Fast food: Is it acceptable sometimes or no?

a reply to: tanstaafl

They are mainly discussing that one achieve perfect, vital health on a meat only diet.

Thanks, well then, I will need to look more deeply into their online information.

I'll believe you that they each believe in that basic premise.

I only did a cursory web search of each person and I posted what I was finding at first glance: Legit info on fasting, weight loss etc. which is accurate and realistic, thankfully, but I haven't yet seen a compelling case for the premise of meat-only being the best diet, i.e. the diet to "achieve perfect, vital health" as you just stated.

The only idea to that effect, which I saw early on, was the statement of plant toxins being avoided by not eating plants. Which is technically true, but I didn't see it explained WHY plant toxins would be the big effort to avoid, and I probably can't be convinced of it. Though I'd still like to learn more exactly why this line of thinking has developed like this.

You are missing another important point.

The animal based toxins are externally sourced - the antibiotics, the hormones and grains they are force fed to increase body weight, the lack of sunshine, free pastures to roam with clean grass without pesticides, etc etc ad nauseum.

Meaning, they have no naturally occurring toxins.

Plant based toxins also have external toxins (pesticides, etc), but they also have naturally occurring toxins that you can't escape. Some can be minimized by cooking, and people have differing tolerances to different ones, but almost all plants have some level of toxins that you can't get away from.

I think you're taking accurate information, but you're interpreting things differently from me, which is fine.

The idea of meat not containing toxins is compelling inasmuch as our own bodies are made of meat, so then logically, consuming more of the same stuff that we're made of... is going to be harmonious just because it's so similar to our own bodies.

And it won't have foreign toxins either, because it's such similar stuff to our own body mass.


^These ideas have a logical appeal to them, in an automatic way. If we're only eating meat, then automatically we're avoiding any potential toxins or adverse reactions, to a world of veg foods, of all kinds.

So yes, it's logical and automatically true, as far as that goes. It's why I acknowledged that it DOES make sense for a person suffering health problems, of unknown cause, then yes, it makes perfect sense to try the meat-only diet, and see if it clears up the problems, and helps figure out the actual causes of the health problems.

So I'm acknowledging how this all makes good sense but I think there's also some underlying leap of belief in... plants apparently being TERRIBLE, dangerously toxic. I think it's a leap that's off track. Even though I acknowledged the accuracy of several ideas that each person mentions... short of that one leap, which is apparently the underlying basis of their beliefs and your beliefs.

I think it's a leap that's basically impossible to prove or even try to prove, in a meaningful way... though like I've said, I'm glad that basically everything else short of that, seems realistic and accurate, re: things like fasting, diet changing for clearing up health problems, etc.

(I haven't read or responded to the entire length of your posts so I will continue later on.)

So to continue and build onto my last post:


I acknowledged the logical appeal of the outlook.



However, I think this is really a fundamental different outlook that we have.

Because regardless that I acknowledged how it seems appealing in certain ways:




I actually think that the self-evident truth is that meat itself actually DOES contain many toxins which are poison to us, actually BECAUSE they are basically the same things as what's in our bodies. Ingesting things like the animals' stress hormones, for example, are logical that such hormones probably WILL affect our own bodies, quite the same way, as in the animals themselves.

That is, the livestock stress hormones, should be expected to work quite the same in our bodies, so therefore the animals' hormones etc. should be considered poison. Eating meat is literally consuming their chemicals of their stress and misery, which obviously do have chemical / hormonal presence. This also means that logically, eating meat SHOULD prefer the livestock to be happy, simply so the consumer is eating more happy chemicals and hormones, instead of those coming from miserable life.

Anyways, that's my outlook, that meat is infinitely more poisonous simply because our bodies will react the same way to the livestock's hormones, chemicals etc.

In my mind, veg foods are the opposite, because they are lacking animal products like that, and are therefore the healthiest food possible. While plants have their hormones and chemicals, it's such a different life-form that our bodies are not going to be reacting exactly the same as plants do. There's no comparison to eating meat with direct consumption of chemicals etc. which will have direct effects on our own bodies, reacting quite the same as the animals' bodies.

But anyways, it's a fundamental point of different outlook, we both think that the opposite diet is more toxic, and we both have different reasons for thinking so...

So it's probably the best potential of the conversation, to boil it down to such fundamental different outlooks like this, lol.

(I still need to finish reading and responding to the rest of what was earlier posted.)

^ Continued:

Not to mention the literal germs and microbes etc. which are inherently inside meat. These are things which affect our bodies the same way. Obviously meat just needs to be cooked thoroughly, lol, I know. But even once it's cooked to the point of being sterilized, even then meat getting older will still have the potential of germs etc. growing which are directly poisonous to our own bodies (as meat-based germs, microbes etc.).


...



In comparison... veg food really cannot have germs or microbes that directly affect us, like that, lol.

Even eating some bad produce, the worst case scenario still will not involve eating germs & microbes which will directly affect our body, like that.

This is another aspect of veg diet being infinitely cleaner altogether. It's completely avoiding ingesting all meat-based stuff that could directly impact the consumer's body.

(I hope I explained it in a way that makes sense.)

a reply to: tanstaafl

Plant based toxins also have external toxins (pesticides, etc), but they also have naturally occurring toxins that you can't escape. Some can be minimized by cooking, and people have differing tolerances to different ones, but almost all plants have some level of toxins that you can't get away from.

Here I'm being a little redundant, but to recap: I think this is the leap of faith / leap of belief, which can't really be objectively established as meaningful. That is, the belief that veg. foods are extremely toxic in general, and should therefore be avoided.

Especially compared to the self-evident truth of meat actually being completely more toxic to us, as per its animal-based germs, microorganisms, animal hormones & chemicals, etc.

However, I am going to read more about the doctors mentioned because I want to see why exactly this line of thinking has caught on like this.

But first impressions are that each doctor is on-point with a handful of things like fasting, weight-loss, etc. but yet these accurate concepts don't establish the one big leap of faith against veg. food, altogether, imo.

The problem is, once someone has incorporated an idea to the point it becomes a religion (not saying you have, but I'm starting to wonder), it is almost impossible for them to change it.

^Well I do have a religious / spiritual part of it, as I mentioned a while back, but then I thought I was being too scattered so I focused the conversation more directly on the topics of food itself.

But spiritually, yes I think Buddhism is correct that... animal suffering matters, and conversely, animal happiness and well-being matters. It's a bit of a spiritual leap of faith but it's one that I am entrenched in believing in. So it's automatic for me to want to avoid eating meat, as I want animals to be happy and not suffer. This is basically the teaching from Buddhism... that PLUS the belief that OPTIMAL HEALTH actually comes from vegetarianism. I'd say those are the 2 big teachings on diet, from Buddhism, these last 2,600 years (with untold millions of vegetarians created from Buddhism teaching that).

HOWEVER, this idealism about diet, from Buddhism... only can be considered IF it's established that we don't need to eat meat, in the 1st place. Which is basically why the conversation has become mainly settled on trying to figure out exactly why or why not, humans really need to eat meat... or not.


Because if we really need to eat meat, then there'd be no possibility to consider vegetarianism as an option.



However, I do think that that's the impossible leap, to decide that humans really DO need meat. Which is basically where the conversation is settled on, for now, and I will read more about the mentioned doctors because I'm curious about all of this.

And I think I need to finish reading / responding to posts.

originally posted by: JamesChessman
a reply to: tanstaafl
... but I think there's also some underlying leap of belief in... plants apparently being TERRIBLE, dangerously toxic. I think it's a leap that's off track. Even though I acknowledged the accuracy of several ideas that each person mentions... short of that one leap, which is apparently the underlying basis of their beliefs and your beliefs.

No, it isn't, you are mis-reading what I'm saying.

Yes, I'm saying all plants have some level of toxins because it is true (there may be a few exceptions, there almost always are exception to rules like this), but it varies from species to species to species, genus to genus, etc.

Most people have no problems filtering and eliminating the toxins, but it depends on the load, and the health of their body/ detox organs/pathways, (liver, kidneys, gastro-intestinal tract, skin (surprisingly to many, this is actually the body's largest eliminative pathway) etc.

Then, some people are far more sensitive to certain plant toxins than others, and figuring out which ones can be a nightmare using old established techniques. The carnivore diet is a new - and far superior - way to determine food allergies. Because it has now been proven to be extremely safe and healthy even when used long term (many many years, there are carnivores that have been eating pure carnivore for 15-20+ years), even if you only want to use it temporarily, it is the safest and most effective way to quickly eliminate any/all symptoms of food allergies, then you simply slowly start reintroducing your favorite non animal foods, one at a time, giving each at least a few days, if not a week or more, before moving on to the next one. I'll be reintroducing rice, broccoli, asparagus, mushrooms, and a few others, over the next few weeks.months, but I'm in no hurry.

I think it's a leap that's basically impossible to prove or even try to prove,

The only problem with this thought is it is not one that has been in any way suggested. You manufactured it out of thin air, then spent a lot of time and effort in debunking something that neither I nor anyone else has posited.

I'm glad that basically everything else short of that, seems realistic and accurate, re: things like fasting, diet changing for clearing up health problems, etc.

Then it appears we are in total agreement, so...

(I haven't read or responded to the entire length of your posts so I will continue later on.)

No worries/hurry, I'm quite enjoying the conversation (sorry if some of my replies seem short/curt, sometimes I come off that way online, but I assure you I don't mean it that way, it is just the result of my refusal to sugar-coat or engage in fluffy feel-good conversations.).

originally posted by: JamesChessman
a reply to: tanstaafl
"Plant based toxins also have external toxins (pesticides, etc), but they also have naturally occurring toxins that you can't escape. Some can be minimized by cooking, and people have differing tolerances to different ones, but almost all plants have some level of toxins that you can't get away from."

Here I'm being a little redundant, but to recap: I think this is the leap of faith / leap of belief, which can't really be objectively established as meaningful. That is, the belief that veg. foods are extremely toxic in general, and should therefore be avoided.

See my previous reply explaining this fallacious ass-u-me-ption you are focusing on.

Especially compared to the self-evident truth of meat actually being completely more toxic to us, as per its animal-based germs, microorganisms, animal hormones & chemicals, etc.

False premise, because you refuse to distinguish between grass fed/finished animal foods raised and slaughtered humanely, and the big commercial factories that treat their animals like sheet, and feed them nothing but toxic garbage (including other animal products that goes totally against their nature).

The same goes for plant farming too, but there are completely different problems.

There is literally gobs of real science proving, not just showing but proving the extraordinarily healthful nature of high quality animal foods.

However, I am going to read more about the doctors mentioned because I want to see why exactly this line of thinking has caught on like this.

Please don't stop trying to understand it all (especially, don't let my inability to describe things in a way that you can understand them stop you)... as long as you're willing to look, and try, I think you'll eventually get there.

But first impressions are that each doctor is on-point with a handful of things like fasting, weight-loss, etc. but yet these accurate concepts don't establish the one big leap of faith against veg. food, altogether, imo.

You're making progress, but have a long, long way to go.

They have all of the research - real science, not fake (like the garbage that claims that animal based food production is threatening the life of the planet).

Because if we really need to eat meat, then there'd be no possibility to consider vegetarianism as an option.

I never said that anyone has to eat meat to be healthy, but is extremely difficult to be healthy on a 100%veg diet. And there is no question that animal based foods are what are responsible for the massive growth of our brain power that brought us out of the stone age.

Also, there are extremely few veg athletes that can even remotely compete at the same level as carnivores. the ones that do - well, let's just say I'm mildly skeptical of their claim of being 100% veg. There have been many, many virue signaling vegans that have been caught eating big steaks and/or other animal foods.

a reply to: tanstaafl

I guess you missed the point that almost all current carnivores did, many for many years, meny even fighting trying the carnivore for philosophical reason... until they did, and the results they had simply could not be ignored.

In point of fact, Dr. Saladino was raw vegan, and only tried carnivore to disprove it, initially planning on staying on it a short time.

OK I watched his short video and... it's a funny video, deliberately so, and it may seem a persuasive clip. It's a slight bit of comedy, in it.

But we need to be as realistic as possible.

And that means that we need to admit that the guy's described CRAZY vegan diet... is honestly his own crazy diet lol!! That is, we can't blame his crazy past diet... on the fact of being vegetarian. Because most vegetarians are not going crazy with all the stuff he was saying lol.

And if we're honest, that's the implication, and it's a wrong implication.

Plus he was a RAW dieter and that's a whole different dimension, it's basically a whole diet all by itself.

So this is like a caricature of what being a vegetarian is, lol.

For example, I've been mostly vegan for the last 22 years or so. And yet I never did kale shakes which sound disgusting lol.

I've actually only known ONE person who made her own shakes and she wasn't even a vegetarian, she just happened to be a lovely housemate for a brief time, who just happened to enjoy making her own shakes each day, with fresh frozen fruit thrown in with other stuff, it was great! But she did eat a pretty normal diet with meat etc.

But so that's just one example of the caricature of that vid clip. I've known several vegetarians and never heard of kale smoothies, BARF!! And the only person that I've ever known to make smoothies, was not a vegetarian.


...


Also I think we need to clarify what the conversation really is here. Because I think we may be talking past each other, or talking about a different conversation, sometimes, maybe.

So just to clear things:

My original topic was that I was feeling gross from eating McDonald's fries and BK veggie burgers for a few weeks there. It seemed clear that it was the cause of my ill feelings, and I do think that that is correct. But thankfully, this issue has cleared up a while ago, because I have simply been avoiding the bad habit of fast food altogether. The last time I got coffee + fries like 3 or 4 times, and I got a few disgusting spots of acne on my body, so I f*cking quit for good, lol. Nowadays the original issue is not an issue anymore.

Unrelated is that I went through some drama with losing my car, a few months ago, thus losing $$ income, + losing access to good fresh produce etc. and my normal high-quality grocery store. This was a saga all by itself, as I went through a solid 6 weeks of NOT being able to buy good food, quite often, and I was running out of money etc.

I think the randomness of different foods, at that point, became the new main problem, as I had trouble with my digestive system being upset, among malnutrition and random weird foods, like canned veggies and frozen stuff etc.

But thankfully since mid-June or so, I've regained access to my fav. grocery store again. So now I am generally feeling pretty good, feeling nourished, and I feel like I'm cleansing with drinking tons of tea. Nothing in it.

I do feel like I still need more cleansing, and my dig. system still can't seem to decide what I really want to eat, oftentimes, but I think the overall trend is good, for more cleansing and feeling increasingly more nourished and healthy.

So I'm mostly in a good place and getting better.

So that clears up the original topic.

I mainly think it was the hydrogenated oil that was f*cking up my body and giving me disgusting spots of irritated skin, back when I was eating fast food, but it's thankfully all over now.




...





Alright so beyond the original topic being closed now, I think we're losing clarity on what we are really talking about lol.




For one thing, I did basically read the whole thread, and looked at everything linked or posted within the thread.

Plus I did a quick web search of the doctors mentioned.

Now the point that we may have lost the same conversation, maybe, is that I thought you were going to show me PROOF that people really NEED to eat meat.

However, having gone thru the whole thread and done quick look-ups of your suggested doctors: I don't think anyone or anything has established a NEED for humans to eat meat.

...Now maybe there are misunderstandings because I thought that you were going to provide proof that humans need meat. That's my main focus and the fact is, that I still have not seen proof of this supposed need.

I still don't believe it, that human beings require eating meat.

^To me, that IS the one main issue.




Like I described earlier, Buddhism teaches that: 1. We don't need to eat meat. 2. So therefore we should not do it, because it's a terrible animal suffering for something that's NOT physically necessary.

So I hope I've described it in a way that is understandable because it's mainly how I look at the topic.




I could go on, but maybe this is a good point for you to respond, and let me know if we are on the same page as for what we're discussing.




For what it's worth, you're posting things that are interesting, while not proving to me that humans need meat. But I've acknowledged that there's a lot of accurate info about fasting, about low-carb diet and weight loss, etc. I acknowledged the accuracy of such info as I read it. So I recognize that all this stuff is accurate but beyond that, there's no proof of an absolute physical NEED for meat.

And for what it's worth, I think that their "carnivore" diet... could have a reasonable vegan equivalent IF we were focusing on the actual nutrition itself.

Because there is veg. food which is low-carb and high-protein etc. so I don't think such a diet is limited to only meat-eaters anyhow.


To boil down the doctors and their info, I think that: 1. They are accurate about several aspects of diet but: 2. I think they also must just really love eating meat.


These are 2 separate elements. I'm just sayin'. Their own diets are accurate in several ways except I see no reason why a veg. couldn't do the equivalent by planning his diet according to their principles of low-carb, high-protein, occasional fasting + exercise, etc.


(Now going to finish reading / responding to the last couple recent posts.)

Sorry that my last comment seems overly verbose and redundant in its wording. Can't edit it, now, after the fact.


...I think that I should have used BETTER phrasing in my last post.




When I was discussing whether or not human beings have a real NEED for eating meat...

What I should have said was that: I WANT OPTIMAL HEALTH, myself, and I believe it's possible as a vegan. I certainly don't want sub-par health or nutrition.





So that's the way that I'm discussing whether it's a need or not. I meant in terms of attaining optimal health, whether we need it or not.

Because I still don't believe we need it for optimal health.

And if I DID think it was needed for optimal health, then I would eat it. But the fact is that I still don't believe it or see evidence of that.


........



I do agree that meat-eaters can be reasonably healthy, though, and I already acknowledged that the linked doctors are legit re: low-carb weight-loss, and intermittent fasting, etc.




.........




Anyway to really boil it down to specific foods: Can't a vegan do the same diet essentially, as what the doctors are describing?


Like instead of meat-only: Can't I do the same thing by focusing on veg. foods of no carbs and high protein, high fat? Like almonds, commonly called a "superfood," which IDK if that's a legit terminology or not, but couldn't someone focus on almonds and other similar foods, and do the same basic diet as the linked doctors?

I'm honestly asking what you think, or what the doctors think about that.






........







Myself, I've been feeling good lately, focusing on jasmine RICE and various additions like black beans etc.

I've heard that rice + beans are supposedly both half of a complete protein nutrition, by themselves, and combined, rice & beans is supposed to be 100% complete protein.


And then there are things like TOFU which is basically just soybeans, made into a nice form. High protein, low-carb, high nutrition, etc.


So like why can't a vegan equivalent of the diet, work out? Instead of meat only? Why not veg. low carb, high-protein & fat?

(Also I'm going to try again, but my first attempt was unsuccessful, for Photorec extracting my old content, from my previously internal HDD, which is now on my desk as an external HDD, plugged in via USB.

Photorec's first attempt only recovered a small bit of content.

But I know that Photorec itself has at least one or two other ways to try. Like I know the target drive has at least a couple different options, with an "r" thrown into the title of the target HDD, for example.

Which I'm not sure what exactly it stands for, but I know it's at least a different option for the target HDD, and so I assume it's for 2nd+ attempts, when the 1st normal attempt doesn't work out. [I'd guess the "r" probably stands for "root," and so... it sounds like it might be a slower, more thorough process? Getting at the "root" of the problem lol. Again major wishful thinking here, I know, lol.]

Also the HDD seems to show more content, the longer it's running, so I left it connected for a long time, continuously, like a week plus... and that alone might help the process, when I eventually try a 2nd attempt.

Also I'm wondering if the USB format itself might be a bottle-neck, which might be a problem. I recently got a phone cable that's USB-C for my phone, and lightning connection to my Mac, and it's a completely FASTER, better connection, altogether.

So I'm thinking of buying a new case and cable, for the glitched external HDD... because maybe a lightning cable connection... might help my Mac see its old content, maybe. In the sense that it might be such fast connection and processing that maybe, it might help my old stuff be processed and accessible. Major wishful thinking here, lol!!

Anyway I know Photorec has at least a couple different ways to try using it, so I'm going to try it again soon with the normal USB connection.





So I'm going to keep messing with it but let me know if you have any input, please and thank you.

As I think I've mentioned, the glitched drive does have content that's important to me, like old photos etc.

And plus I really don't think the content was destroyed, so we'll see...)

And re: Buddhism:

To clarify, Buddhism absolutely DOES teach that we should be vegetarian...

But also Buddhism starts with a time-warp back 2,600 years, so they weren't really thinking of diet, as we do now, in terms of specific vitamins etc. Obviously they were thinking in terms of different whole foods, basically.


And so I think it's implicit that OPTIMAL health comes from vegetarianism, according to Buddhism. I think it's fair to say but ALSO it's not usually the exact angle that's usually emphasized. Usually it's the animal suffering that's emphasized as the reason to avoid eating meat, to avoid that unnecessary suffering.

And then the basic life teachings include vegetarianism as the optimal way of life and health (such as the Noble Eightfold Path including vegetarian diet, IIRC, or at least normally interpreted to mean that, IIRC).


So I think it's usually considered implicit that Buddhism is teaching that optimal physical health comes from vegetarian diet. but obviously they weren't exactly discussing specifics like protein needs, or vitamins needs etc., back then.

Like obviously they had different conceptual framework of diet, altogether, is what I'm trying to say lol. Though I think they were right about veg. diet... beyond their limited understanding of nutrition etc., 2.6 millennia ago.

originally posted by: JamesChessman
Hey I can imagine the various responses but I thought it might be interesting to hear from people anyway.

I’ve grown a bad habit of getting fast food from McDonald’s and Burger King but the good thing is that my choices are limited to coffee (black), and fries, and BK has decent veggie burgas.

So I wonder if people think that this might be OK for my health, considering that I’m still vegetarian and I’m basically eating the best possible things from each place lol.

Or do you guys think I’m still harming my health with this?

The worst thing about this habit might just be the obvious high fat of the fries etc. being cooked, and also high sodium, but I could care less about that!!

But I’m wondering if people think that there’s something else wrong with it lol, like do you think the cooking oil itself has some problem beyond the fact of being oil? Do u imagine toxic chemicals or something in the fries and veggie burgers?

I imagine the coffee is pretty harmless unless people have a specific reason to think that there’s something wrong with it?

Asking because I actually do think that it’s making me feel kind of gross lol but I can’t quite decide what exactly it is...

There is nothing decent about fast food. Have you ever left McDonald's fries out? They do not mold or anything, it makes you wonder what is really in them.. They stay the same... Also my pet rats will eat anything and I mean anything BUT they didn't want McD's fries, nor Wendy's or Chick Fil A. They don't like fast food at all! I think fast food is fine in moderation like all things. I eat organic and pretty damn healthy but sometimes I crave a burger from Wendy's or fries from McD's. I always pay for it with the shakes after I eat it but damn it tastes good. I have fast food maybe 3-5 times a year and most of the time I never finish it because fast food makes me shake with all the additives in it.

If you tend to eat healthier then eating fast food will make you feel like crap.

originally posted by: mblahnikluver

originally posted by: JamesChessman
Hey I can imagine the various responses but I thought it might be interesting to hear from people anyway.

I’ve grown a bad habit of getting fast food from McDonald’s and Burger King but the good thing is that my choices are limited to coffee (black), and fries, and BK has decent veggie burgas.

So I wonder if people think that this might be OK for my health, considering that I’m still vegetarian and I’m basically eating the best possible things from each place lol.

Or do you guys think I’m still harming my health with this?

The worst thing about this habit might just be the obvious high fat of the fries etc. being cooked, and also high sodium, but I could care less about that!!

But I’m wondering if people think that there’s something else wrong with it lol, like do you think the cooking oil itself has some problem beyond the fact of being oil? Do u imagine toxic chemicals or something in the fries and veggie burgers?

I imagine the coffee is pretty harmless unless people have a specific reason to think that there’s something wrong with it?

Asking because I actually do think that it’s making me feel kind of gross lol but I can’t quite decide what exactly it is...

There is nothing decent about fast food. Have you ever left McDonald's fries out? They do not mold or anything, it makes you wonder what is really in them.. They stay the same... Also my pet rats will eat anything and I mean anything BUT they didn't want McD's fries, nor Wendy's or Chick Fil A. They don't like fast food at all! I think fast food is fine in moderation like all things. I eat organic and pretty damn healthy but sometimes I crave a burger from Wendy's or fries from McD's. I always pay for it with the shakes after I eat it but damn it tastes good. I have fast food maybe 3-5 times a year and most of the time I never finish it because fast food makes me shake with all the additives in it.

If you tend to eat healthier then eating fast food will make you feel like crap.

Thanks, I'm over it, thankfully. Fast-food was a bad habit for like a month when I made the thread. But now I'm just not going for it.


I was probably craving actual fried potatoes and hot coffee, which I can make at home.

I think it was probably the hydrogenated oil which was causing some terrible skin irritations. I never eat hydrogenated products and I had never really expected them in fast-food, as it's so unnecessary. But it was probably one of the big problems for my body. Plus the unknown slew of chemicals, as you said.



...



Myself, I'm doing good eating jasmine rice as kind of my central food lately, and adding other stuff to it. I think this is how rice is meant to be eaten as a staple food.

It is slightly heavy to kind of balance the dig. system, when focused on rice as a staple. Plus it feels nourishing after eating. I think I've found a key here, to healthy diet, plus affordable diet. I am not spending much $$ on new food because I am generally feeling nourished and not feeling hungry... apparently from the full nutrition of the rice etc.


My life was originally based on frequently eating pasta, and while I can enjoy pasta, there's something special about the feeling of nourishment from rice, instead.

Also I think this may be why the locals in Cancun, Mexico seemed so slim to me, maybe it's their emphasis on rice in their diet!

There's something magic and life-giving about rice. I've heard that in Asian languages, RICE is considered a symbol of LIFE itself.

IDK if anyone is still interested in the conversation but one thing that's related is that I recently splurged a bit off my normal diet. I was in the feeling of wanting more nutrition and not sure where I wanted it from.

I tried a dozen eggs, which I actually have some bit of nostalgia for eggs, toast, coffee. Which can really come together quite nicely lol.

But beyond that, if we're honest, there's a certain amount of stinkiness with eggs, and I don't think there's any way around that. I mean, compared to being vegan, and suddenly frying up eggs a few times, it's a huge difference.

And this is a theme with animal products in general. If we're honest, they usually have an element of smelling / tasting bad, at least a tiny bit. Also, we become more sensitive to this, the longer we are just being vegan, away from animal products. The bad taste / smell becomes much more pronounced to vegetarians.

...

Anyways, the bottom line is that I tried a few animal products and I never happened to feel the nourishment I was craving. Though I did enjoy everything, at least for the most part.

But bottom-line, I never quite got the nourished feeling that I was craving, and animal products simply do have that element of smelling / tasting bad, especially for the sensitive longtime vegetarians.


...


So I ate a few eggs + toast + coffee, mostly enjoyed it, but got sick of it quick and gave the last few eggs to my cats.

I bought a chunk of traditional aged cheese similar to brie (so it's soft cheese within a wax shell, that I guess just holds it during the aging process, apparently). Enjoyed it with bread + coffee, it did feel nourishing but didn't hit the spot that I was craving. And the stinkiness involved is gross, lol.

Also I dug into some high-quality fish, while craving nutrition, and I believe this was actually the first thing of all (before the eggs and cheese). Again I enjoyed it, and felt nourished somewhat, yet not hitting the spot for me that I was craving. And in terms of smell / taste, and probably healthiness, I think fish is probably better than eating eggs or cheese anyway, though all these things do have some obvious nutritional value. Fish probably had the least stinkiness compared to eggs, cheese.

However, not only did none of these things hit, for my craving state: Plus, nothing even balanced out my dig. system. I think eggs + toast + coffee went through my system OK, while the cheese probably was overly constipating, and the fish seemed to blast through my system too much (possibly rejected from my vegan system as unfamiliar).

Btw I started with some nice expensive slab of smoked salmon: I was really craving nutrition lol and not knowing what exactly would hit.

And while none of these animal products hit, each one has at least some value imo, to try once in a while, if someone wants to see if it just might hit their nutritional craving. There's also elements of history and tradition and such.

Anyway smoked salmon is interesting lol, though it didn't hit. I also had some high-quality tuna fish, canned in olive oil, which is decent, but really the oil is the best thing imo, and it's better with vegan food lol.

So nothing hit, but I'm glad to refresh my experience / understanding of these foods, once in a while.

It's the human predicament, really, we are usually craving things that we probably don't even know exactly what we're craving, so we try random things to see if it might hit, and it's easy to get into wrong foods / wrong things altogether.


...


Finally, what DID eventually hit for me recently is more raw vegan food, especially baby bok choy has been a very unexpected treat lately, just eating it raw with salt on it. I never thought of this but the nourished feeling has seemed just great.

Also just other various raw vegan food has felt great, though not as weird as raw bok choy, but it's so easy to get away from eating raw food altogether. So it's felt great to emphasize this in my diet lately. Chomping carrots, or apples, or salad etc. seems to feel great to me. It seems I can feel the still-living life-energy, absorbing into my body, though most people probably assume that's not possible to really feel that, lol. But I think so.