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The Bible case on abortion

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posted on Apr, 16 2021 @ 05:05 PM
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THE BIBLE CASE ON ABORTION

“Then God said ‘Let us make man in our image, after our likeness’.”
I’ve always thought that “in our image” meant having a similar kind of consciousness, having a conscious will.

“And let them have dominion… over all the earth” (Genesis ch1 v26)
This is the reason why the “likeness” of God has been given to men. It fits them for the task of being God’s deputies in the governing of the world.

“And God blessed them, and God said to them ‘Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion…” (v28).
That is, he blessed them by telling them to be fruitful and multiply.
God’s blessing is always about the generation of life. When it seems to refer to wealth, that is only because wealth is being measured in living things, like flocks and crops.

As this verse makes clear, multiplying and filling the earth is a necessary condition for dominion over the earth as God’s deputy in the world. That is why it follows on from the original intention.

“Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and cleaves to his wife, and they become one flesh” (Genesis ch2 v24).
Obviously there cannot be children unless man and woman come together, and men cannot fill the earth without having children, and they cannot have dominion over the earth without filling it. That is why marriage is part of God’s plan.

“Lo, sons are a heritage from the Lord… Happy [i.e. “blessed”] is the man who has his quiver full of them” (Psalm 127 v5).
Confirming two lessons;
a ) Children come from God, are a gift from God
b ) Men receive this gift as a blessing.

“When men strive together and hurt a woman with child, so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no harm [to the woman] follows, the one who hurt her shall be fined, according as the woman’s husband shall lay upon him, and he shall pay as the judges determine” (Exodus ch21 v22).
Inasmuch as children are a blessing, the loss of a child, even in the womb, is an injury.

“[Why does not the Lord accept our offerings?] Because the Lord was witness to the covenant between you and the wife of your youth, to whom you have been faithless, though she is your companion and your wife by covenant. Has not the one God made and sustained for us the spirit of life? And what does he desire? Godly offspring” (Malachi ch2 vv14-15).
Underlining the point that the purpose of marriage is to give children to God.

To be exact, “godly children”. Almost any act of sexual union between men and women may create children of some kind, but their chances of becoming “godly” are best in the context of a stable marriage. That is the root of Malachi’s objection to divorce.

Over the Old Testament as a whole, God objects to many kinds of sexual behaviour- adultery, divorce, incest, fornication, prostitution, bestiality, lying with another man as with a woman. The common factor, I think you will find, is that all of them get in the way of having godly children. Some of them get in the way of having children at all. And “godly offspring” is what God wants from human life on earth. He gave us the spirit of life for that purpose.

“And you took your sons and daughters whom you had borne to me, and these you sacrificed to [the idols] to be devoured. Were your harlotries so small a matter that you slaughtered my children and delivered them up as a sacrifice by fire to them?” (Ezekiel ch16 vv30-31)
Inasmuch as children come from God in the first place, they remain his children. Therefore the very worst kind of idolatry is the idolatry that lives on the slaughter of children. It makes God very angry.

There is enough evidence here to give a sense of his probable reaction to abortion as a social phenomenon.

And why did the laws have nothing more specific? For exactly the same reason that the Pentateuch contains no legislation about driving articulated lorries at high speed in a residential area. In both cases, nobody was doing it at the time, so the subject did not come up.



posted on Apr, 16 2021 @ 05:44 PM
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To be exact, “godly children”.


Right. God had no problem killing unborn children in his great flood. God had no problems killing the unborn of the ungodly tribes that didn't acquiesce to his people's invasions, or burning a pregnant adulteress or whore alive, or stoning a fornicating couple, regardless of any concern that the woman may have been with child, or forcing a woman to marry her rapist, for that matter. If a husband had a hunch his wife's pregnancy wasn't his progeny, there was an abortive remedy for that too.



And why did the laws have nothing more specific? For exactly the same reason that the Pentateuch contains no legislation about driving articulated lorries at high speed in a residential area. In both cases, nobody was doing it at the time, so the subject did not come up.


Nonsense. Abortion is as old time. Women have been using herbs and metal wires to abort before and during the biblical days.



posted on Apr, 16 2021 @ 05:50 PM
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a reply to: Sookiechacha

You believe in God?



posted on Apr, 16 2021 @ 06:14 PM
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a reply to: Lysergic

Probably only as much as the idea offends.



posted on Apr, 16 2021 @ 06:18 PM
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originally posted by: Sookiechacha
God had no problem killing unborn children in his great flood. God had no problems killing the unborn of the ungodly tribes that didn't acquiesce to his people's invasions

The children in these suppositions are potential, not-yet-conceived, which is not the same thing. And the quotation specifies "godly" children.

or burning a pregnant adulteress or whore alive

Not a penalty I remember from the Old Testament laws.

If a husband had a hunch his wife's pregnancy wasn't his progeny, there was an abortive remedy for that too.

I take it that you are referring to a popular modern interpretation of the "bitter water" ritual. In fact there is no reason in the text that the drink should work like that.Read the chapter (Numbers ch5)- the additive is just dust from the ground under the tabernacle, not the "poisonous herbs" that the proponents of this theory like to throw in. I'm not convinced that the ritual had that function. The assumption in the text is that there is a sporting chance that the woman will pass the test, in which case the accusing husband will "bear the iniquity" instead.


Abortion is as old time. Women have been using herbs and metal wires to abort before and during the biblical days.

Read through the Old Testament with the eyes of a social historian. It's evident that couples in that society did not want to be childless. Having children was an economic advantage, if only because they could support you in your old age. As the Psalm I quoted points out, a man without sons will be at a disadvantage, because he can be bullied at township meetings ("in the gate") by the neighbour who has his own home-grown army of sons. Partly for these reasons, couples felt aggrieved and ashamed if they were unable to have children. There was a loss of prestige. Therefore it is unlikely that deliberate termination of pregnancy would be a common action. There are laws about accidental occurrences resulting from fights.because fights are common events.



edit on 16-4-2021 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 16 2021 @ 06:22 PM
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It seems like there was a New Testament story that touched on the subject. It may have been Paul or Timothy that was warning Christians to stay away from a temple on a hill in the city. I think it was a temple to the goddess Diana. There were Priestesses in the temple, not Priests. The Priestess would accept your offering to Diana, then she would have sex with you.

There were large clay jars lining the wall that contained the dead fetuses from the pregnancies from those encounters.

I may have a couple stories mixed together, but I do remember reading about dead babies in jars. It was an abomination to God. It always is, regardless of what I think.



posted on Apr, 16 2021 @ 06:24 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

This might be a point to reference Abraham, Sarah and Hagar. Sarah was so desperate for Abraham to have a son that despite promises from the Lord that they would have a son, she lost faith as she grew older and convinced her servant Hagar to be Abraham's concubine and give him a son. That's where Ishmael came from, and possibly the lineage of Muhammad and Islam. It turns into a classic cautionary tale against illegitimate children.



posted on Apr, 16 2021 @ 06:25 PM
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originally posted by: Sookiechacha


To be exact, “godly children”.


Right. God had no problem killing unborn children in his great flood. God had no problems killing the unborn of the ungodly tribes that didn't acquiesce to his people's invasions, or burning a pregnant adulteress or whore alive, or stoning a fornicating couple, regardless of any concern that the woman may have been with child, or forcing a woman to marry her rapist, for that matter. If a husband had a hunch his wife's pregnancy wasn't his progeny, there was an abortive remedy for that too.



And why did the laws have nothing more specific? For exactly the same reason that the Pentateuch contains no legislation about driving articulated lorries at high speed in a residential area. In both cases, nobody was doing it at the time, so the subject did not come up.


Nonsense. Abortion is as old time. Women have been using herbs and metal wires to abort before and during the biblical days.


Very poor examples, take the cult of Baal for example they were cut off by Israel and driven from the promised land that God had given to Jacob/Israel, they used to heat a furnace in this huge bronze statue and burn baby's in it's arm's, this was there God Baal that they worshipped.

Seriously be careful who you pick a fight with the Lord is not going to be amused.

www.holyblasphemy.net...

God is YOUR maker, do not try to pick the beam in God's eye for there is none but WE mere mortals have a whole forest of plank's in ours.

If you think Killing children is somehow justifiable then you are simply wrong but it is not too late to change your mind.

Yeshua is the way, you are hating the old testament God and he is GOOD not evil as you seem to think, remember his punishment was upon a very evil world and do you or I know, are we in God's place, Do we see what He see's, do we know what he Knows.

Sometimes a bush must be pruned and that can actually make it bloom all the more when it grows.

I am of a different denomination to Disraeli and on many point's disagree with some of his other posts but not to the extent that I would call him wrong simply that our interpretations vary.

That said this post is very interesting.

You seek to justify abortion, look at what it did to this woman when she was shown a vision during a near death experience, many others have had better visions such as one woman seeing many baby's in heaven with Jesus looking very sadly at them.


You want to continue to justify the ongoing genocide of our race while our young are diminishing in numbers and our old are left with no descendants to make up the world as our population ages and we leave no legacy behind.

Wake up woman and stop with the vile evil.

There are at least FIFTY FIVE MILLION CHILDREN murdered every year in abortions and that is only an estimate and probably a conservative one at that.

Try justifying that by blaming God, imagine how the death of each child whom he loves, how his love for those that murder his children is turned to pain and eventually to anger and even hatred.

You hate God and justify killing Children in your argument, how do you think God feel's.



posted on Apr, 16 2021 @ 06:29 PM
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a reply to: Sookiechacha

One thing to remember is that "God" per se is as far above humans as we are above worms. You are asking the questions of Job 38 to 42. But the thing to remember here is the 10 commandments. Thou shall not kill/murder. Are you not murdering the unborn when they are aborted?

Christianity can forgive much if you are a good Christian. But you really can't get around it. Abortion is murder. It should be applied sparingly if ever.

Something else to add. They are all dead in heaven/hell. Death to "God" is not the same thing as death to a human.



posted on Apr, 16 2021 @ 06:29 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko
Indeed, and the story of Rachel's rivalry with Leah, and the story of Samuel's mother. Wanting not to be childless was the norm.




edit on 16-4-2021 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 16 2021 @ 06:31 PM
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a reply to: Sookiechacha

I’m gonna need you to quote book, chapter, and verse where God mentions burning a pregnant adulteress or prostitute alive.

In fact, I’m gonna need you to quote book, chapter, and verse where God advocates (or even mentions)
burning ANYONE alive.

Also need you to cite book, chapter and verse where God forces or prescribes forcing a woman to marry her rapist.

I’ll wait...



posted on Apr, 16 2021 @ 06:33 PM
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a reply to: visitedbythem
An interesting story, thank you, but not, I think, New Testament.



posted on Apr, 16 2021 @ 06:39 PM
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originally posted by: KansasGirl
Also need you to cite book, chapter and verse where God forces or prescribes forcing a woman to marry her rapist. .

I can tell you now that the poster is again following a popular modern misinterpretation.
There is a law in Deuteronomy (ch22 vv28-29) which obliges a rapist to marry his victim, because he has destoyed her chances of marrying somebody else, which means he has destroyed her life and her chances of economic survival. Supporting her for life is the only recompense he can make.
BUT the woman has the option of refusing him and taking the money instead (Exodus ch22 vv16-17). Her own choice is not forced at all. It's all there in the text, which these people do not read.


edit on 16-4-2021 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 16 2021 @ 07:10 PM
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a reply to: Sookiechacha


Right. God had no problem killing unborn children in his great flood. God had no problems killing the unborn of the ungodly tribes that didn't acquiesce to his people's invasions, or burning a pregnant adulteress or whore alive, or stoning a fornicating couple, regardless of any concern that the woman may have been with child, or forcing a woman to marry her rapist, for that matter. If a husband had a hunch his wife's pregnancy wasn't his progeny, there was an abortive remedy for that too.

Regarding forcing a woman to marry her rapist, you have confused Mesopotamian law and Hebrew law. Regarding burning a pregnant prostitute, you might want to read the actual text in Genesis 38. Your statement is out of context.




posted on Apr, 16 2021 @ 07:30 PM
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a reply to: Sookiechacha

Yes Sookiechacha, you have rightly pointed out that the moriality of the moses god has been surpassed by todays morailty. If god had higher morality he woud just commanded that any woman raped was to be seen as a virgin in the spirituality of god. Any man that looked upon that woman as anything less would be turning their back on god. Instead he condemned females to being raped by anyone that wanted to marry them.

Many of faith see scripture as being inspired by God. So try explain away all of gods inadequacies to maintain that delussion. If you look at Moses introduction to god it was through a burning bush. Moses was using shamanism to communicate with spirits. Many of which will masquarade as anything to empower themselves from the power of the human mind.

Personally I see the Creator as being absolutely silent in words. Only seeing the Creator as expressing through the purist of love. When that love is translated into words it is poluted with minds that may or may not have any more morility than yours or mine.



posted on Apr, 16 2021 @ 07:37 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI




The children in these suppositions are potential, not-yet-conceived, which is not the same thing. And the quotation specifies "godly" children.


No, they're not. And yes, God had no problem killing the unborn of the "ungodly". The biblical God, in the story of the great flood, killed real people, not potential, yet to be conceived people. the story of Sodom and Gomorrah was about real people.




Not a penalty I remember from the Old Testament laws.



Also the daughter of any priest, if she profanes herself by harlotry, she profanes her father; she shall be burned with fire.
Leviticus 21:9



Now it was about three months later that Judah was informed, “Your daughter-in-law Tamar has played the harlot, and behold, she is also with child by harlotry.” Then Judah said, “Bring her out and let her be burned!”
Genesis 38:24




I take it that you are referring to a popular modern interpretation of the "bitter water" ritual. In fact there is no reason in the text that the drink should work like that.Read the chapter (Numbers ch5)- the additive is just dust from the ground under the tabernacle, not the "poisonous herbs" that the proponents of this theory like to throw in.


Right. The old "magic water" excuse!

First of all, the mediaeval Catholic Church was never going to allow the Bible to give the recipe for an abortion. And, the herb that was used at the time, has long since been extinct. www.ancient-origins.net...

Secondly,

When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse.
Number 5:27


This is an abortion, whether God gives it because of the "ungodly child", or the water contains abortifaciens, this is biblically sanctioned abortion.

If she doesn't drink the water...no abortion, right? The woman has to be forced to drink the "water".



Read through the Old Testament with the eyes of a social historian. It's evident that couples in that society did not want to be childless. Having children was an economic advantage, if only because they could support you in your old age.


Not always. Not during times of famine, plague or war. Not for unhealthy women who would probably not survive child birth. And certainly not for women who did ungodly things to get pregnant.


edit on 16-4-2021 by Sookiechacha because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 16 2021 @ 07:42 PM
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a reply to: LABTECH767




God is YOUR maker, do not try to pick the beam in God's eye for there is none but WE mere mortals have a whole forest of plank's in ours.


Don't try to remake the biblical God into something the book never presented him to be. The God of the Old Testament was NOT pro-life, by any stretch of the imagination.
edit on 16-4-2021 by Sookiechacha because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 16 2021 @ 07:45 PM
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originally posted by: KansasGirl
a reply to: Sookiechacha
Also need you to cite book, chapter and verse where God forces or prescribes forcing a woman to marry her rapist.

I’ll wait...


Deuteronomy 22:28-29



posted on Apr, 16 2021 @ 07:51 PM
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a reply to: KansasGirl




Also need you to cite book, chapter and verse where God forces or prescribes forcing a woman to marry her rapist.

I’ll wait...



Deuteronomy 22:28-29 28
If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.


Here's some, just for extra credit.


17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
Numbers 31



posted on Apr, 16 2021 @ 08:35 PM
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How little can one value life to not even consider the unborn as living...

This is a sad day indeed.




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