UFO Pilot Under-Reporting Bias.

originally posted by: ltdan08

I just recently re-classed into a flight medic position in the National Guard. A few months ago, we were flying back to our base at night, under NVGs. I forget how it came up, but all five of us in the helicopter admitted that we had separately witnessed our own UAP. Most of them had seen them from the helicopter, at night. I get the feeling that if you fly enough at night, you're bound to see something inexplicable. I agree with your assertion that these sightings are greatly underreported.

Thanks for sharing that account mate and would imagine many other aviators (and military personnel) feel the same way.

Even if a great many pilots don't officially report their sightings I'd say the average Joe is completely unaware of the large numbers of global aircraft incidents that do get reported to official investigative bodies like CRIDOVNI, CEFAA, OIFAA etc. and South America really does generate its fair share of freaky reports.

Some of the vids keep getting deleted but some info (and aircraft transmission recordings) below.


UFOs in Chile - BAVE's Rodrigo Bravo Garrido on Pilot UFO Cases.

General Ricardo Bermúdez discusses the Pelican UFO Case.

Peruvian Air Force to open Department studying UFO reports


You mentioned you were in a helicopter and did immediately think of this case - don't know if you've looked into it but the pilot felt so strongly about it that he even testified at the U.N.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

Never quite figured out if he meant the UFOs being down here meant they are ours, or whether they are from beneath our feet..

God knows where these objects originate from amigo but do get the impression that they've been around for a very long time.

Could be nothing but there's an account over on this thread involving a pilot reporting 'four manhole covers' flying alongside his aircraft from 1927.

a reply to: karl 12

Reading it now mate so many thanks for the link

Plus your links are so amazing you cheer our days up Karl 12 when bored at work, you post some totally awesome stuff

a reply to: ufoorbhunter


Ha thanks for the nice words mate and this subject always seems to throw up some kind of extremely freaky incident - there really doesn't seem to be any shortage of them either (whatever country you look in).

Regarding aviation encounters have always found the 'government cover up' aspect a really intriguing one and have had a good rummage around the files for some relevant examples.

There's an article below involving claims that at least 100 pilots (and 60 soldiers) were 'silenced over UFO testimony' - Italian translation for full article found in link.

“UFO: GEN. MARCELLETTI -- 100 PILOTS’ TESTIMONIES SILENCED

At least one hundred Italian pilots, some sixty soldiers and forty civilians, have been eyewitnesses in these years of UFO sightings but have been silenced by commands or flight directions with more threats or less veiled with retaliation. This was reported by General Salvatore Marcelletti, until 1972 a military pilot serving in the Italian air force and for the next twenty years driving civilian aircraft. .

Link

Also looks like these pilots were ordered to keep quiet and had to laugh when I saw the 'down with censorship' article had been removed (another link sourced below).

Multiple pilots witness UFOs (and told to keep quiet):


..Two other American Airlines crews, flying in the vicinity, were alerted by radio. They saw the UFO's too.

Three United Air Lines planes were plying the airways in that sky neighborhood that night. They had no contact with Captain Killian or the other American Airlines crews. But they, too, saw and privately reported three UFO's.

All this might have come out in a public debate. But then, abruptly, Captain Killian stopped arguing. In a statement to NICAP, his wife said that American airlines had been instructed by the Air Force to muzzle him. As of mid-1964, he was still forbidden to say anything more in public about that strange night in 1959.

DOWN DOWN DOWN WITH CENSORSHIP
By Maj. Donald E. Keyhoe

This pilot was told to 'cool it' and there are also claims of missing UFO photographs and witness reports.

At 38,000 feet last May he spotted a large object with a tube-like shape floating off his right wing. Doubting that any equipment we know could be pressureized and certificated to occupy that section of airspace, he deviated slightly from his air lane to take a closer look.

His co-pilot and flight engineer both observed it. It was dusk and he advised the passengers to look out the right window and take pictures if they had cameras.

His flight engineer took a Polaroid out of his flight bag and got three shots, slightly blurred, but obviously showing something red, hovering, with a projection or hump underneath it.

When they landed at the destination airport, the captain took the names of passengers who admitted seeing the object and collected a fourth roll of undeveloped film from one of them with a promise to return it. He then went to his dispatcher, wrote a report by hand of the circumstances and attached the film and the pictures to it.

He has never heard from his company.The dispatcher advised he turned everything over to the airline office that evening. The dispatcher was transferred to another city, and repeated calls to the airline are all answered with the denial that anyone has EVER received the report with pictures.

The captain was told that he could file another report and was advised that the airline had more than 150 UFO sighting reports on file and that he should "cool it."

link

Lowneck's thread also deals with confiscated photographs in the Peru DC-4 UFO case from 1967..

This is the only surviving photo of the funnel-shaped flying object that paced the Fawcett Airlines DC-4 passenger liner in flight from Piura to Lima on February 2, 1967, at 06:30 P.M. The passengers were all held for interrogation by authorities after the plane landed.

Several of the passengers had taken photos of the strange craft alongside the airliner, but all cameras were taken and all film was confiscated..

Giant UFO terrorised passengers on DC4

And there used to be another account of UFO photographs being confiscated in this E-book but looks like the specific page isn't hosted anymore.

Australian Airliner Buzzed By Disc - Photos Confiscated

Also, don't know if you've seen this thread by Angelc01 but it's got some really interesting info about UFOs over Spain and also contans this nugget.

like for example this document which states an incident that occured on a flight from Paris France to Madrid where a French photo journalist filmed a ufo during the flight and when he arrived to Madrid during his stay at the hotel he was confronted by spanish military high command and was asked to turn in the film under threat of deportation and arrest in which he had no other choice but to turn in the film which he had wih great reluctance.

Mass Sighting Over Spain In 1968

originally posted by: karl 12

And there used to be another account of UFO photographs being confiscated in this E-book but looks like the specific page isn't hosted anymore.

Australian Airliner Buzzed By Disc - Photos Confiscated

Think that one's this case.

Control Tower/Pilot Tapes - UFO photographs confiscated?
Australia, 1965:


Near Townsville, North Queensland, Australia, May 28, 1965

An Australian Ansett-A.N.A. airliner en route from Brisbane to Port Moresby in the early morning of May 28, 1965, was paced by a UFO and the pilot reportedly obtained photographs which were confiscated by the Australian government. Although the Department of Civil Aviation disclaims any knowledge of the incident, NICAP's informant, a public official in North Queensland, obtained the report directly from an aviation official involved in the sighting.

At about 3:25 a.m. on the morning of May 28, an Ansett--A.N.A. DC-6B (call sign VH-INH) was in the vicinity of Bougainville Reef. The pilot reported to the Townsville Ground Control Tower that he was being buzzed by a UFO - a flattened sphere with apparent exhaust gases coming from it. Other members of the crew also saw the UFO and the pilot took photographs of it. The object paced the aircraft for 10 to 15 minutes, then raced ahead of the aircraft at terrific speed and disappeared.

According to NICAP's informant, the pilot was instructed not to have the films developed in New Guinea. Instead he flew back to Brisbane and was flown from there to Canberra where the film was confiscated and the pilot instructed not to talk about the sighting. Tapes of the pilot's conversation with the control tower about the sighting were also confiscated.

NICAP Report - Section III - Vehicle Pacings and Encounters

originally posted by: karl 12 Regarding aviation encounters have always found the 'government cover up' aspect a really intriguing one and have had a good rummage around the files for some relevant examples.

Yeah for sure and that is so strange. It doesn't seem to matter which country we look at they all have very similar 'government cover up' procedures, almost like they are all in it together, maybe taking orders from a higher source.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

It doesn't seem to matter which country we look at they all have very similar 'government cover up' procedures, almost like they are all in it together, maybe taking orders from a higher source.

Yes indeed mate, it's one that been pondered for quite a while and if it is a coordinated effort (which I think it is) then maybe it more takes the form of a privatised multinational consortium rather than individual countries pressurizing other nation states (and offering 'significant economic and career related incentives to their military personnel')

Having said that did think Yves Sillard made an interesting statement below about the U.S. 'practising higher efforts of UFO investigation than any other country' and when it comes to the involvement of specific Anglo American agencies then ones I've read about range from the NSA, NRO, DIA, CIA, AEC, DOE and Secret Service right through to the DSTI, DI55 and P&SS.

“I think that the Americans practice on the subject much higher efforts of investigation than those of any other country, they practice a deliberated policy and had deliberately orchestrated misinformation. It is total misinformation. What for? Is it the fear to see their supremacy challenged if one day they face a much more advanced external civilization? Is it their concern of keeping potential technological assets to themselves? Or . . . or any other explanation, who knows?”

GEIPAN Director Yves Sillard, former Assistant Secretary General for Environmental and Scientific Affairs for NATO

Thought the quote below from Colonel Julio Vucetich (director of DIFAA) was also a relevant one as he's discussing official investigations and mentions the 'most advanced' are France, Italy and Spain.

Speaking to elcomercio.pe, the director of the Difaa, Colonel Julio Vucetich, criticized those who mock the seriousness of the issue and stressed that the department may conduct joint with similar entities in other countries so that in Peru there was substantiated information.

In which countries in the region have similar departments?

For example, in Chile with the Committee for the Study of Anomalous Aerial Phenomena (CEFAA), the Study Commission of the UFO Phenomenon (Cefora) in Argentina, the Commission of Inquiry into Allegations Recipient and Unidentified Flying Objects (CRIDOVNI) of Uruguay. We're going interconnecting bilateral meetings to exchange information and have coordination meetings. The most advanced are the Europeans, France, Italy and Spain.

Thread

Sorry to go about it but on the officially released side of things also thought this was a great thread regarding the various declassification status of different countries (pdf file) and there's a nice presentation here on official investigations from different countries.

originally posted by: Alien Abduct

Unbelievable HAHAHAHA!

The B52 crew was some of the people that actually reported the UFO....sheesh. The thing is they can pretty much say anything, it doesn't matter because the masses will eat it up and they know it.

Ha yes mate some of the official explanations are pretty hilarious and there's a relevant statement below.

"As a result of several trips to project Bluebook,I´ve had an opportunity to examine quite carefully and in detail the types of reports that are made by Bluebook personnel.In most cases, I have found that theres almost no correlation between so-called "evaluations and explanations" that are made by Bluebook and the facts of the case."

Science In Default: 22 Years Of Inadequate UFO Investigations

There's also the subject of missing gun camera footage in many of these pilot cases and I'd wager someone (somewhere) is sitting on an archive of it.

Newsclipping 1 / 2


However he describes seeing gun camera film of UFOs taken by RAF fighter pilots in 1956 that was shown at a secret screening for air defence staff in 1970.

A search of the archives in 1993-94 found no trace of these films.

Missing Gun Camera UFO Footage?

this sighting was bsw, before swamp gas. 😆a reply to: Alien Abduct

originally posted by: wobbs62

this sighting was bsw, before swamp gas. 😆

That's a new anacronym to me Wobbs but I like it.

Non aviation related but Sheriff Douglas Harvey does describe here how Dr Hynek received a mysterious phone call from Washington shortly before the press conference which instructed him to employ the 'swamp gas debunk'.

Have been looking through some old ATS threads dealing with pilot UFO sightings and it truly is amazing just how many links and videos have now been deleted - call me a conspiracy theorist but do suspect there's been a mass cull.

Know we've discussed USOs before and following the Bethune testimony where a UFO was said to emerge from the ocean there's another pilot report below where one was said to submerge into it.

Pilots Witness Two UFOs separate and One USO Submerge

December 22, 1977.

"Now comes, the wacky part of the whole thing. While we were watching the UFO, suddenly this other glowing thing drops out from underneath it. The damned thing drops out from underneath it. The damned thing looked a neon-green smoke ring. It dropped away from the larger UFO down toward the water … and submerged! We saw the glowing green circle of water where it went in, and then the glow disappeared!

“Seconds later, two more green rings dropped out. The second one dropped away and submerged like the first one, but the third one dropped down and then shot straight ahead to disappear toward the coast".

link

a reply to: karl 12

I know a 24 year career commercial pilot who flies for a major the word in the halls is if you value your line then you stay quiet on the coms about the things you see.

originally posted by: ApacheMonk

I know a 24 year career commercial pilot who flies for a major the word in the halls is if you value your line then you stay quiet on the coms about the things you see.

Yep sad to say that sounds all too true mate - there's been a few things that constantly pop up in UFO research over the years and the reluctance of UFO witnesses to come forward (especially pilots) is definitely one of them - god knows just how many incidents have gone unreported.

There's a relevant article below about airlines prohibiting pilots from going public and also some interesting testimony taken from the NOUFORS audio collection involving three disc shaped objects being photographed by a military jet's gun camera.


Audio Link



Article:

Passenger Plane Sightings

Statistics show that across the world UFO sightings occur at a rate of around one every two or three minutes. Not surprising then that pilots of commercial airliners should be high on the list of people to have most witnessed them. It is a fact that ever since the beginning of flight and commercial aviation strange craft or disk shaped objects have proved the bafflement of many a professional pilot. In many cases the sightings have been witnessed by the entire crew and passengers - literally hundreds of separate witnesses to each individual incident.

In the early days of commercial aviation these sightings proved something of a novelty. Pilots and air crew were happy to recount their experiences to any one who would listen. Gradually however this openness began to disappear. Airlines became increasingly sensitive to these issues, some even going as far as to prohibit their pilots from talking publicly of their sightings.

Link

Reported E-M effects included radio interference or total failure, radar contact with and without simultaneous visual contact, magnetic and/or gyro-compass deviations, automatic direction finder failure or interference, engine stopping or interruption, dimming cabin lights, transponder failure, and military aircraft weapon system failure.

EM effects also play a role in pilot reports and there's a multiple aircraft R/V case described below by pilot César Escobar.

1991: Paraguay.

A radar/visual UFO sighting was reported on the night of June 8 from two airplanes: a private Cessna 210 carrying three passengers, and a Paraguayan Air Lines flight from Asunción to Miami. Air traffic control at Asunción's airport detected an unknown radar track and also saw an object hovering over a runway.

An official document from the Civil Aeronautical Agency of the Ministry of Defense confirms the radar detection. The Cessna's automatic direction finder (ADF) malfunctioned during the sighting. Pilot César Escobar reported:


"During close approaches, the Cessna instruments 'went crazy'... The (ADF) was moving around indiscriminately, without any sense of direction. When the light moved a little farther away, everything returned to normal. It repeated this 'game' several times. It seemed to be under intelligent control."

Briefing Document

Dr Jim Mcdonald also covers some very interesting pilot UFO cases in this statement to the U.S. House Committee on Science and Aeronatics:


Why Don't Pilot's See UFOs?

As far as reasons radar people dont ask the questions I have a second hand story that might help.

Friend of the wifes flew with her on AWACS for about 12 years, he was a scope dope very logical guy obsessive about logic and reason really very rarely did he ever take leaps of faith.

They were doing counter drug in south america, see a track that fit the profile report it and locals swoop in to track and arrest.

he saw something come up on his radar moving slow and fit the profile till hit around 10k feet then it took off and was off his scope in seconds, doing his job it was reported.

They landed at the end of the day and were met by guys in suits that downloaded the information, and told him he didnt see anything if he wanted to keep working.

Coulda been a UFO coulda been an experimental airplane/UAV, dont know I asked him what he thought and his reply was I have no idea, never saw anything like it before or since.

Point being if someone reports something and gets threatened, or fired word will trickle around what happened and well each person gets to make their own choice.

originally posted by: Irishhaf

Point being if someone reports something and gets threatened, or fired word will trickle around what happened and well each person gets to make their own choice.

Thanks for sharing that mate and yes can see how that would be a rather effective deterrent.. once word got round.

Linked the thread further back but thought there was some really interesting reading in Professor Michael Sword's blogpost below about John Lester's poll of 50 commercial pilots - also some interesting radar operator testimony and info on the radar catalogue compiled by Jan Aldrich and Martin Shough.

A Forgotten Piece of 1959 Research

Thought Ted Roe (author of the 'Under-Reporting Bias of UAP' report) gave a good interview below and raised some important points about social conditioning and the perceived risk of pilots reporting (or even discussing) their UAP / UFO / OVNI encounters.

From 18:50

Ted Roe is a co-founder and the Executive Director of the National Aviation Reporting Center on Anomalous Phenomena, NARCAP.org, which was established in 1999. He was born and raised in Great Falls, Montana during the 1960s and 70s and his interest in UAP and UAP research arose from local events and direct experience. Alongside his work with Dr. Richard Haines and the team at NARCAP, he has established and administrates the International Association of UAP Researchers, IAUAPR.org.

It's stated that Dr Michio Kaku vetted and reviewed the NARCAP files for congressional hearings (which the DHS then skewed away from the UFO issue) and Kaku's impression was that he was looking at 'exogenous incursions'.

Apparently Bigelow also came sniffing around the NARCAP files wanting to purchase the originals (presumably to censor them from the public) but politely got told to GTFO.

Canadian CIRVIS UFO reports submitted by commercial / military pilots withheld from the public:

Canadian Company is Hiding 25 Years of Data on UFO Sightings by Pilots

“Nav Canada essentially has discretionary power over the release of information about this issue. That makes it extraordinarily difficult for anyone seeking a greater understanding of these incidents.”


In a detailed investigation by VICE, Sean Holman, an associate professor of journalism at Alberta’s Mount Royal University and a researcher who focuses on Canada’s freedom of information laws, reveals why it’s more difficult to obtain data on UFO encounters by commercial pilots in Canada – its civil air navigation system – air traffic controllers, flight service specialists and technologists – work for the privately run, not for profit corporation Nav Canada. 


Founded in 1966, it is paid by the Canadian government to run its air traffic control system. Despite the government being its sole customer, Nav Canada is under no obligation to submit to public scrutiny or respond to public requests for information.

link

a reply to: karl 12

karl12, I think we need to clarify first who is responsible for reporting what. In my view, I always expect a civilian pilot to report to the ATC unusual traffic for the ATC to come back with relevant information, and if and only if the unusual traffic poses a danger to the flight. For the pilot there are no UFOs, only unusual traffic, and only if the ATC confirms the traffic as unusual.

For the military pilot, I expect him to notify of anything around that he cannot readily identify as a friend or foe. If the IFF concludes it is not a friend, then it is obviously a threat until fully identified.

I guess a pilot reporting a UFO is less credible than one simply reporting unusual traffic. The words used are important in giving credit to a report.

A classic sad one from Michigan.

www.history.com...

originally posted by: mikell

A classic sad one from Michigan.

www.history.com...

Thanks for the post mate and have never really looked into that one - Isaac once posted a free download here for Dr Willy Smith's (great) book 'On Pilots and UFOs' which has a chapter on it and also contains linked threads to the case and a possible crash debris hoax.

Regarding CIRVIS Military pilot UFO reports it looks like all roads lead back to NORAD and would really recommend this John Greenewald Junior presentation as he basically shows they're lying just by citing their own documents.

From 14:15