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WAR: El Al Plants Weapons on Planes

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posted on Mar, 22 2005 @ 12:56 AM
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Israeli airline El Al has, in a move to catch terrorists, planted fake weapons in the baggage of some of its customers. One anonymous traveler found a weapon and reported it to airport staff who in theory should have found the weapon before the passenger. These checks should have made sure the passenger never knew the drill was occuring.
 



news.bbc.co.uk
The man discovered the weapon while unpacking in Israel after a visit to Germany, reports Israeli daily Haaretz.

He immediately reported the find to the police only to be told that the weapon, which had been de-activated, was part of a security drill for airline staff.

Security officers sometimes put replica guns in luggage to keep bag checkers on their toes, Haaretz says.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


"El Al uses different tactics to ensure the safety of its passengers," said a spokeswoman. "We won't detail our tactics."

Apparently El Al airlines is trying some pro-active moves to catch terrorists willing to hi-jack an airplane, or at least shoot-up its passengers. It obviously failed.


Related News Links:
www.haaretzdaily.com

[edit on (3/22/0505 by PistolPete]




posted on Mar, 22 2005 @ 02:01 AM
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I dont know about this one. Smells really fishy to me. Maybe Israeli was planning a 911 of their own and then blame it on Syria or something.



posted on Mar, 22 2005 @ 03:32 AM
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That really is outrageous behaviour and makes security a joke.

All the questions when checking in about your luggage; did you pack it yourself?, has it been out of your sight or unattended for any time since you packed it?
And them some bozo gets to plant stuff in it after it has left your control for a supposedly secure environment



posted on Mar, 22 2005 @ 04:15 AM
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This actually happens a LOT with many countries. Security personel at Paris Charles de Gaulle airport recently 'lost' 150grams of explosive they were using to train sniffer dogs, some baggage handler who didnt know about the exercise put the passengers bag containing the explosive onto a flight. Best thing? It could have gone to anyone of 90 different flights - noone knows which one. The explosive, as far as I know, was never found or returned.

news.bbc.co.uk...

There was a recent case of an american airport doing something similiar, but I cant remember what it was they lost and I cant dig up any details either


The problem is that you HAVE to have the actual items there to conduct blind tests - if you tell the baggage handlers/checkers that they are now looking for a test item, eg something shaped like a gun, they will be more vigilent than normal because they know theres a test on. They have to be conducting checks as normal, so the best way to do that is to present them with a real scenario.



posted on Mar, 22 2005 @ 04:37 AM
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just imagine the headlines.
some poor soul reaches into his bag for something or other finds what looks like a gun. he pulls it out thinking what the hell is this? a security person sees him pull a gun yells to drop it. he is stunned, no clue as to what is going on. not being guilty of anything he dosn't even think staight. he gets shot. oops this "gun" was part of a test to see if airline personell are being dilligent.

this type of testing should be done. but only those who know whats going on should have the "testing" pieces. otherwise the above accident could easly happen. also since most personell don't know it is a test imagine what someone with a test piece might go through before the fact it was a test is realized?



posted on Mar, 22 2005 @ 05:21 AM
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this type of testing should be done. but only those who know whats going on should have the "testing" pieces. otherwise the above accident could easly happen. also since most personell don't know it is a test imagine what someone with a test piece might go through before the fact it was a test is realized?


THats precisely what this is designed to do. THe baggage checkers should be eternally vigilent, not just when they know theres a test occuring. If you tell the baggage handlers that theres a test device planted, how do you test their vigilance and reactions at other times? Should the terrorists inform the airport staff so that the checkers could be as vigilent as they are when they know there is a test happening?

The fact is that people are more concerned about their personal performance when they KNOW they are under test conditions, and as such they will be more vigilant and pay more attention during these times. In this case, they should be this vigilant all the time - and the only two ways to check this is to use hidden weapons or wait for a terrorist to attack.

Simply put, the test conditions NEED to be as close to real conditions as possible, anything else is a pointless test of how the people pass tests.



posted on Mar, 22 2005 @ 05:40 AM
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Ok, so plant a bag for training purposes. They should not be tampering with peoples luggage and putting items in.
As I said above, we are asked to state that our luggage contains no banned items and that we packed it ourselves. What is the point in that if people unknown to us can tamper with it after it has been passed to the airline/airport staff.



posted on Mar, 22 2005 @ 05:46 AM
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To be fair if this was a real terrorist that managed to smuggle a real gun into his luggage it woudnt mean that the plane was in danger. Just how would he manage to get to the cargo hold of the plane? Survive the sub zero temperatures and find his bag and get the gun out before freezing solid.

Now if it was in his hand luggage thats different, but it didnt specify whether it was or not. Those are x-rayed as a matter of course and I really cant see some one not seeing a pistol in hand luggage on those screens.



posted on Mar, 22 2005 @ 05:53 AM
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Richard,


There was a recent case of an american airport doing something similiar, but I cant remember what it was they lost and I cant dig up any details either


I too cannot remember the exact details, but I think it was explosive detontors.


this type of testing should be done. but only those who know whats going on should have the "testing" pieces. otherwise the above accident could easly happen. also since most personell don't know it is a test imagine what someone with a test piece might go through before the fact it was a test is realized?


A very good point, surely it would be better if they knew. They could then be instructed to hide it, likely better than someone who has planted it. I can imagine the scenario you described about a stunned findee getting shot.



posted on Mar, 22 2005 @ 09:59 AM
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Seems like a good idea. It certainly demonstrates that the people responsible for security are incompetent, including the ones who put the replica gun there; they completely negelected to retreive it.


Just how the hell is this supposed to be an attempt at staging a 911 type attack? its a fake gun. And what exactly, they just forgot to do it? 'Oh crap, yesterday we were supposed to kill thousands in order to vaguely advance a plan to make everyone jewish'! Please.



posted on Mar, 22 2005 @ 11:11 AM
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It certainly avoids the problem of pitiful actors playing out drills.

I have been part of many "emergency drills" of different sorts, and the fact of the matter is, people act differently when they know there is a drill going on. People will automatically assume roles. Why? Because they know their performance is being monitored. Look at your own schooling as an example. When the fire alarm went off why did you shut up and stroll down the stairs in a straight line without talking? Could it have had anything to do with the teacher holding her stopwatch looking at you?

The point of this type of drill is to have someone put the "weapon" in, test if the baggage checkers pick it up, and then take it out. Leaving it there for the traveller to find isn't what I'd consider good practice, but things happened there I guess.

For those of you whining about this, consider that American airports have a god awful track record of finding things and there have been numerous examples of reporters slipping all sorts of unpleasantries past our TSA checkers. Maybe our guys are great while they know they're being watched but not during day to day? Maybe El Al has the right idea? Consider that.

Oh and I'm personally insulted by the user who stated that conducting a security drill using a FAKE weapon was Israel's way of faking a 9/11 to frame Syria. Even reading something that irresponsibly stated is insulting. I'm beginning to agree with the reviewed registrations. Hows about thinking before hitting "Post Reply".



posted on Mar, 22 2005 @ 01:46 PM
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Did I read this right? Uninformed, unconsenting passengers?

So if I'm one of these "mules" and they find a "device", next thing I know there are armed guards being called, I'm getting a body-cavity search, and more than likely, arrested while all this is being straightened out? Obviously they don't follow the "mules" or the guy wouldn't have found it there in Germany. So how do they keep this from turning into a cluster#?

If an arrest is made before it's cleared,. it is still on my record-an arrest for a federal offense. Then the hassle, if even possible, of clearing that record. Even unfounded accusatiosn can be brought back to haunt you if you're ever involced in a child custody issue or anything.

Something stinks here. Is it an attempt at a frame up? Or government intelligence in action?



posted on Mar, 22 2005 @ 07:23 PM
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Originally posted by CmptrN3rd5
I dont know about this one. Smells really fishy to me. Maybe Israeli was planning a 911 of their own and then blame it on Syria or something.


No, I dont think thats it. But I dont think they thought this through all to well. I tshould have been in the luggage of an employee of this operation. Almost stupid how they did this.



posted on Mar, 22 2005 @ 08:01 PM
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Having flown in and out of Israel as well as other Middle Eastern countries and European Countries, the pre-boarding screening process at Ben Gurion in Tel Aviv was the most intense I've ever experienced. They searched every bag passing through, you had a one on one interview with a serious and un-friendly screener at a podium in a special room, scanned up and down with wands and detectors, etc. They weren't playing. This was all before 9/11 on a flight not even heading to the US directly. This was in response to the domestic terrorism they deal with in Israel/Palestine I can only imagine what a flight into Washington DC from Tel Aviv would go through now.

For comparison, on a post 9/11 flight from Finland to Philadelphia, my passport got red carded and I was sent to Immigration. When asked if there were any US Citizens in the room, I went up to declare myself a citizen. After a few minutes of a confused looking guard going through the computer, another employee came up to see what the deal was. "Oh," he says. "Thats Jane Smith? I had a Sarah Smith earlier and must have deleted her records by mistake. Hee hee." They all had a laugh at the woops and just let me go on through. I wonder if it would have been as easy if I had looked or was from another ethnic group or nationality than the guards/agents.

After a flight to and from Florida, I discovered a swiss army knife in my carry on tucked away from a trip years ago. I got on and off TWO flights without a word being said. If I had known I had it I would have left it at home, I just wasn't aware until I unpacked. Personally, I have no problem with anyone carrying on a swiss army knife or nail clippers etc. A pencil or a tray table can be just as deadly if someone was determined to hurt another passenger or worse.

On the whole, I still feel safe flying and travelling abroad. No amount of security and screening will stop an attack if a group is determined enough to make it happen. There are always cracks to slip through and exceptions to the rules. I'm sure there are more than a few accidental weapons on every flight in and out of this country - fake guns, real guns or swiss army knives.



posted on Mar, 23 2005 @ 01:27 AM
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Uh, sorry there seems to be a lack of knowledge as to how some such operations would work.

Contraband is inserted into passenger 123's bag. Screeners are given the bag along with the others, and nothing looks suspicious because it, in fact, IS one of the "others." If the whole bag is a plant you will not have the same effect. The key here is to have the screeners find the object. At which point the drill would be revealed. In the event of the bag passing through undetected, again the drill would be revealed and the appropriate action would be taken against the snoozing screeners. Under no circumstances are "weapons" (acknowledge that they are fakes) suddenly thrown into the responsibility of an unsuspecting/unbriefed passenger who would risk arrest and detainment for it.

That would be the proper procedure. Admittedly, something went wrong in the cited case.

[edit on 3-23-2005 by Djarums]



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