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Smart Guy question! - Electrical related (3 phase)...(let's see how good you are!)

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posted on Mar, 10 2021 @ 02:49 PM
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originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: butcherguy

Don't you mean 240 single phase (split phase) (not 208)? Typically, residential power is delivered to a residence as 240 (split) single phase. Meaning two hot legs of 120 VAC at 180 degrees out of phase with each other.

With 3 phase (let's say 208), each phase is rotated 120 degrees from the previous phase. Consequently, if you multiply 120 volts times the sq. root of 3 you get 208 volts, hence the phasing angle of each phase with respect to the others. Same for 480/277. So, if you have a 120 3 phase panel, each of the hot legs are 120 volts. To get a 120 volt circuit you tie one of the hot legs into the circuit via single pole circuit breaker in the panel. To get a 208 volt circuit you use a 2 pole breaker which attaches across two of the hot rails in the panel.

In a residential 240 volt system, both of the 120 phases are 180 degrees out from each other (hence the "split phase" terminology used in some areas). In this arrangement, a 2 pole breaker across both hot rails results in 240 volts which is typically used for ovens, heaters and dryers, etc. I honestly don't think I've ever encountered 208 volt split phase system.


No, I mean 208 volt single phase. We don't do any residential work. All commercial and industrial. Most all oth the plants that we work at have 3 phase power supplies.
We run into problems where we order a piece of equipment that is 240 volt single phase and when our guys find that the supply voltage is 208. Then we have to change motors and sometimes control transformers out because the motors will overheat because of the low voltage and the electronic controls will not operate correctly when the voltage drops below the specified low threshold.
I know that 480 volt three phase is typical for most of our industrial customers, but many places we work have 440 or 460 volts.
Sometimes we see voltages on a '220' system as low as 200 volts. As I stated at the beginning, I am not an electrician, but I do know that older electrical systems here on the East Coast are not always typical.
I won't go into the issues that I have seen with older delta/wye transformers with high legs.
Link to Amazon shows a single phase Dayton motor that is rated for 208. They make them because there are 208 volt single phase supplies out there.

edit on b000000312021-03-10T15:08:59-06:0003America/ChicagoWed, 10 Mar 2021 15:08:59 -0600300000021 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 11 2021 @ 01:55 AM
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originally posted by: Thenail
a reply to: randomtangentsrme

Wow you are an idiot. A first year apprentice electrician is way smarter than you . I’ve explained this 8 times and you’re not any closer to grasping it. I explained three phase but you don’t get it.
You have no working knowledge of electricity in any form.
Ill correct you one more time then after that I’ll assume you’re trolling because no one is this stupid. First year apprentices are smarter after two weeks of class

1- you can’t just tie the neutral to the ground , that’s the most idiotic thing I’ve ever heard , you bond it at the first point of disconnect .
2- you don’t need a neutral for 208, I just wired a 208 volt hand dryer in a bathroom . No neutral needed .
3- do you know what a generator does lol , it fires up when you lose power and runs your critical loads and turns back off after power is restored .

Why do my 3 phase rtus not need a neutral mostly anything 3 phase doesn’t need a neutral .
If you have a 120/208 panel than it’s obviously 3 phase . It’s pretty easy to tell because it has 3 hots. Black red blue . A 2 pole breaker is 2 hots 208 volts . Does hand dryer and heaters and stuff .it’s still 3 phase power but you’re using two legs only . If a piece of equipment is 3 phase then it probably takes 3 hots and a ground . Maybe a neutral but doubtful. Go watch some you tube videos or something


I do not need to insult you to prove my point.

You always need a neutral to complete a circuit.
I'm open to learning more as an electrician.

With a generator, you absolutely can. Due to running multiple systems off of a generator, it's been advised by multiple providers.

I understand you are trying to be helpful, but you are not. Perhaps more so than I am not.

I'm not going to be off this thread, because we all can help each other as a community.
Or we can insult without correction.

You do you, and I hope you open up your own thread on electrical theory, or why I am wrong.



posted on Mar, 11 2021 @ 01:55 AM
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a reply to: butcherguy

Hmmph, that's interesting!

Learned something today.



posted on Mar, 11 2021 @ 05:22 PM
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a reply to: randomtangentsrme

This isn’t my thread lol . You insulted me. You have no knowledge of electricity. You insulted me and you have way less knowledge than a first year apprentice, which is a guy who just became an electrician that year . You don’t need a neutral to complete a circuit. You need a neutral to complete a 120 volt or 277 volt circuit . I just wired 3 ceiling mounted electric heaters , they each took 208 . I ran 3 wires out of the 3 phase panel to do it . Two 120 volt wires and a green grounding wire to get 208 volts . I used a two pole breaker to feed it . Nowhere is there a neutral . I just wired 10 roof top units off 480 . I didn’t need a neutral for any of them . That kind of blows your theory out of the water . Don’t you think ? Every house in America built between the 40s and 1990s had the dryer on two hots and a grounding wire . So their dryer would never complete a circuit ? Your stuff makes no sense and it basically doesn’t work . Like your theories . What in gods name is it about generators with you ? I think you don’t know anything about them . You just brought it up again but have no point whatsoever

If it has 2 hots and no neutral the hots probably draw the same because a neutral is just for an inbalanced load . You could probably buy a couple electrical books read them for a few years or maybe get an electrician job for 5 years and become a journeyman and then maybe you’ll make sense . I’m not trying to be a dick , I think it’s absolutely hilarious . It’s like me who has no knowledge of plumbing whatsoever, if I would start arguing with a master plumber about the mod5 basic plumbing crap he would of told me off 3 days ago . But here I am still trying to help you understand but I know now you either can’t or won’t .
edit on 11-3-2021 by Thenail because: Correction



posted on Mar, 12 2021 @ 01:41 AM
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originally posted by: Thenail
a reply to: randomtangentsrme

This isn’t my thread lol . You insulted me. You have no knowledge of electricity. You insulted me and you have way less knowledge than a first year apprentice, which is a guy who just became an electrician that year . You don’t need a neutral to complete a circuit. You need a neutral to complete a 120 volt or 277 volt circuit . I just wired 3 ceiling mounted electric heaters , they each took 208 . I ran 3 wires out of the 3 phase panel to do it . Two 120 volt wires and a green grounding wire to get 208 volts . I used a two pole breaker to feed it . Nowhere is there a neutral . I just wired 10 roof top units off 480 . I didn’t need a neutral for any of them . That kind of blows your theory out of the water . Don’t you think ? Every house in America built between the 40s and 1990s had the dryer on two hots and a grounding wire . So their dryer would never complete a circuit ? Your stuff makes no sense and it basically doesn’t work . Like your theories . What in gods name is it about generators with you ? I think you don’t know anything about them . You just brought it up again but have no point whatsoever

If it has 2 hots and no neutral the hots probably draw the same because a neutral is just for an inbalanced load . You could probably buy a couple electrical books read them for a few years or maybe get an electrician job for 5 years and become a journeyman and then maybe you’ll make sense . I’m not trying to be a dick , I think it’s absolutely hilarious . It’s like me who has no knowledge of plumbing whatsoever, if I would start arguing with a master plumber about the mod5 basic plumbing crap he would of told me off 3 days ago . But here I am still trying to help you understand but I know now you either can’t or won’t .


That's cute. How did I insult you?
I have certs stating I have knowledge of electricity. But with 30 years of dealing with it, sure I will acknowledge I have more to learn.

You absolutely need a positive and negative to complete a circuit. That's true for DC or AC.

It has been an interesting conversation.

Plumbing is very similar to electricity, but with a few different variables to throw in. Venting or burp valves being the one most infuriating for me when figuring out how to do it.

I appreciate your own knowledge, but I only take the tone of I know what I'm talking about, when I actually have the classification to say I know what I'm talking about.

So we can agree to disagree, get into a huge escapade about this whole thing, or you might want to reconsider, after going through this thread, you might have rushed to conclusions.
I do not need validations from you or anyone as to my knowledge.
Perhaps I could use better foundations for my arguments, however I did cite a source, which you never have.

as is the motto of the website we should all Deny ignorance.


(post by Thenail removed for a manners violation)

posted on Mar, 13 2021 @ 01:43 AM
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a reply to: Thenail

The first sign of loosing a discussion is resorting to insults.

No I am not currently an Electrician, but I have held the title of Master Electrician many times in my past.

I'm done with this conversation, with respect to you and all others. Others can judge it on it's merits.

I skimmed this article that suggests you can use a phase as a neutral. Not something that I've heard before but for denying ignorance I will link it.
www.packetpower.com...

Not a troll, not ignorant. But not convinced you actually know what you are talking about.
But with that said- the above link has given me insight that I have not had before. Kinda sad I had to find it myself rather than you providing an in kind link.

Regardless, a given circuit needs a hot and neutral to complete the circuit. As I stated before.

I look forward to further discussions. And I will hope for your final sound off on this.


(post by Thenail removed for a manners violation)

posted on Mar, 13 2021 @ 05:52 PM
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a reply to: randomtangentsrme


edit on 13-3-2021 by Thenail because: Double post



posted on Mar, 18 2021 @ 12:27 AM
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originally posted by: Thenail
a reply to: randomtangentsrme

You were never a master electrician, you’re a liar . You don’t understand how electricity works . You think you need a neutral for 208 three phase . Most of the time it doesn’t . It’s definitely not always needed . You have the knowledge of a 1st year apprentice and you’re rude and when someone tells you you’re wrong you get butthurt and and like a baby . You can’t learn from reading something , are you that dumb or can’t admit you’re wrong . Both obviously . You don’t need a neutral , all the stuff I wired up , I just told you all the stuff that didn’t need a neutral . The rtus , the heaters . Has it been your job to wire up anything ever ? Hell no. You’d be fired after 4 hours at my job . You can’t wire anything . That’s why I’m telling you . Some stuff doesn’t need a neutral if it’s 3 phase , you know black red and blue or brown orange and yellow and a three pole breaker . If you can’t just accept that you’re too dumb to grasp it’s then it’s your problem . I’m done


Unlike others I do not lie.
I posted a link to support your position.
All electrical needs a neutral, just as all faucets need a drain.

Regardless. I'm not looking for a job change at the moment, but I would be interested in applying just to see if I could last more than 4 hours, if I got hired.
PM me your work contacts.

Forgive me, while I suggested I was done with the conversation, I will not allow you to defame me.
I look forward to your response by PM.



posted on May, 13 2021 @ 07:14 PM
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a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

A WYE configuration and a Delta configuration are 2 totally different things you have to label your to 277 wild leg with an orange tape, therefore you are absolutely wrong you need to add another wire.

And a step down transformer should always be checked. That's an amateur move not to check your terminations.

This above answer is from a friend of mine. Is he correct?



ETA: I only allowed him to read your first two posts fyi
edit on 5/13/2021 by Alien Abduct because: (no reason given)




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