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Jesus is the most popular communist ever. Why are so many blind to this?

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posted on Mar, 21 2005 @ 03:47 PM
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He is one of the most popular names if not the most in all of history, yet his ideals are so rejected by many especially those who worship him, how come?

All the scriptures about Jesus are clear about 1 thing, he promotes communist ideals. This fact does not sit well with many evangelicals, when I have brough this up to some church members they have rejected this notion harshly even though the Gospels spell it out. Read the Gospel for yourselves and see that Christ's vision is a perfect communist society.

Why is this such a difficult idea for so many to accept? Most folks agree that money is the root of all evil but a cashless society where everyone bpitches in is even worst why is that?

Because communism is looked at so negativly by Americans since WWII and it is tough to impossible to change so many individual's perspective on the issue especially while they are fed and sheltered so well in today's society, that this view of Jesus is taboo to the masses.




posted on Mar, 21 2005 @ 03:56 PM
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Jesus a commie hey! That's an interesting notion.

We know that the organistions that funded captialism funded communism in the early 1900's to create a divde between people. It worked.

I wonder if the Romans did the same thing 2000 years ago. Interesting to look into. But which gospels should a person read. The King James version of the Bible isn't entirely accurate now is it? One would need Jesus's own writings if they were to exist to find out what he really was saying and what he truly believed.

I have my own opinion on Jesus and his fasting of 40 days in the desert but am not sure if I'm allowed to write it.



posted on Mar, 21 2005 @ 04:05 PM
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I guess the New International Version, but any old copy will do. I would love to hear your opinion about his fasting and wandering in the desert for 40 days, please post it, if you really think its unappropriate U2U your opinion to me whenever.



posted on Mar, 21 2005 @ 04:09 PM
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jrod which verses because i dont see any verses that are communist.



posted on Mar, 21 2005 @ 04:17 PM
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Its not so much specific verses but the looking at how Jesus lived and what how he told other people to live. I gotta go to work soon so I dont have time to post some scripture but I will when I have the time.



posted on Mar, 21 2005 @ 05:21 PM
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Jesus' symbol is a cross not a star.



posted on Mar, 21 2005 @ 06:20 PM
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Originally posted by Croat56
Jesus' symbol is a cross not a star.


A cross or a star or a bunny rabbit, the symbol doesn't bear any real relation to the thing it represents. Stars shapes, in and of themselves, have nothing do with Communism.

Even if Jesus promoted ideas that sound compassionate and leftist, I'm pretty sure we can't call him a full blown communist; that idea didn't exist as such in his time, nor did capitalism (at least not as these ideas exist today).

I must admit; Jesus does not seem like a typical capitalist.



posted on Mar, 21 2005 @ 06:49 PM
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Jesus wasn't a communist. A communist believes its moral to for people to give "charity" (or be arrested by the state), not giving what they have. Jesus wasn't Robin Hood here...

Jesus never taught the redistribution of wealth. He taught people they should be generous, and do what they can to help each other.

Capitalism is a system where people are able to choose to give to charity instead of being forced by a government.



posted on Mar, 21 2005 @ 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer

Jesus never taught the redistribution of wealth. He taught people they should be generous, and do what they can to help each other.

Capitalism is a system where people are able to choose to give to charity instead of being forced by a government.


The Christian cult thrived for two reasons above all the others. One, they took money from those wealthy citizens who converted, and donated it to the poor and to spread the word. It drove the Jewish Elders mad, because they couldn't figure out where he was getting all his money from for the longest time. Finally they figured out he was taking it from those who joined him and redistributing it to the people to help ease their poverty and win converts.

It was not by choice, you either gave up everything you had or you didn't get to join the club, Jesus had no sympathy for the rich. Remember his outburst at the potential convert who wanted to retain his villa because it was given to him by his wife's parents, wealthy land owners in their own right, and she couldn't bear to be without the comfort of it? Jesus got mad, and he doesn't do that often, and tossed the guy out from their inner circle. Two, he promised peace in the afterlife to those who had never known it in life.

Remember that line about "it's easier to pass a camel through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to go to heaven." I paraphrased a bit, I'm in the living room and I keep the nursery rhymes by the bed for light evening reading.


Jesus was most definitely a communist, I mean, he had a beard didn't he?



posted on Mar, 21 2005 @ 07:20 PM
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The Christian cult thrived for two reasons above all the others. One, they took money from those wealthy citizens who converted, and donated it to the poor and to spread the word. It drove the Jewish Elders mad, because they couldn't figure out where he was getting all his money from for the longest time. Finally they figured out he was taking it from those who joined him and redistributing it to the people to help ease their poverty and win converts.


You mean he encouraged people who WILLINGLY joined his "cult" (interesting word you used) to give to those who weren't so fortunate.

You'd have to be crazy to think Jesus would have supported the idea of using violence to force people to give up their wealth for others.

Jesus would have supported a capiitalist system if anything, simply because it gave people the right to choose what they wanted to do. I can't see Jesus believing charity a person is forced to give means anything.



posted on Mar, 21 2005 @ 07:30 PM
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www.usbible.com...

seriously disturbing. scroll down to, "the dak side of jesus", and have a read



posted on Mar, 21 2005 @ 07:31 PM
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``

i think your right jrod

the early Christians were at least proto-communist
the earlier Essenes were that way too.

i believe our definition of 'communism'
has been twisted around with 'socialism'
they are two different things...
but generally accepted as the same-thing now-a-days



posted on Mar, 21 2005 @ 07:39 PM
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Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer
You mean he encouraged people who WILLINGLY joined his "cult" (interesting word you used) to give to those who weren't so fortunate.

You'd have to be crazy to think Jesus would have supported the idea of using violence to force people to give up their wealth for others.

Jesus would have supported a capiitalist system if anything, simply because it gave people the right to choose what they wanted to do. I can't see Jesus believing charity a person is forced to give means anything.


The document(s) that outline communism are much more utopian than the actual product, just like Christianity. Marx and Jesus were both idealists who didn't really account for the greed and vulnerability of man.

Christianity was a cult, it was defined that way for a good long time by the church/religious authorities of the time. If Jesus had been born in the 20th century, the ATF would have had to shoot fire into his compound to 'rescue the children.'

And not, I don't mean encouraged, if I had meant encouraged I would have said encouraged, I mean compelled, forced, coerced upon pain of eternal damnation.

I can't believe you said Jesus would have been pro-capitalism..did you read the bible? Remember that little bit about the money changers?

The message behind Judas' betrayal?

Both Communism and Socialism are great systems on paper, but they failed to compensate for man's innate greed. Christianity is the same, one needs only look at the example of the Templars, the modern example of the Christian Militias in Africa and Asia. Ideas are rarely translated perfectly into operating models.



[edit on 21-3-2005 by WyrdeOne]

[edit on 21-3-2005 by WyrdeOne]



posted on Mar, 21 2005 @ 07:46 PM
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And not, I don't mean encouraged, if I had meant encouraged I would have said encouraged, I mean compelled, forced, coerced upon pain of eternal damnation.


None of those people had to join him. They were free to do what they want. What you're talking would break a fundamental rule of god called Free Will. Jesus taught people how to live. He never forced people to live any way.


I can't believe you said Jesus would have been pro-capitalism..did you read the bible? Remember that little bit about the money changers?


I said Jesus would have chosen capitalism over communism, because capitalism gives people freedom. A system like communism corrupts the ideals of charity. It is complete moral hypocracy to force people to give charity.

Jesus would have wanted people to make the choice to give on their own.



posted on Mar, 21 2005 @ 07:48 PM
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Disturbed Deliverer said, "Jesus never taught the redistribution of wealth. He taught people they should be generous, and do what they can to help each other."

If people are truly being generous and doing what they can do help people, why would they be opposed to the redistribution of wealth. Isn't that just a anti-Christian word for charity?

In fact, the parable of the widow and the coins, where a poor woman is said to be giving more than a rich man--even though its only a small amount--because its all she has. This idea of wealth and giving in portion to what we have is Christ's teaching according to the Bible. Certainly seems to be more in the spirit of socialism than corporatism or Republicanism.

I never heard about Jesus shruggin' saying "Heck Mack, you know its a dog eat dog world." For Him, the human race was a big family.

St. Udio, I'm guessing you're living in the US. Socialism and communism are not the same thing. Socialism (at least here in France) allows for capitalism to continue, but integrates an agressive tax plan on the rich and lots of social programs: welfare, public trans., healthcare, almost free university, etc.



posted on Mar, 21 2005 @ 07:52 PM
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Disturbed
You're right, they had a choice. The ignorant, illiterate peasants were told, give me all your money and do what I say, or don't, and burn forever in eternal hellfire. Hmmmm...

Sounds a bit like a stick-up to me.

Of course I know JC was all about the turn the other cheek, and the do unto others, and the foot washing and what not..but that's just a distilation of the message - OBEY your betters. Did you know the original words had to do with how to react to being victimized by a Jew? He said, if a Jew steals money from you, forgive him, if a Jew spits on you, love him, if a Jew rapes your wife, forgive him, and if a Jew slaps your face turn the other cheek.

It was a setup. A sheeple generator.

Do this or go to hell is not free will. Forgivness from sin only upon submission to a man who supposedly represented the will of God is not a faith, it's a cult. A cult of personality and fear.

While I agree the NT is generally more kittens and flowers and rainbows than the OT, it was less entertaining by far, less realistic and practical in its advice, and less applicable for men than for animals. Hence..the flock.

[edit on 21-3-2005 by WyrdeOne]



posted on Mar, 21 2005 @ 07:55 PM
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If people are truly being generous and doing what they can do help people, why would they be opposed to the redistribution of wealth. Isn't that just a anti-Christian word for charity?


The idea of wealth redistribution means people are violently forced to give up what they have. It is not charity because people are made to give, and probably to something they don't even believe in.

It is only real, pure charity when a person does it out of their own free will.


In fact, the parable of the widow and the coins, where a poor woman is said to be giving more than a rich man--even though its only a small amount--because its all she has. This idea of wealth and giving in portion to what we have is Christ's teaching according to the Bible. Certainly seems to be more in the spirit of socialism than corporatism or Republicanism.


Capitalism isn't a system about screwing the poor. It's about letting people choose for themselves where they spend their money. It's about letting people control their own fate.

In a capitalism society, anyone is free to give to charity. It is encouraged, It just isn't forced. That is moral hypocracy.


I never heard about Jesus shruggin' saying "Heck Mack, you know its a dog eat dog world." For Him, the human race was a big family.


This isn't the spirit of capitalism. Capitalism comes from the same virtues as communism, it just goes about achieving them in a different and more realistic manner. Everyone can not be super rich. A society can not have wealth distributed truly equally, while surviving and progressing.


St. Udio, I'm guessing you're living in the US. Socialism and communism are not the same thing. Socialism (at least here in France) allows for capitalism to continue, but integrates an agressive tax plan on the rich and lots of social programs: welfare, public trans., healthcare, almost free university, etc.


Except you are restricting a free market when you redistribute wealth. The idea of a free market is to have no, or at least as little government interference as possible. The government deciding where money should go, it stops being a true free market, because the people who earned the money aren't choosing where it goes.



posted on Mar, 21 2005 @ 08:03 PM
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You're right, they had a choice. The ignorant, illiterate peasants were told, give me all your money and do what I say, or don't, and burn forever in eternal hellfire. Hmmmm...


I just think you are a secularist. If Jesus believed there was a hell, shouldn't his job be to help people not to go there? Should he have not told them the consequences of their actions?

You have to view this as a Christian, and not as a secularist. You are not doing that.


Do this or go to hell is not free will. Forgivness from sin only upon submission to a man who supposedly represented the will of God is not a faith, it's a cult. A cult of personality and fear.


If Jesus was simply some guy trying to scare people into listening to him, he would have used force, and not just rhetoric. His goal was to teach an ideal.

I'd argue that to Jesus, hell and heaven were not a physical place, but a mental state. There is a story left out of the bible where Jesus is asked how it could be fair to send sinners to hell to burn for eternity for mistakes made in just a lifetime. He states that there really isn't a hell. To Jesus, the idea was to teach people how to make themselves happier. It was teaching people what true happiness was.



posted on Mar, 21 2005 @ 08:03 PM
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Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer
A society can not have wealth distributed truly equally, while surviving and progressing.


Why do you think that? I'm curious to know your reasoning. In my opinion, it's possible to maintain a much larger percentage of the population at comfortable levels while allowing entrepeneurs and hard workers to advance and earn money to buy luxuries.

I know communism and socialism don't really work, believe me. But a meritocracy would.

Sort of like a capitalist socialism; everybody's bare necessities are provided for, and those with ambition and skill/education are encouraged to invent and create for money, so that they can have those luxuries that are not necessary, but useful, or time saving, or pleasant.



posted on Mar, 21 2005 @ 08:06 PM
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Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer

You have to view this as a Christian, and not as a secularist. You are not doing that.


Why do I have to do that? Believing something doesn't give you the right to mislead people into believing you have control over their immortal soul. It's a simple case of extortion.









 
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