Fast food: Is it acceptable sometimes or no?

originally posted by: JamesChessman

originally posted by: rickymouse
a reply to: JamesChessman

We are omnivours, and in fact because of the way our brains have developed, we seem to have been scavengers because we need higher percentages of our foods either aged...partially rotted....or cooked...partially rotted. We could substitute some specially prepared nuts for the protein...roasted...and some fungus could provide the needed special chemistry we need to fuel our brain function. Vegetarians have to rely on supplements or eat lots of fermented food to think at full capacity. There are some special soy chemistries that can supply what we need, but most people cannot properly live symbiotically with microbes needed to convert veggies. Vegetarians have recently been found to have weaker bones, not enough collagen can be produced to make non-brittle bones. Animals that eat only veggies can produce that collagen but remember, that collagen can come from the bacteria present on plants naturally too, and we cannot tolerate some of those microbes.

Omnivors have an immune system that can eat aged foods, many bacteria are destroyed by our digestive system and some of those are necessary if you don't eat meats. That is what I have come to a conclusion on, man is not designed to eat raw meat, either cooked or rotted under specific conditions. We are not carnivores, we are omnivores.

Thanks for your input but obviously I don’t agree with your outlook.

I won’t try to argue the specific nutrients that you mentioned, because I haven’t focused on those specific things like collagen etc.

However I absolutely believe that we can get full nutrition as vegetarians; i.e. I don’t believe we need meat for nutrition at all.

CATS need meat lol. But not humans, ideally.

...

We should also take note that many giant powerful animals are vegetarian. Including our closest primates, they’re all essentially herbivores (aside from some occasional scavenging of dead animals or whatever, which is very minimal, and not a major food source for our primate relatives).

It includes chimpanzees as our closest relatives. They’re mainly herbivores and they’re like 20 TIMES stronger than us, lol.

Not to mention our less close relatives, even bigger: Gorillas live on fruit, despite their massive size and strength.

Even cattle are herbivores, as huge as they are, they live on grass and corn etc.

I’m just pointing out the many animals that far exceed us, living on plants!

Like if gorillas and cattle etc. don’t need to eat meat, then it’s a pretty obvious clue that we should be vegetarian too.


...


That’s the physical aspect.

You also said that vegetarians have trouble thinking with our lack of nutrients but that’s just silly lol.

The world is already full of people who are dumb and miserable lol and they mostly all eat meat.

Heck the world is also full of unhealthy people and they mostly all eat meat lol.

So meat is clearly not improving people’s intelligence lol. As you basically suggested.

We can see that most people are pretty stagnant and lame, in their intelligence, and in their physical health too.



...

However I do think that you’re illustrating that for many or most people: Eating meat is just assumed as necessary for nutrition.

So it’s really a FEAR of lack of nutrition... which compels people to just always eat meat, without questioning it, for most people.

It comes from fears about health and nutrition!! It might be the single biggest reason that most people do eat meat...

A very important amino acid, taurine, does not exist in veggies, it is conditional so if we have all of the nutrients we need to make it and proper amounts of the enzyme to make it, we can make it. Cats cannot make it because they lack the enzyme to produce it, so they are considered carnivours. Taurine is not heat stable so they add taurine to cat foods because it is processed which involves heat high enough to destroy the amino acid. When people get sick or when they get old, the enzymes to produce taurine are not there in enough quantity to supply our body. If we cook the meat too much taurine is destroyed too. It takes the enzyme sulfite oxidase to utilize taurine even from meat, but it takes a lot more if we create the taurine. That sulfite oxydase requires a coenzyme to create and how much we make is determined by our genetics. The molybdenum coenzymes help to create sulfite oxidase, but also the same coenzymes create the enzymes that process nitrites formed by eating leafy green veggies and anything high in nitrates. They also create the enzymes that are needed for one carbon metabolism. Too much of a combination of all three leads to a deficiency in taurine. Silimaron is a similar plant based product, but it is not usable by us without enough sulfite oxidase.

Vegetarians need to eat adequate whole grains or seeds to be able to get enough molybdenum, molybdenum is shuffled to certain parts of the plants, it is not found in the leaves at very high levels. Some foods like broccoli have more, because it is the seed bearing part that forms seeds later on. But it is also high in nitrates and sulfates which turn into nitrites and sulfites during digestion....so you cannot get caught up with that.

There are vegetarians that know what I know and they usually just explain what to eat, not the full way that things work. I suppose if I was teaching someone about this that does not understand physiology as well as I do, I would just try to explain things to them. The problem comes when they grow things on overtaxed soils, the molybdenum chemicals get used up. Part of Miracle grow is a molybdenum chemistry that boosts nitrates and sulfite chemistry in the food, but you use so little that it only stimulates plant growth, and it does not stimulate uptake in the seeds as much. Grains are high in molybdenum usually, but if a person does not have the proper enzymes to take grains apart, they cannot get the molybdenum bioavailable...it is usually in the bran or germ...both of which are removed during processing into white flour.

I could go on for days with this kind of stuff, but all I have to say is that if you are a vegetarian...make sure you get enough of the nutrients to produce the sulfite oxidase completely, or you will slowly deteriorate and your brain will not function properly. A taurine deficiency is usually present in the brains of all alzheimer patients. Also the amino acid glutamine is what we need to keep our brains and digestive system working properly and that is the meat version of the amino acid. For many people they cannot take grains or sugars apart properly and glutamine is essential. Glutamine is not the same as glutamate and glucosamine...similar chemistries but not always able to be interchanged. If you eat a lot of glutamine it is good to consume inhibitors of glutiminase to keep inflamation from getting bad, inhibiting the glutamine from turning to glutamate helps to balance things. Sulforafame is good for that, so that is how cabbage and brocolli are anticancer compounds, cancer loves glutamate to spread and grow faster.... I read all this fad diet crap on the internet and see it on tv and I just shake my head when they are pushing glutamate chemistries all the time as healthy...feel good chemistry yes, but too much is inflammatory.

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: JamesChessman
a reply to: tanstaafl

Why? On what do you base your 'belief in vegetarianism'?

^Really there are several reasons.

But if u want a most simplified answer:

Buddhism has taught that it’s best to be vegetarian, for 2,600 years.
...snip

Ok, thanks for the explanation.

I disagree of course. Anyone who believes that plants do not 'feel', hasn't read any of the books that provide lots of evidence that they do.

Also, plants, as I explained, almost all have considerable toxins - mostly lectins, and I believe there are others - that they have developed over time because, unlike animals, they are unable to run away from their predators.

Said another way - for those who refuse to eat animals because they are living things - well, plants are living things too. When you eat a plant, you are killing it too.

Anyway, as I've said, we each make our own choices, and have to live with the consequences.

Thanks again for the polite exchange of ideas...

Thank you but it’s not an equivalent (killing plants or killing animals).

While plants are alive and die, they’re otherwise a very different life form.

And we need to kill & eat something, just to stay alive ourselves. We don’t have a choice.

But we have the choice of eating animals or not.

So it’s not a problem in killing & consuming plant foods. It’s clearly the more nonviolent diet, and it’s better for the world, in terms of animal welfare, etc.

...

I’ve heard of plants having “feelings” and I do think they have a primitive type of consciousness.

But we also can’t go overboard with such ideas. Plants don’t have nerves so they don’t feel pain, how animals do. Plus plants don’t have brains, so they don’t have consciousness, as animals do. Plants are a very different life form.

I think that plants’ consciousness is basically “happy” when they have their needs met.

Maybe plants might be “unhappy” when they’re dying in bad conditions, maybe?

However I don’t think my food is unhappy when I’m cutting up broccoli or carrots etc. Even though it’s largely still alive, it also doesn’t seem to be suffering.

I think plants are usually “happy” nearly always. Even if we cut ‘em up, and eat ‘em...

a reply to: tanstaafl

That's just it... there really aren't. There are a ton of people who went vegetarian/vegan (yours truly is one) who had good results for a while - years even - then started going downhill, and it wasn't until they reintroduced animal foods and fats back into their diet that they started getting truly better. Watch some of 'Steak and Butter Gals' videos, she is a recovering vegan who is now carnivore, and there a lot more like her out there.





^ I understand that you believe that eating meat is needed for human health and well-being.

So you know what, I don’t even blame you or anyone for doing things that they believe are needed for their health.

If meat was truly needed for human health... then I would eat it, and there wouldn’t be any moral qualms about it.


However, I believe the self-evident truth is that humans DON’T need to eat meat, usually (although there could be extenuating circumstances).

But for the most part, it’s clear and self evident that most people DON’T need to eat meat, and that they would be healthier without it!

I don’t want to repeat things I’ve already said but... I think the human body itself is very obviously adapted to mainly herbivore diet.

That is: I think the human body is.... naturally adapted for things like picking fruit, and hiding from predators lol.

Physically humans in general are VERY weak and puny, compared to practically any other animals. Indicating that our natural place in the world, is... leaving other animals alone, just look at our puny bodies. We are not naturally predators, at all. Our hands are adapted for climbing trees and picking fruit.

CATS are real genuine predators/ carnivores. They have razor claws to slash & kill prey. And they have four giant fangs to bite through their prey’s neck, and drink its blood.

There’s a VERY big difference between our species, and cats, or any other creatures that are true carnivores.

I hope that I don’t come across in any wrong way.

But I think that our bodies indicate our original role in the natural world.


...


Re: Omnivore status:


Well look, I think that a crystal clear example of a REAL omnivore is... DOGS.

I’ve had both dogs and cats.

Dogs are the real omnivores, not us, lol.

Dogs will happily eat any food. They’ll eat vegetarian stuff and / or they’ll eat meat.

However this does NOT put dogs in the same category as people, even if u really think so, the truth is in the natural body!

So dogs’ omnivore status is self evident BECAUSE they are clearly adapted for some form of hunting / fighting. Jaws for fighting / killing prey.

Dogs are NOT on the level with cats (as genuine carnivores/natural born killers).


HOWEVER, dogs are still fully capable of hunting, killing, eating their prey, with blood splashing everywhere.

That’s true omnivore status, in my perspective.

We ain’t got it.

...


Likewise I know that primates are sometimes labeled as omnivores but I think it’s just the wrong label. For primates and for people. None of us are naturally adapted for hunting prey.

Not even the other primates which are 20 times stronger (for chimps, I believe that’s the figure I’ve heard). Chimps and even the most massive gorillas... still are not naturally adapted for hunting, despite massive strength. Because their strength is for... climbing trees, apparently (and protecting themselves from threats).

As far as I know, there are no primates which even make an effort for hunting!


...

NOW you might be ready to respond with examples of primates eating meat.

I know it happens occasionally, but that’s the thing:

Primates may eat a dead animal, as a rare occasion. It’s scavenger behavior.

And it’s fundamentally different from REAL omnivores like dogs, whose are fully capable of maybe finding a rabbit, and chomping it into a bloody mess.

Primates really don’t do things like that: Most people (and most primates) wouldn’t even think of catching mice or rabbits etc. and eating it, alive. Drinking its hot blood.

It’s a HUGE difference between us, and a real omnivore like a dog.

...

So while primates do sometimes scavenge dead animals, it’s rare (as far as I know).

Which means it’s not a normal food source, or a staple food source... for any primates AFAIK.

A rare snack of finding a carcass... doesn’t count as a substantial food source, for any primates, at all (AFAIK).

It’s so limited and randomly opportunistic, that it’s almost nonexistent, I imagine.

Likewise it’s not really even an omnivore diet, as primates are still all fundamentally living on plants, and it’s really not much difference in nutrition if they might find a dead creature to chew on, once in a while.

Really, how often could that possibly even happen lol. Maybe 3 or 4 times a year or something? My point is that it’s effectively not doing much difference in primates’ nutrition, if they just find a dead bird once in a while, for example.

...


ALSO I’ve heard of some primates that “hunt” their fellow primates...

But I don’t think it’s true that ANY primates have real hunting behavior.

I think it’s more that primates (including humans) are full of violent instincts, against our same kind, if considered a threat.

So THAT’S absolutely true (that primates are full of instincts for violence and war).

But this is distinctly different from HUNTING instincts and behavior.



So, um... Even if primates might eat... a dead primate:

It’s still just scavenger behavior, not hunting behavior.

Plus I believe it’s rare for primates to kill their own species, so the specific chance of cannibalism, is very rare.

I believe most primates’ wars against other tribes of the same species... don’t usually include deaths, in the war.

Primates’ wars may have a bit of fighting, but mostly primates’ tribal wars are based on... running around and throwing things, to intimidate the other group to leave the territory, for example.

...


So primates won’t usually kill their same kind, let alone hunt their own kind, for a snack of cannibalism. It’s really not primate behavior/instincts!

...


Having said all that: I’ve heard about a very strange dynamic between DIFFERENT primate species, if one species is much larger, they may kill & eat the smaller species, sometimes.

I suspect that it’s still not really “hunting,” and it’s more just scavenging the dead, after conflicts erupt, based on territory & resources.

...

NOTE: I did NOT double check every statement I just said (as per my limited web access, right now).

So please correct me if any big mistakes.

(Though I believe my statements are accurate, at least in the main gist of my statements!)

originally posted by: JamesChessman
a reply to: tanstaafl
However, I believe the self-evident truth is that humans DON’T need to eat meat, usually (although there could be extenuating circumstances).

Self-evident? The evidence is pretty strong that we actually do.

I'm not arguing, I have no problem with you believing what you want, but I'll just reiterate one more time...

The evidence supporting an animal fats/protein diet is based on real, actual scientific studies, as well as a huge mass of anecdotal evidence in the form of large numbers of people who tried vegetarian/vegan for many years, some even with an extreme almost militant attitude, who did fairly well at first, some even doing very well, but who then went downhill over time, until they got to the point they had to try something else, and when they simply added animal fats/protein back into their diet, all of their problems went away - every time.

But for the most part, it’s clear and self evident that most people DON’T need to eat meat, and that they would be healthier without it!

No, see above. That is just what you want to believe, so you only see the evidence that supports it.

If you watch the video's of the doctors I referenced, and more importantly, follow their linked research and read the studies, you'll learn the truth.

I don’t want to repeat things I’ve already said but... I think the human body itself is very obviously adapted to mainly herbivore diet.

And yet... it isn't. Compared to a true herbivore's digestive system, like the gorilla, while similar overall, there is an important difference - the lengths and functions of the large and small intestines are actually reversed. The large intestine in the gorilla is much much larger, and secretes a much much higher acid content designed to break down vegetable matter.

I'm not saying it is impossible to maintain reasonable health on a vegetarian/vegan diet, but it is extremely hard, and does require supplementation to avoid the problems that will show up in long term vegans/vegetarians.

Hey I have not yet read the other posts that I haven’t responded to yet, but I think I need to take a step back from the thread for a couple days; I don’t actually usually talk much about diet...

Plus I have seen a lot of references mentioned, over the years, about how some people think it’s terrible to be vegetarian / vegan... which I think probably comes from certain people who are very passionate about certain things, and they must get into arguments, and/ or they do demonstrations which are criticized, etc.

So I know there’s some general idea that vegans are crazy and extreme and argumentative etc.

So I’m kinda waiting for someone to post something like that lol and I can’t even deal with it right now lol.

(And I didn’t catch up on all the posts of the thread yet.)


...


But I’d hope to avoid stuff like that.


Especially that I have not been arguing, and I have not told people how to live their life.


...



I also suspect that my previous posts might have gotten overly scattered... to the extent that some things I posted, could be argued as irrelevant to the main topic of diet.

For example, my thoughts on body traits of humans and animals: Someone could just say that the entire line of thinking is irrelevant.

So then, even if I’m right that humans’ body traits indicate that our ancestors were mostly vegetarian... well, someone could argue that idea. Or even if it’s true, someone could argue that it doesn’t matter lol.


...


So I apologize if my posts might have gotten too scattered or too off-topic.

I think I posted ideas that make sense but I probably drifted too far from the main topic.



...



Re: vegetarianism:


Here, I want to boil it down to its most basic reasons.



And I think the MOST important thing (re: eating meat, or not) is whether... humans actually NEED to, or not.

^ It’s really the HEART of the matter.



If we NEED to eat meat, then we should, of course.

(And there are animals which do need to, apparently.)



...



However, I honestly don’t believe that humans NEED meat, and I do think that our weak bodies are very obvious that most of our ancestors were mostly vegetarian.

Although I don’t want to argue about our traits and their indications of our ancestors’ diet. Even then, someone could just argue that it doesn’t matter anyway, how our ancestors ate... I mean, I think our bodies are self-evident that our most natural way of life is vegetarian, and I think it implies that it’s most healthy... but someone could argue against every aspect of that.





...



So I think it’s MOST boiled down to that question, whether we need to eat meat, or not.



It only becomes a choice to be vegetarian AFTER we conclude that... it really IS a choice.


And I wouldn’t consider it a choice IF it was unhealthy/ harmful.

I just genuinely believe that it’s just the most healthy diet, altogether.

So it’s really the root of the matter.




...






But also, I’ll be surprised if people start arguing that we really do need it.

Because... if something is really objectively true... then it should be self-evident.

So if people are really looking for the objective truth... it should be visible somehow, because there should be signs / indications of the truth, right?

And so, in the most general way possible, I think the evidence should suggest that.

For example, I’ve always heard that America is the MOST meat-eating country in the world... (aside from the possible exception of some small tribes in undeveloped places, who might actually live almost 100% on hunting all the time... which is basically the smallest fringe of modern humanity...).

So in general, I’ve always heard that Americans eat meat more than any other population anywhere.

So the fact is, that the most meat-eating people can have their health compared to the rest of the world, and see what seems different, along the lines of health.

And well... Americans are known to be overweight, and to have certain disorders / diseases, related to it, which are much more rarely seen elsewhere, like Europe.

Obesity, heart problems (I think?), diabetes, etc. I mean, I think the info should be out there, if people look. You could search the web for Americans’ diet compared to Europeans, for example... And then u can look up the top health problems in the US., and see what is most extreme here... and then you can probably link our unique health problems, to our unique diet...

So looking at that aspect, we’re generally fatter than the world... and we can probably connect it to our huge meat consumption as probably the most obvious reason...



...



Also I know that there is biased or wrong information out there, from certain sources, but yet the truth should be visible anyway, if we’re really looking for it. And I think the vast majority of health studies are mostly in favor of vegetarianism...



...




Anyway I’ll look back at the thread in a couple/ few days...

originally posted by: JamesChessman
So in general, I’ve always heard that Americans eat meat more than any other population anywhere.

So the fact is, that the most meat-eating people can have their health compared to the rest of the world, and see what seems different, along the lines of health.

And well... Americans are known to be overweight, and to have certain disorders / diseases, related to it, which are much more rarely seen elsewhere, like Europe.

Obesity, heart problems (I think?), diabetes, etc. I mean, I think the info should be out there, if people look. You could search the web for Americans’ diet compared to Europeans, for example... And then u can look up the top health problems in the US., and see what is most extreme here... and then you can probably link our unique health problems, to our unique diet...

So looking at that aspect, we’re generally fatter than the world... and we can probably connect it to our huge meat consumption as probably the most obvious reason...

Sorry, but there is just sio much wrong with that comparison it isn't even funny.

It has nothing to do with our meat consumption. It has to do with all of the other garbage processed foods, massive sugar consumption, massive fake foods (low fat/no fat/chemicals).

The science has proven that a diet high in healthy animal fats and proteins is one of the healthiest for heart health - yes, totally contrary to the popular myth that cholesterol is bad for you.

Also I know that there is biased or wrong information out there, from certain sources, but yet the truth should be visible anyway, if we’re really looking for it.

Yes, I agree, and it is - and if you take the time to watch - with an open mind - some of the videos I referenced, but more importantly, go look at the studies and research backing up what they are saying - you will be surprised to fine that...

And I think the vast majority of health studies are mostly in favor of vegetarianism...

this statement is woefully, totally wrong.

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: JamesChessman
So in general, I’ve always heard that Americans eat meat more than any other population anywhere.

So the fact is, that the most meat-eating people can have their health compared to the rest of the world, and see what seems different, along the lines of health.

And well... Americans are known to be overweight, and to have certain disorders / diseases, related to it, which are much more rarely seen elsewhere, like Europe.

Obesity, heart problems (I think?), diabetes, etc. I mean, I think the info should be out there, if people look. You could search the web for Americans’ diet compared to Europeans, for example... And then u can look up the top health problems in the US., and see what is most extreme here... and then you can probably link our unique health problems, to our unique diet...

So looking at that aspect, we’re generally fatter than the world... and we can probably connect it to our huge meat consumption as probably the most obvious reason...

Sorry, but there is just sio much wrong with that comparison it isn't even funny.

It has nothing to do with our meat consumption. It has to do with all of the other garbage processed foods, massive sugar consumption, massive fake foods (low fat/no fat/chemicals).

The science has proven that a diet high in healthy animal fats and proteins is one of the healthiest for heart health - yes, totally contrary to the popular myth that cholesterol is bad for you.

Also I know that there is biased or wrong information out there, from certain sources, but yet the truth should be visible anyway, if we’re really looking for it.

Yes, I agree, and it is - and if you take the time to watch - with an open mind - some of the videos I referenced, but more importantly, go look at the studies and research backing up what they are saying - you will be surprised to fine that...

And I think the vast majority of health studies are mostly in favor of vegetarianism...

this statement is woefully, totally wrong.

Thanks, I appreciate the conversation and I hope it’s understandable that I really don’t have general internet usage like I normally do, so I’m still not able to really pour over the topic like I normally would. It’s awful to even post here, in this thread, as I strongly dislike using my phone for internet like this.

So I’m still not able to surf around for the different aspects and details of the conversation.

However I do recognize that you do understand a great deal about diet which is correct, afaik, even though you basically have a different fundamental outlook about diet altogether.

...

Ok but just to only respond to ur last post:

You do have a point that Americans’ disgusting obesity could possibly be blamed on bad quality processed foods, instead of blaming our fatness and health problems on our actual large consumption of meat (compared to most populations in developed countries).

So yes you have a good point there.

However I think the burden of proof whether we need to eat meat, is actually on the side of proving that we actually do need it.

And I don’t believe that such proof exists, for humans, and many other animals.

So we should at least agree on that much, except maybe u have indicated proof that I still need to look into more in the future.

So I guess it’s probably as far as the conversation can go until I look more in depth into the books etc. that you’ve mentioned.

So I will do that in the future, and thanks for the conversation.

originally posted by: JamesChessman
You do have a point that Americans’ disgusting obesity could possibly be blamed on bad quality processed foods, instead of blaming our fatness and health problems on our actual large consumption of meat (compared to most populations in developed countries).

Actually, I was only addressing the diet aspect...

In reality, obesity isn't about what you eat, it is far more about when and how you eat.

In essence... it is snacking. Eating all the time. This results in persistent elevated insulin levels, which leads to weight gain and ultimately obesity and insulin resistance, which leads to more weight gain, in a never ending cycle.

Of course I'm not saying that what you eat isn't important - on the contrary, it is very important. But I'd also argue that what you don't eat is even more important than what you eat. If you can cut out the garbage processed foods (white sugar/flour and products made from them), that, and maintaining a decent fasting window every day will create a good foundation for health. After that, what you do choose to eat will determine how healthy you are in mind and body, irrespective of weight.

However I think the burden of proof whether we need to eat meat, is actually on the side of proving that we actually do need it.

We do. The science is there, and has been for a long time.

That said, while you can go full carnivore and still maintain excellent health - and yes, I'm saying the minimum daily requirement for carbs, fiber, etc is a whopping ... ZERO grams - yes, you can maintain decent heaoth while eating an assortment of fruits and veggies.

And I don’t believe that such proof exists, for humans, and many other animals.

Well, I guess you'll just have to continue believing that until you finally get your computer/internet issues fixed and take the time to peruse all of the evidence that is in the videos I've linked to.

So we should at least agree on that much, except maybe u have indicated proof that I still need to look into more in the future.

The proof is there. You haven't looked at it yet, apparently due to your internet/computer issues.

So I guess it’s probably as far as the conversation can go until I look more in depth into the books etc. that you’ve mentioned.

So I will do that in the future, and thanks for the conversation.

Back at ya, I hope you do find the time to give it a look with open eyes.

a reply to: tanstaafl

Well just a quick reply, that yes indeed I’m still limited with internet use. Because I absolutely dislike using my phone for internet like right now. I hate typing on the stupid touchscreen. It’s a modern iPhone btw but I just dislike using it for internet.

This thread exists out of my interest but it’s not even working for me to even read all the responses yet lol.

It’s simply just a world of difference of using my beautiful desktop, it’s basically opposite the enjoyment as actually a bad experience, when I’m using my phone, lol.

Anyways I will indeed look at all ur posts in detail in the future.

So if u posted the proof then I will give it the proper attention in the future.

But it will be a tall order to prove that humans actually NEED to eat meat, for our basic needs of nutrition and health!! (If we are both talking about this same idea, which I think we are.)

originally posted by: JamesChessman
a reply to: tanstaafl
It’s simply just a world of difference of using my beautiful desktop, it’s basically opposite the enjoyment as actually a bad experience, when I’m using my phone, lol.

So, real quick... what is the problem again? I'm an I.Y. guy and help people all the time (I do everything from linux mail servers to Windows Domain/Active Directory management, networks, routers/switches, and Desktops and end user help), would be happy to help if you need it...

So if u posted the proof then I will give it the proper attention in the future.

I posted links to the medical doctors who provide all of the proofs - links and references to all of the gold standard studies that back up everything I'm saying. Was just listening to Dr. Fungs video debunking the whole calorie restriction+excercise myth as a means to weight loss. I don't agree with him on everything, and while he got into the cholesterol myth (it is not something you should be worried about - ever), he said something that didn't sound right (statins show efficacy with regard to heart diseases, but not because of their cholesterol lowering effects) that I'm now researching.

But it will be a tall order to prove that humans actually NEED to eat meat, for our basic needs of nutrition and health!! (If we are both talking about this same idea, which I think we are.)

Not at all. Either the studies are there proving the amazing health benefits of eating high quality animal foods, or they aren't. Either people do better on it, or they don't. There are an endless supply of videos from former vegans/vegetarians detailing their journey, and how their health initially improved for years, then started downhill and they got so bad they had to try something else, and when they simply added some animal based foods to their diet, they immediately got better. 'Steak & Butter Gal' on youtube is one, she was vegan for many years, now she full blown carnivore and has been for years.

But, the good news is, we are all free to choose our own path (for now at least, the radical left would love to force everyone to eat 'green' though)...

a reply to: tanstaafl

Well if you’re asking genuinely:

My beautiful desktop iMac from late 2017... basically just has a problem with its internal hard drive.

I actually found the most clarity about this, yesterday, finally, at the Apple store itself, for my 2nd visit there (and tons of time sunk into Apple support on the phone).

And I know that it’s nothing complicated, overall, but I actually kept getting different advice and strategies from practically each person.


Anyways, quite simply: The hdd has a problem, possibly physical (or not), so basically there’s no normal usage possible, right now.
Disk I/O errors. The hdd won’t mount, it won’t really be read by my iMac or by other devices plugged into my iMac, etc.

ALSO crucial context is that I NEED the hdd content, so there are several suggestions for erasing everything and just a fresh reinstall of macOS, and it’s not an option here.

Anyway thankfully the guy last night clarified everything for me. I just need to physically remove the hdd and replace it, for a nice new reinstall of macOS, and the previous internal will become a nice external hdd, and that’s it lol.

Even if the new external hdd won’t work right, at that point, I’ll just extract its data (probably onto the new internal hdd), so I’ll keep my important stuff, and it will be all good.

And yeah there’s no reason that this should have been so drawn out, like I said, it’s basically that each person had different input, and it’s not the most common situation that I absolutely need my hdd content, so I couldn’t erase and reinstall, which would be the normal solution.

But it should all work out great.

originally posted by: JamesChessman
a reply to: tanstaafl
Anyway thankfully the guy last night clarified everything for me. I just need to physically remove the hdd and replace it, for a nice new reinstall of macOS, and the previous internal will become a nice external hdd, and that’s it lol.

Word of advice - don't get the new drive from Apple, get a nice pure SSD - Apple generally only wants to sell you the hybrid ones (part DDS, part mechanical)...

Hopefully the data is still retrievable from the old one, but I wouldn't rely on it for anything other than a source to restore your files.

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: JamesChessman
a reply to: tanstaafl
Anyway thankfully the guy last night clarified everything for me. I just need to physically remove the hdd and replace it, for a nice new reinstall of macOS, and the previous internal will become a nice external hdd, and that’s it lol.

Word of advice - don't get the new drive from Apple, get a nice pure SSD - Apple generally only wants to sell you the hybrid ones (part DDS, part mechanical)...

Hopefully the data is still retrievable from the old one, but I wouldn't rely on it for anything other than a source to restore your files.

Thank you! I know that SSD is all the rage lately, last few years. So I might go for that.

I really had no idea that such a desktop may basically out-use its hdd, till it has a problem like this... it’s literally been less than 4 years of use! But I did use it heavy, with a lot of video playback for example. I’d often just have nature videos looping on my Desktop indefinitely. I didn’t think I might be hastening the demise of the hdd.

However the actual source of the hdd’s problem might simply be that I regrettably abused the power button a few times too many, when the boot up process was becoming very slow, which I initially figured was just some recent malware loading up the Mac, and I hadn’t cleaned out the software recently with such cleaning programs, that I normally do occasionally.

So it’s basically what I think it’s really from. Malware plus I must have broken the boot up process itself, with my power button abuse, it seemed really clear that I did that lol.

a reply to: tanstaafl

Also I was glad for the clear direction of what to do last night so I finally tore off the glass screen... using a little plastic guitar pick... to cut through the sticky tape that holds the screen on!!

So that was very strange, and interesting.

It was surprisingly easy access to tear off the whole screen so maybe it’s the reason for the sticky tape.

But also I’m not sure if it’s a lame way to connect the screen altogether.

Like it seems cheap and lame to use sticky tape lol but I’m not sure what to think yet.

I do know that other models use MAGNETIC screen placement and it just seems so much more classy and clean etc.

originally posted by: JamesChessman
Thank you! I know that SSD is all the rage lately, last few years. So I might go for that.

There are many good reasons for this... no moving parts, much much more reliable, much much faster booting/loading the OS and programs, etc...

I really had no idea that such a desktop may basically out-use its hdd, till it has a problem like this... it’s literally been less than 4 years of use!

Electronic devices are like that. Some can last 15 years, others die right after the warranty runs out, and everything in between. It's basically a crap shoot. I generally buy business class machines because they tend to use better components and - especially for laptops - the design layout is much better (better airflow for keeping the components cooler).

However the actual source of the hdd’s problem might simply be that I regrettably abused the power button a few times too many, when the boot up process was becoming very slow,

A hard reset - especially during boot, and very especially during system software updates being applied - has a high chance of corrupting OS files, thus causing boot problems. The good news for you is, if that is the case here, your data should be fine.

Never, ever do a hard reset unless there is no other way (the system is totally locked up, and you've waited at least 15 or 20 minutes to see if it comes back to life.

No clue what you are talking about here...

If your intent is to just replace the hard drive, why would you destroy the screen? What model is/was this?

originally posted by: JamesChessman
a reply to: tanstaafl

Also I was glad for the clear direction of what to do last night so I finally tore off the glass screen... using a little plastic guitar pick... to cut through the sticky tape that holds the screen on!!

So that was very strange, and interesting.

It was surprisingly easy access to tear off the whole screen so maybe it’s the reason for the sticky tape.

But also I’m not sure if it’s a lame way to connect the screen altogether.

Like it seems cheap and lame to use sticky tape lol but I’m not sure what to think yet.

I do know that other models use MAGNETIC screen placement and it just seems so much more classy and clean etc.

a reply to: tanstaafl

Thank you,

Yes I regret that I abused the power button a bit there and it seems clear that I somehow broke the boot up process there, and probably caused the hdd problems altogether.

But also thanks for reassuring me that my data is probably fine, and I do expect that, but I appreciate you telling me that, too.

I’ll definitely not abuse the power button in the future, and it wasn’t a normal thing that I would do, either. But the boot up process had recently become so slow that it was borderline frozen, so that was the weird context that it happened, and obviously that type of situation shouldn’t be the context in the first place lol. So I’ll just take care of everything better in the future, and I’ll avoid the whole type of situation.

I was also trying to rush things to happen if possible, because I was going on vacation and I wanted to get things working right, before I left. So it was several wrong aspects of the situation that I’ll avoid in the future.

originally posted by: JamesChessman
a reply to: tanstaafl

Thank you,

Yes I regret that I abused the power button a bit there and it seems clear that I somehow broke the boot up process there, and probably caused the hdd problems altogether.

But also thanks for reassuring me that my data is probably fine, and I do expect that, but I appreciate you telling me that, too.

I’ll definitely not abuse the power button in the future, and it wasn’t a normal thing that I would do, either. But the boot up process had recently become so slow that it was borderline frozen, so that was the weird context that it happened, and obviously that type of situation shouldn’t be the context in the first place lol. So I’ll just take care of everything better in the future, and I’ll avoid the whole type of situation.

I was also trying to rush things to happen if possible, because I was going on vacation and I wanted to get things working right, before I left. So it was several wrong aspects of the situation that I’ll avoid in the future.

Also plus I had been in a bad mental state at the time with family members’ conflicts and stress, at the time. So in the most general way, my personal stress and craziness at that time, bled into my Mac’s well-being deteriorating too. Like how I wasn’t running the normal software-cleaning programs that I normally do, occasionally, as needed. I was neglecting Macayla’s well-being — my iMac’s name is Macayla — and plus loading her up with malware, I’m sure, because I was researching a famous beautiful model who has been missing for nearly 20 years, and some people think she was killed but I honestly think she is fine lol and just retired out of the public eye, by her own choice. And I think I was finding evidence of her being alive and well, because she seemed to be showing that she was involved in editing her online content, in recent times. So I’m glad that she seems fine but my research surely loaded up Macayla with malware from certain websites...

So it was absolutely a combination of bad factors but essentially the family stress and insanity was really the fundamental context that got me so crazy at that time, and unfortunately my own personal mania, ended up badly affecting Macayla too.

So the situation shows how our mental states really do affect everything we do in life, sometimes in very tangible ways like this...

a reply to: JamesChessman

I personally think fast food is ok once in a while. I suggest going to the grocery store buying fresh fruits and veggies. healthy proteins , good quality coffee etc. and have your meals at home. Junk food once a week; healthy food the rest of the week.

a reply to: tanstaafl

Well I’ve taken some time to reflect on the topic of vegetarianism and humans’ dietary needs of certain foods and certain nutrients.

And it’s basically an impossible question... when we’re trying to pinpoint exactly what specific things we really need to consume. As evidenced by all the different diets of different individuals and different cultures around the world.

So I think it’s the most honest and realistic to acknowledge that the world’s various populations are most suggestive that there’s NOT a specific diet that is really necessary for everyone in general. Especially considering that for every single food item, there are probably people who have lived mainly on each item. For example, people have lived exclusively on eating fish. Or only eating meat. Or only vegetarian food. Etc.

So I think it’s most true that there’s NOT a template for how people are supposed to eat, when we look at all the different diets in the world.

...


While I still need to go through the thread and look up the specific nutrients mentioned, I think the above description is my main framework of the topic, and from there, it’s very difficult to establish specific nutrients or foods as really needed for everyone, in general.

And I do believe in some universal basic needs of various nutrients, such as those listed on a bottle of multivitamins:

But even that doesn’t establish certain specific foods, as needed for everyone, even if we can pinpoint such a list of vitamins and nutrients that are universally needed.



...


Also I saw a general practitioner doctor recently and I thought of this thread, and he’s NOT a nutritionist, but since I was there, I asked if he thought that everyone needs to eat certain foods like meat? He said no, but that vegetarians do have more difficulty in finding certain specific nutrients like B12, and it’s the only one nutrient that he thinks is like that.

So his input is more aligned with my years of general learning about diet. That is, the arguments FOR eating meat as necessary, usually boil down to one (or more) pinpointed nutrients... which still do not prove a need of meat, because... there’s always simply the choice of buying vitamins, to cover it. In this case of my dr.’s input, there’s nothing exotic or difficult in just buying multivitamins with B12, or even just buying straight B12 itself.

TBC later...