Fed. judge refuses to order feeding tube reinsertion

Just in - the Federal judge in Florida has refused to order the re-insertion of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube.

The larger questions are still to be considered; however, Terri will probably die before they are resolved.

Finally this poor lady will be able to rest in peace. The only part I disagree with is the "letting her die" through dehydration. Surely an injection would be more humane. Euthanasia is some cases is a very humane and respectful thing.

Already her kidneys are beginning to fail because of the four days of dehydration. This cannot be the best we can do as a society.

I agree, Kriz, euthanasia is a much kinder solution in a case like this.

The Italian news is saying that the pope is very weak and they
are calling this week, holy week, the pope's Calvary.

Some of the US Congress said the same thing about Terri
Schiavo, calling this week, holy week, her Calvary.

Good Friday will be 8 days for Terri. I'm not one to look for
'signs' everywhere ... but I wouldn't be surprised if she died
at the holy hour on Good Friday - 3pm - and the sky will turn
black, and the ground will shake. What else would shake
America out of this state we are in? To starve to death a
woman. Not to allow her a priest. Not to allow her burial
in a Catholic cemetary. (and the kicker is that Michael is
insisting on IMMEDIATE cremation upon death ... gee ...
guess he wants no autopsy to show the world his criminal
neglect of her). Sickening. Putrid and sickening.

I just hope that the order from Congress holds ... the order
that Michael Schiavo, Terri's two doctors, and Terri herself
have to come before congress to answer questions on March 28.
Terri will most likely be dead by then, but if Michael doesn't show
up ... I hope the federal marshals come for him in a big way.

Well, I'm at peace, I think believe her spirit passed on a long time ago.

She will be with her family soon enough...

I know is very strong feelings about the Terri case, but as domestic issue I am glad the law prevail.

Nobody wants anybody death, but when the court has side all these years with the husband (regardless of what evil he is) it means that the reports they have clearly show the woman irreversible condition.

Now I find very hard to imagine what the parents are going to though, after all I am a mother, but also we have to think of how the grief of this parents may cloud their judgment.

The media the politicians and interest group are to blame for all the propaganda that they has used against this family issue for political and agendas gain.

That is what with should be mad about and what we should really be debating about.

This judge decision after this case has been in court for so many years is the right decision, and I know that sound harsh but that is the law and should be respected by the congress and the president.

Due process is back the way it should be, now it will go to Atlanta were it should be, and all this should had been done without the dramatic propaganda of interest groups.

If this procedures would had been done before the tube was removed perhaps the law in a higher court could had given the family a chance.

At the end we have to worry about what will be next, and see if the federal government will step their borders again.

Perhaps Terri's soul has been with her creator since that day 15 years ago, and all we are trying to save is an empty shell.

That last sentence is just my opinion, we need to put a stop to interest groups that wants to rule our private lives.

Originally posted by marg6043
I know is very strong feelings about the Terri case, but as domestic issue I am glad the law prevail.

Marg which part of this is a domestic issue?

(1) I guess by this logic husbands should have the right to beat and maim their partners as its a domestic issue? This is NOT a domestic issue this is a human rights issue. I believe most people here are not objecting to the euthanasia aspect but starving a living being to death,and no matter how brain damaged she may or may not be, she is still a human being.

(2) Michael Schiavo has a woman that he has been living with for more than 10 years and has children with - I believe they are his domestic issues, not some woman he has refused to divorce, yet felt it ok to start his new family? You may say that he has been trying to get terri euthanized 7 years ago? But he has been living with "wife #2" for more than 10 years. Has Florida become Utah with polygamous marriages?

(3) If he truly cared about Terri why does he refuse her her most fundamental rights, even those of a catholic funeral? This man is guilty of spousal abuse to the extreme and all those applauding him, are in fact applauding spousal abuse.

I pray for Terri and her family. I pray for Michael because he can surely not sleep easy at night.

That federal judge will meet with an untimely death, imho.

How dare he go against Bush?

Sorry Mynaeris, but regardless of you strong feelings about the woman is not issue here but the law and its decisions and that is the way it should be.

Is not debate here anymore, that is what interest groups want and many are falling for it.

I live in the south and even religious groups here believe that "God is the giver of life and God should take it away" and "the bible doesn't unfortunately doesn't show about science taking the place of God in some case like this poor woman.

Now it will go to the court in Atlanta and we should leave it to the law to do their job in this case the way it should be.

If we can not trust our judicial system to weight the arguments and the facts then who you are going to trust? interest groups that are just using this woman family for their own gain? you think they care? no, they not, look at the polls of the Majority in our nations and what they feel about all this.

Funny even our own poll here in the south shows that the majority believe that government should stay out, and the law should prevail.

The family have their arguments the husband had their arguments and now the law should made the last decision.

Already her kidneys are beginning to fail because of the four days of dehydration. This cannot be the best we can do as a society.

I agree, Kriz, euthanasia is a much kinder solution in a case like this.

Agreed.

I'm also glad to see that the federal judge upheld the law, and didn't allow the Congress to circumvent the Judicial process.

The actions taken by the Governor, President, and Congress had the potential to completely undermine the Constitution, putting cracks in the very foundation of our government, and I'm glad to see that at least for now, those cracks haven't been made.

When this is all over, the Supreme Court is likely going to strike down this recent bill. Of course, they (Congress) knew that when they passed it, but they were stalling for time. To me, the fact of Congress passing a bill they know is unconstitutional, just as a stall tactic, is very sickening.

Originally posted by Mynaeris

Michael Schiavo has a woman that he has been living with for more than 10 years and has children with - I believe they are his domestic issues, not some woman he has refused to divorce, yet felt it ok to start his new family? You may say that he has been trying to get terri euthanized 7 years ago? But he has been living with "wife #2" for more than 10 years. Has Florida become Utah with polygamous marriages?

This is completely and utterly beside the point at hand. The fact that you consider how someone chooses to live their private life as a factor in a private medical decision shows that your decision-making process, like millions of of other Americans, is clouded and warped by personal bias against the husband.

How or why this man chooses to lead his life is his business and his business alone. If you were to ask many people his age, I would suspect that many of them would say that if he truely believed that his wife died when she had her seizure, then why should he not be able to live out the rest of his life and be happy? For God's sake, if I were in the same medical condition, the last thing I would want my wife to do would be to mope around me in a hospital for 20 years, wondering if I was ever going to wake up. Agony for her and hell for me.

Too many people are all to willing to judge others in this case. People should be allowed to make their own decisions, and then live by them. If they violate social norms, then they will be judged by society. If they do not, then let those decisions, whether they be right or wrong, be judged by our maker.

Marg: Firstly, this is not about strong feelings this is about human rights. You keep regurgitating the whole party and government interference line. let me make this clear to you I am not an American so have no party affiliations;

Secondly, this process is and has at no point been driven by government or party interests. It has been initiated and driven by her parents concern for their daughter.

Thirdly, I would appreciate it if you actually address the questions I raise in my postings rather than repeat the political line. Is her life and death a human rights issue or a spousal rights one? Men aren't even entitled to demand sex in marriage, yet you are saying that he has the right to stop medical treatment for the past 8 years which has reduced her to the state she is in? Having done that he has the right to end her life? I repeat this is the ultimate in spousal abuse with a portion of the community applauding it? Is there not a better forum to fight against Bush? If as I have stated before she is indeed "brain dead", which she obviously isn't as her breathing would cease, what is he losing out on by keeping her body alive? This is a living organism that is being starved to death. If he really was in anyway interested in her he would be out there trying to fight for euthanasia, possibly an overdose of morphine etc?

Marg, I look forward to your responses.

Pyros : What are you rambling on about? I was simply pointing out he had already moved on with his life. Which is fine, but he also felt compelled after 7 years to insist that Terri receive no medical treatment. Are these his rights? My further point in this regard is that he had created a new domicile and domestic situation elsewhere and therefore it was no longer a domestic matter. we are not speaking about his life or death, we are discussing hers.






[edit on 22-3-2005 by Mynaeris]

Mynaeris is not debate here I live to the law, my opinion or yours will not change anything so why getting on a debate with you? to give you satisfaction? I rather not.

I have nothing to gain from it.

You may find some that will take the bait, good luck.

Marg: I don't mean to appear rude, but you state whatever you feel is the correct party line response to this then accuse others of baiting you? This is a common response by you on all threads? I could research this and give you a list of people you have responded to in this fashion. Rather say that you don't have an answer for it. I understood these threads to be discussion of a person's rights not an opprtunity to regurgitate any party's line?

Fine, allow me to then...(and this is no partisan issue...)

(1) I guess by this logic husbands should have the right to beat and maim their partners as its a domestic issue? This is NOT a domestic issue this is a human rights issue. I believe most people here are not objecting to the euthanasia aspect but starving a living being to death,and no matter how brain damaged she may or may not be, she is still a human being.

No, it is completely different. What you mentioned is ALREADY against the law, and it's apples and oranges. This is BOTH a domestic rights, and a human rights issue. Chief among these is the right to die. According to Michael, and over a DOZEN court battles, Terri expressed that she did not WANT to live this way. The law holds that when one is incapacitated, the spouse is the one who can decide on her behalf. If YOU were incapacitated who would YOU want making decisions for you? I know my choice would be my wife...(even if she found someone new while I was dying, I know she knows my wishes).

(2) Michael Schiavo has a woman that he has been living with for more than 10 years and has children with - I believe they are his domestic issues, not some woman he has refused to divorce, yet felt it ok to start his new family? You may say that he has been trying to get terri euthanized 7 years ago? But he has been living with "wife #2" for more than 10 years. Has Florida become Utah with polygamous marriages?

No, but Michael could be the most vile scum on the planet, it doesn't change the issue of law here. If we allow the law to be circumvented just because we don't approve of someone, if we have our governor and our president and our Congress get away with bypassing the judicial process because of this, then we are headed down a VERY slippery slope. The bottom line is that HE is the one endowed with this decision.

(3) If he truly cared about Terri why does he refuse her her most fundamental rights, even those of a catholic funeral? This man is guilty of spousal abuse to the extreme and all those applauding him, are in fact applauding spousal abuse.

The only abuse here is from those keeping her trapped in her shell of a body in a persistent vegetative state. According to Michael (and the aforementioned court battles), he and Terri had conversations on this issue, and her wishes were not to live like this. The fact that he could have easily divorced her, and walked away to truly start with his new family, (and would have become a MILLIONAIRE in the process)....the fact that he turned this down to make sure her wishes were carried out...that speaks volumes about how he cares for her wishes....


[edit on 22-3-2005 by Gazrok]

it speaks volumes of how he hopes she doesn't wake up because she was his punching bag. he obviously drove her into her eating disorder. the guy should be put in the electric chair for his crimes against humanity.

Its ok, Mynaeris, I just feel that this case is beyond us and not matter how we feel in the matter, is out of our hands now.

All we can do is just comment on how the case is going to do in the next court in Atlanta.

Tragically by the time that any decisions be made her body is going to sustain further damage.

I do not like the way she is dying but is beyond me, you and any other good caring and god fearing people hands, that has follow this case for a while.

Gazrok: Your answers are both eloquent and a different perspective on the same case. I don't agree completely on all of them but I agree it is a logical non political perspective. However may I ask two things?

1) Why is it that his ex-gf admitted in court that he lied about Terri wanting to die rather than live like this . The doubt on his credibility should surely be on your and everybody else's mind also? By the way in the dozens of court battles it was only Michael's testimony to her wanting this end to her life. In fact it took him 7 years to recall that it was so.

2) Would you want your wife to cease all medical attention when you can walk and interact? As well as if she decided that you were in a PVS would you want her to starve you to death, or go that extra mile to demand euthanasia?

it speaks volumes of how he hopes she doesn't wake up because she was his punching bag. he obviously drove her into her eating disorder. the guy should be put in the electric chair for his crimes against humanity.

After 15 years and brain damage would this really be an honest concern of Michael??? Yeah...didn't think so... This is REALLY fishing here....

They tried the abuse angle, remember? The underhanded little ploy that Jeb did with DCF filing a motion? The judge saw it for the bull it was...

[edit on 22-3-2005 by Gazrok]

Thanks, Gazrok those are very good points, we have to be very careful about what really has gone behind the scenes, I feel that if he has done any wrong doings by all means he should be brought up to justice.

But if all the propaganda is to make him look evil to appeal to the sense of righteousness on the people then that is wrong.

How many times my husband and I had gone through the same type of talks, that is husband and wife talks.

The law is in his favor not matter what, now the family has to prove that he did criminal acts against her, but so far the courts in 19 appeals has not found any and still favor him.

See, if th elevent circuit, decide that something is fishy then they will rule in her favor, but so far the court in Florida has not seen anything like that.