Senate Votes Trump ‘Won the Election in a Landslide’

"Senate Votes Trump ‘Won the Election in a Landslide’ After Hearing Evidence Presented by the House"

Why isn’t this thread title in headlines instead of ‘Senate Votes Trump Not Guilty of Inciting an Insurrection After Hearing Evidence Presented by the House?’

As Trump’s Defense lawyers pointed out many times, the Article of Impeachment was flawed in that it violated Rule 23 which says the Article of Impeachment shall not be divisible.

They argued there was more than one charge properly before the Senate within the single Article of Impeachment. That meant their ‘guilty’ or ‘not guilty’ vote applied to ALL of the charges…or NONE of them. They argued it violated Trump's due process rights and even asked that it be remedied by separating the charges for the vote.

The Senate barreled on anyway. They didn't vote separately on the charges.

In reading the Defense's written response, there were actually only two charges the Defense agreed were ‘properly’ before the Senate:

1.) Inciting an Insurrection

2.) Making false statements (Trump's statements he “won the election in a landslide’ and his specific claims about election fraud in his rally speech, which were incorporated by reference)

***

The legal effect of the House leaving it to the Senate to determine if Trump’s statements that he won the election (and won in the disputed states) were false, was found to be Constitutional when the Senate voted to proceed with the trial. The House presented their argument and *cough* evidence that Trump’s claims were factually incorrect.

But, the Senate did not find the House had proven Trump’s claim he “won the election by a landslide” was factually incorrect, therefore the House failed to prove that Joe Biden and Kamala Harris won the election, too.

Congress skipped the process of hearing and debating the electoral count objections for reasons unrelated to the grounds of the objections -- the 'violent insurrection.' In doing so, they deprived millions of innocent voters an important legal remedy and due process, and they abrogated the protected right to make their/our votes effective. So the objections needed to be formally and properly decided by Congress.

Impeachment was the method the House chose to decide the issue and they placed it in the Senate’s hands.

I suspect this was the main objective of the Impeachment and why the House snuck it in there. They were trying to ‘legitimize’ the election via an Impeachment.

Anyway, Congress can’t go back now and divide the verdict into ‘not guilty of incitement' and ‘guilty of making false statements.’

I’ll close with Trump’s Defense Response to the allegation that he made false statements (their oral arguments are a worth a look, too).

The Senate found in favor of this argument.



Not Guilty.

There’s a goal post problem here. Main fact being the Dem’s don’t even have one anymore.

Problem solved — no post to move.

I mean, Pelosis threw a fit....

Trump's own lawyer admitted that Trump lost the election and that it wasn't rigged during the impeachment trial when he noted that Trump was voted out of office and that the people already decided to remove him and that he didn't need to be impeached. I saw him say so live on TV.

I should also note that Trump's own lawyer and Mitch McConnell both said that Trump could and should be tried in the court of law.

Why are you still believing your lies? It will end badly for you, Trump is causing problems for everyone, including Republicans and those who followed his words and stormed the capital. There is no reason to follow him, it won't help you. He will turn on you for his own ego. You are being played. I'm smart enough not to get involved with Trump, I'll tell you that much.

a reply to: darkbake

You'll have to provide me with a quote and the context or a link to that part of the transcript before I could comment on it.

originally posted by: darkbake
Why are you still believing your lies? It will end badly for you, Trump is causing problems for everyone, including Republicans and those who followed his words and stormed the capital. There is no reason to follow him, it won't help you. He will turn on you for his own ego. You are being played. I'm smart enough not to get involved with Trump, I'll tell you that much.

The Senate voted it is not false to say Trump won the election in a landslide. It was properly decided and a court cannot determine otherwise. The electoral count is regulated by Congress. It's a political question.

As to the rest, I am well-aware that no one can really be trusted and I have my guard up always. Thank you for your concern.

a reply to: darkbake
Why are you still believing your lies? It will end badly for you, Trump is causing problems for everyone, including Republicans and those who followed his words and stormed the capital.

Except they went in before he spoke. Get your timeline together.

a reply to: mikell

Lol, my timeline is extremely intact. Trump was spreading the lies about election fraud that directly lead to the assault months before the assault. He was the one who told them all to come to Washington D.C. on January 6th. And he already knew how violent his supporters were after the assault on the Michigan state capital earlier last year. All of that happened WAY before anyone stormed the capital.

And look what happened to those that did - they got charged and arrested, and not pardoned by Trump or any of that. Trump threw them under the bus.

Enjoy your leader! Have fun!

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: darkbake

You'll have to provide me with a quote and the context or a link to that part of the transcript before I could comment on it.

Is a YouTube video good enough for you? This is Trump's lawyer making the argument that the voters already voted Trump out of office, therefore he shouldn't be impeached.

a reply to: darkbake

It's not for Van Der Veen to decide who won the election...it's not up to Trump either. It's up to Congress and the House left it to the Senate to decide via Impeachment.

The House had all the opportunity in the world to prove Biden won. The burden of proof was on the House...their choice.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

If that's the case, how come Trump hasn't been sworn in again, then? The last time I checked, he's still out of office. Maybe that's because over 60 courts threw out his case... and his assault on the capital was stopped.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: darkbake
Why are you still believing your lies? It will end badly for you, Trump is causing problems for everyone, including Republicans and those who followed his words and stormed the capital. There is no reason to follow him, it won't help you. He will turn on you for his own ego. You are being played. I'm smart enough not to get involved with Trump, I'll tell you that much.

The Senate voted it is not false to say Trump won the election in a landslide. It was properly decided and a court cannot determine otherwise. The electoral count is regulated by Congress. It's a political question.

Good luck with that stance, I highly doubt it will get you anywhere. Biden is still President, am I right?

originally posted by: darkbake
a reply to: MotherMayEye

If that's the case, how come Trump hasn't been sworn in again, then? The last time I checked, he's still out of office. Maybe that's because over 60 courts threw out his case... and his assault on the capital was stopped.

Maybe he took the Oath at home in his bathroom by reading it out loud a few minutes before noon on January 20th...just in case?

There were/are still cases pending at the SCOTUS.

originally posted by: darkbake

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: darkbake
Why are you still believing your lies? It will end badly for you, Trump is causing problems for everyone, including Republicans and those who followed his words and stormed the capital. There is no reason to follow him, it won't help you. He will turn on you for his own ego. You are being played. I'm smart enough not to get involved with Trump, I'll tell you that much.

The Senate voted it is not false to say Trump won the election in a landslide. It was properly decided and a court cannot determine otherwise. The electoral count is regulated by Congress. It's a political question.

Good luck with that stance, I highly doubt it will get you anywhere. Biden is still President, am I right?

Is he? I didn't witness a Constitutional Oath, as it turns out.

If Trump took the Oath while drinking a diet Coke, just before noon on January 20th, that's the Constitutional Oath.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: darkbake

It's not for Van Der Veen to decide who won the election...it's not up to Trump either. It's up to Congress and the House left it to the Senate to decide via Impeachment.

The House had all the opportunity in the world to prove Biden won. The burden of proof was on the House...their choice.

Nonsense. The Senate and Congress decided the question on Jan. 6 when they counted the votes as required by the Constitution and declared Biden the winner and Trump the loser.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

It's up to Congress and the House left it to the Senate to decide via Impeachment.

And they did, but not through impeachment. Congress counted the electoral votes and voted to certify the 2020 election, that Joe Biden won, in the early hours of January 7th, after Trump's "patriots" stormed The Capitol and tried to stop the certification from happening.

double

originally posted by: 1947boomer

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: darkbake

It's not for Van Der Veen to decide who won the election...it's not up to Trump either. It's up to Congress and the House left it to the Senate to decide via Impeachment.

The House had all the opportunity in the world to prove Biden won. The burden of proof was on the House...their choice.

Nonsense. The Senate and Congress decided the question on Jan. 6 when they counted the votes as required by the Constitution and declared Biden the winner and Trump the loser.

No. Trump denied the allegation that his statements were 'factually incorrect' but agreed the allegation was 'properly' before the Senate to decide.

That's the position Congress took and there was no disagreement by the Defense that it was improper to decide whether his statements were factually correct or not.

In fact, it is solely up to Congress to decide.

a reply to: darkbake

“Followed his words”

So you’re saying they had a time machine? They went into the future, heard him say “storm the building and try to murder people” (or something close to that, right?)
Then they went back in time and obeyed his commands? (Which also occurred with no ‘violEnce’, unlike bLDm and aNtifa dEmocrat supporters)

Are you deluded?

a reply to: Breakthestreak

Trump authorized 10,000 National Guard troops to deploy at Mayor Boswer's, Nancy's, and Mitch's request two days BEFORE the rally because of credible threats.

Those aren't the actions of someone who willfully incited an insurrection as the House claimed.