Originally posted by akilles
I have issue with you, because the ones who's teachings you follow have their words cloaked in double meaning, where the ego being the biggest risk ACTUALLY means only the leaders are to become immensely powerful by having their egos fed constantly, leaving anyone without an equal ego powerless to stand against them.

Double meanings?? that's funny, think at least triple meanings or more.

Immensely powerful leaders????? Who would that be?

Crowley? Karl Germer? Grady McMurtry? Bill Breeze? What is this power they hold? If people were powerless to stand against them.. What is with all the rebellion out there in O.T.O. land?

Did you ever stand to think people who have real power also wield magick power?

And you ask me who these extremely powerful leaders are?

Well, I would suggest looking at anyone with Large Bank (a lot of money), and Media Ownership. They are likely to be expert wielders of manipulation, if they are in the Dark Arts, correct?

Originally posted by akilles
Did you ever stand to think people who have real power also wield magick power?

And you ask me who these extremely powerful leaders are?

Well, I would suggest looking at anyone with Large Bank (a lot of money), and Media Ownership. They are likely to be expert wielders of manipulation, if they are in the Dark Arts, correct?

Please don't change the subject again Tell me how the people who's teachings I follow are extremely powerful.. I'm kinda thick. Just how is William Breeze (The current leader of the O.T.O. in case you don't know) a extremely powerful leader? Why are you in fear of this man?

OH BTW Jimmy Page is about the only person with Thelemic leaning to have a ton of money and a media company but he never joined the O.T.O.

Originally posted by akilles
From the occult, mind control and Intelligence (agencies) have developed.
By taking over the Movie Industry, the Record companies, and by their control of the Fine Arts.........

Akilles, you confuse me.
What occult are you talking about? Western Mystery Schools, Golden Dawn, O.T.O.?
I doubt thses groups would take over industries as you suggest.

Fiat L.V.X.

I guess I would be talking about the nameless Occult groups who founded the OTO, Golden Dawn, Rosicrucians (way back when) ...

I am making the bold statement of saying this knowledge survived in a single, secret source, and that it has only been made public through front groups such as those made famous in the Occult revival of the 20th century.

All previous (ancient) occult groups have had SEVERE disinformation spread about them to confuse the issue, and aboriginal cultures have had their 'magical' knowledge destroyed for centuries, to hide the alternatives (or some would say truths) of the use of Occult Magick.

A group like Pythagoras', which today is only known for severe obsession with numbers, was most certainly involved with the supernatural aspects of this world, as it would be their biggest questions, and thus THEIR BIGGEST SECRETS.

I'm with you akilles. I believe I understand the point you're maiking in a round about way. People think they know whats going on when they have knowledge of something new, but they really don't because the secret knowledge is still that secret.

This is their way of giving us the false appearance of power, when in reality, the knowledge they have would snuff us out like a candle.

Keep going akilles. I'm in to both sides of this thread.

Learn me more

Originally posted by akilles
I guess I would be talking about the nameless Occult groups who founded the OTO, Golden Dawn, Rosicrucians (way back when) ...

Your guessing at what *your* talking about? oh my! That sure explains why you can't back up a single thing you say... your just guessing.

Originally posted by akilles
I have issue with you, because the ones who's teachings you follow have their words cloaked in double meaning, where the ego being the biggest risk ACTUALLY means only the leaders are to become immensely powerful by having their egos fed constantly, leaving anyone without an equal ego powerless to stand against them.

So you can't answer me about my powerful leaders because your just guessing correct?


[edit on 22-3-2005 by Cug]

Its no guess, they just have no public affiliations with your little 'magic teaching' schools, because they learnt about this as kids.

Look at Rothschild, he chose the Hex as his family emblem, and only afterwards did it become the Star of David. What do you think they knew that we didn't?

Look at Rockefeller. Owned the building in which the United Nations is located.

Look at Kissinger. (Each letter has a value of its place in the alphabet, X6)

K-66
I-54
S-114
S-114
I-54
N-84
G-42
E-30
R-108
-------
666

Or New York
N-84
E-30
W-138

Y-150
O-90
R-108
K-66
------
666

So the only powerful Dark Magicians are self-admitted, and they waste their time distracting students who think they are ready to be involved in the Occult? Right.

You know, I was going to hold off on this one, but I will give you my 'best guess'. Take 9/11. Has anyone ever seen the symbolism that is suggested, 9 11s.

1 The Twin Towers resembled an 11.
2 The attack occurred on the 11th. 9+1+1 = 11
3 Each WTC Tower had 110 floors
4 AA (A.A. =11) Flight 11, struck the first Tower
5 Flight 77 had 65 people on board (6+5=11)
6 September 11th is the 254 day of the year (2+5+4=11)
7 11 crew members on Flight 92
8 Flight 11 had 92 people on board
9 President Bush ordered flags to fly at half mast until 9/22, making an 11 day period of mourning
Now let's write it out. 11 1(+)1 11 1(+)1 11 1(+)1 11 1(+)1 11
111
111
111
111
111
+111
666
(for people that say there is no connection to 111, I say, how many days are left in the year after September 11, 111? Good guess)

Now I don't have time to explain that 666 is not inherently 'evil' no number is. But it can be used negatively, and when it is found in its hidden form, that is what it has been used for.

[edit on 22-3-2005 by akilles]

Originally posted by akilles
Its no guess, they just have no public affiliations with your little 'magic teaching' schools, because they learnt about this as kids.

But you did say "I Guess"

Look at Kissinger. (Each letter has a value of its place in the alphabet, X6)

{{{snip}}}

Now I don't have time to explain that 666 is not inherently 'evil' no number is. But it can be used negatively, and when it is found in its hidden form, that is what it has been used for.

Interesting where did you find the X6 info? That's a new one to me. Have any proofs? Because without proofs anyone who wants to spend the time can get 2 words to equal 666.

Oh here's one for you Using the NAEQ

A=1 L=2 W=3 H=4 S=5 D=6 O=7 Z=8 K=9 V=10 G=11 R=12 C=13
N=14 Y=15 J=16 U=17 F=18 Q=19 B=20 M=21 X=22 I=23 T=24 E=25 P=26

akilles = 67 now what else equals 67? Lets see flame=67 LOL well ain't that a proof! Lets look some more Prozac=67 Well It has been suggested by others that you need it. zealot=67, well that will do for proofs. What else can we find Hummmmm?

omen=67 This is getting better (Is your real name Mr Thorn?) and carbon=67 and we all know that carbon consists of 6 protons, 6 neutrons, and 6 electrons. So in the end we have akilles = 666

Moral of the story... Don't play Gematria with a Thelemite

One more for the hell of it.

The Gematria of Nothing

A =13 B =12 C =11 D = 10 E = 9 F = 8 G = 7 H = 6 I = 5 J = 4 K = 3 L = 2 M = 1 N = 0 O = -1 P = -2 Q = -3 R = -4 S = -5 T = -6 U = -7 V = -8 W = -9 X = -10 Y = -11 Z = -12

Lets see what we got.

akilles = 29

Some proofs
fairy tale = 29 You sure tell them
happy meal = 29 Your a few fries short of one
idiotic = 29 Just like your theories
white-washed = 29 what you do over the faults of your theories

Now for the fun stuff

wicked = 29
watchman = 29
understandeth = 29
The prophet is here = 29
message = 29
alien = 29
invade = 29
disguised = 29
CIA = 29


And for a finale

akilles = 29
Shamash = 29 The Sumerian Deity of the Sun
The Numbers on the Sun's planetary square = 666

thus akilles = 666

Originally posted by akilles
Now I don't have time to explain that 666 is not inherently 'evil' no number is. But it can be used negatively, and when it is found in its hidden form, that is what it has been used for.

[edit on 22-3-2005 by Cug]

How much time did you waste coming up with equating me to Carbon and The Magical Square of the Sun? Each row of the Magical Square adds up to 111, and there are 6 rows, and 6 columns.

Yes, it is true, if you add together all the numbers (of the Magical square) from 1-36, you get 666, how is this RESONANT with my real life personality?

But it was a nice attempt at distraction, with some truly ridiculous ciphers, thanks for that.

How 'bout some real math? You know, like 6^3 x 3 + 6x3= 666
Or try adding the square of the first 7 prime numbers. (2)^2 + (3)^2 + (5)^2 + (7)^2 + (11)^2 + (13)^2 + (17)^2 = 666

And, then, using proper logic, you would follow it up with something like this:
Roman numerals for the year 1776, as printed at the base of the pyramid on the great seal (back of the dollar bill) are MDC CLX XVI. This gives a trinity of three symbols each: M DC , C LX and X VI each of which is in decending sequence for 1600, 160 and 16 in arabic numbers. The initials of this unholy trinity are MCX which is 1110 while hidden as the remainder is DCLXVI, or 666.
But what distinguishes it as AN ACT OF DECEPTION, is that 1776 is more prominently 888x2, which shows us this is an example of the Anti-Christ pretending to be Christ (an apt analogy for a misled war-making Babylon, who has all the nations drunk with her money (trade)).

And if you don't believe any of this, good for you. Because taking a starting value of 36 for the alphabet (6x6, A=36, B=37...)
S 54
U 56
P 51
E 40
R 53
S 54
T 55
I 44
T 55
I 44
O 50
U 56
S 54 = 666 (don't worry, I triple checked)

Originally posted by akilles
I take issue with part of what Tamahu has discussed, because those teachings have a Roman Catholic type taboo on sexual orgasm.

This is not true at all.

The Roman Catholic Church is basically against Sex period, which is a crime against The Holy Spirit(Sex); a crime against The Third Logos of The Superior Trinity of The Tree of Life.

They teach that The Holy Spirit is some spooky ghost who chooses to visit some and avoids others. They forbid their Priests to marry. This is part of why their Church is so screwed up.


Sex and Chastity are good things as far as Gnosis is concerned. It is fornication that is frowned upon.

One can have Sex and still remain Chaste, by practicing Sexual-Magic with their Spouse and by avoiding the orgasm. This is authentic Alchemy. This is taught in Tantric Buddhism, Taoist Alchemy and any other authentic tradition that teaches Gnosis.

Never have I slept without a sweetheart
Nor have I spent a single drop of sperm. - The Sixth Dalai Lama

Those fornicators who spill the semen could never hope to have the gift of The Holy Spirit, no matter how much they believe.

Spilling the Sexual Energy makes our Pineal Gland degenerate, which cuts off direct communication from The Divine. This energy has to be transmuted(through Pranayama and/or Sex) so that our atrophied glands become revitalized.

I have issue with you, because the ones who's teachings you follow have their words cloaked in double meaning, where the ego being the biggest risk ACTUALLY means only the leaders are to become immensely powerful by having their egos fed constantly, leaving anyone without an equal ego powerless to stand against them.

I don't know if you're referring to me, but any authentic spiritual teacher knows that ego is the main thing that keeps one from being enlightened.

This is taught in Buddhism, Shetaut Neter, Vedanta, etc.


Of course there are false Gurus who seek to have their egos fed.

This is where the student should Meditate on what they're being taught to see if it is actually helping them or not.

One should ask themself: Am I being charged all kinds of money? Am I still full of vices? Am I getting more established in Calm Abiding, or am I just as agitated as ever? Am I awaking Consciousness? Etc. Etc. Etc.




PEACE

T, I was not referring to you in regards to 'ego Masters'.

I meant the people who have authorized the OTO to pass on bits of Occultic knowledge.

If you tell others not to develop their ego, and to 'not compete spiritually', and to take the advice of those 'more spiritually advanced', they are just feeding their ego, and you are helping.

I understand what you mean that the selfish ego is at the centre of problems in many of those teachings (while I think the ego must be balanced), and I feel I understand your Tantric system as well, but I don't understand,
the re-definition of the orgasm into a Breathing technique?

Surely you could use both?

Oh I see.


Though I'd still say that the ultimate goal of any true spiritual practice should be the total elimination of the egos; of course under an authentic and honest Master, and not someone who is trying to feed their own egos(whether consciously or unconsciously).


What I mean about Pranayama, is that one who is not married obviously has to have some way to transmute their Sexual Energy and stay established in Brahmacharya(unlike most Catholic Priests). This can be done with daily Pranayama techniques.

Pranayama (Sanskrit for “restraint (ayama) of prana (energy, life force)”) A type of breathing exercise which transforms the life force (sexual energy) of the practitioner.

"Pranayama is a system of sexual transmutation for single persons." - from The Yellow Book.

One who is married and can practice Sahaja Maithuna, doesn't need Pranayama; though doing both can most definitely help.





[edit on 22-3-2005 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by akilles
How much time did you waste coming up with equating me to Carbon and The Magical Square of the Sun? Each row of the Magical Square adds up to 111, and there are 6 rows, and 6 columns.

Yes, it is true, if you add together all the numbers (of the Magical square) from 1-36, you get 666, how is this RESONANT with my real life personality?

But it was a nice attempt at distraction, with some truly ridiculous ciphers, thanks for that.

No time at all.. it's automated. As far as being ridiculous well they are used by occultists, and I would think if you want to find out our nefarious plans you might want to use the symbols that we really use.

But in the end the "true" English gematria hasn't been found. So the results are very open to personal interpretation. In greek and hebrew the letters are also used as numbers so every word can be read as a number. For example Love (Agape) and Will (Thelema) in greek both also mean 93.

How 'bout some real math? You know, like 6^3 x 3 + 6x3= 666
Or try adding the square of the first 7 prime numbers. (2)^2 + (3)^2 + (5)^2 + (7)^2 + (11)^2 + (13)^2 + (17)^2 = 666

Again I'd love to see some proofs.

occult is just old school clandestine intelligence for ancient societies. and because of the lower tech / higher common sense ratio involved, the model is still used by our clandestine agencies today (and other non gov intel buddie networks).

astrologers were just old time con men that got societies under control by being able to predict weather patterns from astronomy / meteorology and disguise it as voodoo magic ritual.

people belived it, spread it, and condoned it, giving power to the black magic ritual. and if a symbol or ritual became known, it lost its power.

this is my basic theory on why we have so many occult logos in govs today. catholics (the only other system) were a bit behind in their symbology development and kind of just borrowed from others when they took in their religious holidays like saturnia.

true xtains and hebrews are absolutely forbidden in this kind of practice, and the "worship of other gods and idols" was an offense punishable by death in OT law.

and thats why. to eliminate 2handers from the hebrew society. Also a levites main task is to be able to spot this (last sentence is my opinion)

A judge was killed in Atlanta the other day and the killer, said the News was 33 years of age. I wonder if there was any connection or if it was just a coincidence??