dont understand....you fight back...you lose because THEY jump in and get you....yes its cowardly but it happens...


So you're gonna just let one guy pound you, to avoid the possibility of a few guys pounding you? Whats the difference you're still getting your a@@ kicked. Or do punches hurt less if you just stand there and take them?



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by Skibum
So cops shouldn't have guns now either?

Only a select a few.....AKA SWAT...


So how do you expect the police to protect themselves from armed criminals then? By laying there and letting them shoot them?

[edit on 24/3/05 by Skibum]



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by Skibum
So you're gonna just let one guy pound you, to avoid the possibility of a few guys pounding you? Whats the difference you're still getting your a@@ kicked. Or do punches hurt less if you just stand there and take them?

I am saying you cant always totaly fight back and win...if you fight back you have a have a greater chance of wining but also since they have a larger number of people they have a definate chance of winning..surely you understand this?
Besides..when does bullying entail physical abuse?


So how do you expect the police to protect themselves from armed criminals then? By laying there and letting them shoot them?

You protect yourself by getting the gunlaws increased so that THEY cant get them and if they do the police can fight them...

[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]

[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 01:38 PM
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You protect yourself by getting the gunlaws increased so that THEY cant get them and if they do the police can fight them...



Name one place that has banned guns, and successfuly collected all the guns and kept new guns from being distributed. Until that is possible, it is just a fairy tale.



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 03:47 PM
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Originally posted by Skibum
Name one place that has banned guns, and successfuly collected all the guns and kept new guns from being distributed. Until that is possible, it is just a fairy tale.

We have banned most guns and our gun crime is low...



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 03:51 PM
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What a sad sad story. I read the whole thread and i am shocked amazed and very saddened by this. I read his ats posts and to be honest he seemed the same as the rest of us, just searching for answers and giving his 2 cents in his own way. My heart goes out to all the community’s involved.

I just think if America would tighten its gun laws they would have a better world. America is a fast paced country, which creates a tense population. Allowing them such easy access to guns is just asking for it.

In Europe [not including uk] the gun laws are relaxed, but then so are the people. See what i mean.

Someone said "why is this just America?" Its not, you should have asked why does it happen more often in America?

Americans know why, they just wont except it.



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 04:33 PM
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Dont let this thread divert completely into gun control discussions....


There were so many other dynamics at play in this situation that were much more contributory to the end result.







[edit on 24-3-2005 by smirkley]



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 05:02 PM
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Originally posted by smirkley
Dont let this thread divert completely into gun control discussions....


There were so many other dynamics at play in this situation that were much more contributory to the end result.


Thats very true this thread brings to the surface many issue's, that should be discussed.



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