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India's New M.B.T., Karna?

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posted on Mar, 20 2005 @ 08:59 AM
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i am come close to two diffrent news about India's new MBT.

can any one shade a light and the more story about what actuly it is.


don't post about what arjun is i wiil post another thread for ths soon




While the Arjun's media trial continues, the project itself resulted in a number of successful spin-offs. For instance, the bulk of India's tank fleet comprises aging T-72 tanks, some 1,700 of which are in India's inventory. One successful upgrade effort includes the mating of the Arjun's turret with the T-72's chassis, christened the 'Karna.'






DRDO preparing ‘Karna’ tank
Tribune News Service

New Delhi, March 11
After the failure of its ambitious main battle tank “Arjun”, the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has embarked upon the new generation “Karna” tank which can withstand a nuclear, biological and chemical (NBC) attack.

The DRDO has already prepared the prototype of “Karna” and is presently conducting field tests, well-placed sources said today. It would be some time before “Karna” is made available for Army trials.

“Karna”, sources claimed, would be at par with internationally leading tanks like Abrams of the USA, Leopard (Germany), Challenger (UK) and Leclerc (France).

If the “Karna” project is completed at an early date, it would be good news for the Army which badly requires new generation, indigenously-made tanks. “Arjun” was a resounding failure and was rejected a decade ago by the then Army chief Gen V.N. Sharma on grounds of technical deficiencies.

Though the Army had recently placed an order for 120 “Arjun” tanks, it was unlikely to place a new order for “Arjun”, sources said.



1st para full story

www.rediff.com...

2nd para full story

www.tribuneindia.com...


[edit on 21-3-2005 by ADVISOR]




posted on Mar, 21 2005 @ 10:07 PM
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DRDO's latest experimental tank designated 'Tank-Ex' is an Arjun/T-72 hybrid integrating the weapon system and armor of the former with the automotive system of the latter. Most of the Arjun's features including the 'Kanchan' armor and 120 mm rifled gun, not to mention GPS, NBC protection, Thermal Imager integrated into the gunner's main sight and a standby articulated sight, have been included. The tank has a combat weight of 47 tonnes, a power to weight ratio of 21 HP/tonne, ground pressure of 0.94 kgf/cm² and achieves a maximum speed of 60 km/h on road.







www.acig.org...


[edit on 22-3-2005 by mirza2003]



posted on Apr, 18 2005 @ 08:09 AM
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Tank-Ex: DRDO's New Tank

Nitin Venkatesh

www.bharat-rakshak.com...






Tank-Ex is a significant development and is the second attempt (after the successful Combat Improved Ajeya /upgraded T-72M1)by the Arjun MBT developers to harness its technology spin-offs. The Tank Ex appears to be an ideal solution for upgrading the Indian Army's vast and aging T-72M1 fleet. Having undergone six months of trials in Rajasthan till now, it will presumably need many more to be fine tuned per Army requirements. However, it must be noted that the two crucial "parts" of the Tank Ex - namely the Arjun turret with its weapon system and the T-72M1 (Ajeya) platform/chassis are well tested and already certified by the Army.

General details:

Crew: 4 - commander, gunner, loader and driver.

Combat weight: The Tank -Ex at 47 tons is heavier than the T-72M1 (41 tons) and much lighter than the Arjun MBT, which tips the scales at 58.5 tons.

Power plant:The Tank-Ex has a 1000 hp power plant (as on the Combat Improved Ajeya) giving a power to weight ratio of 21 hp/ton for a weight of 47 tons. This represents an improvement over the T-72M1's 20 hp/ton with a weight of 41 tons and an 780 hp power plant.

Ground pressure: 0.94 Kgf/cm Square, marginally higher than the T-72M1's 0.90 Kgf/cm square.

Suspension: Torsion bar with hydrostruts; also an improvement over the T-72M1 torsion bar system.

Dimensions: The usage of the T-72M1 chassis gives the Tank Ex a lower silhouette than the Arjun MBT, which stands tall at 3.03 meters (over AD gun mount).

Length (gun forward): 9.19metres

Width(over tracks): 3.37metres

Height(over AD gun mount): 2.93metres

Ground clearance: 0.47metres

Armament: The Tank Ex utilizes the Arjun MBT's 120mm rifled gun firing unitary APFSDS and HESH semi combustible cartridge case ammunition. A total of 32 rounds are carried as compared to 39 in the Arjun and 45 two piece ones in the T-72.The Arjun's armament system is the most powerful one available to Indian developers today. The choice of calibre, weapon design and ammunition make it superior to the in-service 125mm 2A46 guns on the T-72M1. The Tank Ex retains the Arjun's third generation director type integrated FCS (Fire Control System) including a sophisticated digital ballistic computer. It may be noted that the Arjun FCS is an updated one(with digital components replacing the original analogue ones) as compared to the original, which faced numerous technical problems. Firepower trials validated the efficacy of the updated Arjun FCS and led to its recent acceptance by the Army. Capable of firing on the move, the Tank Ex also is fully "night ready" with the gunner having a thermal imager integrated with his main sight. A standby articulated sight is provided as backup for the main sight. The tank commander (as in the Arjun MBT) has his own fully stabilized sight with relevant controls for surveillance, target acquisition and engagement, giving excellent hunter-killer ability. The gun control system is electro-hydraulic. Gun elevation/depression is +16.5 deg/-10 deg , better than the T-72M1's + 14 deg/-6 deg. As in the Arjun MBT and the T-72M1, a co-axial 7.62mm PKT machine gun and a 12.7mm NVST Heavy Machine gun(air defense) are standard. The tank also incorporates an Auxiliary Power Unit (APU) to operate the weapons systems in silent watch mode.

Navigational aids: A global positioning system is provided for accurate navigation. This is a feature common to both the Arjun MBT as well as the Combat Improved Ajeya .

Protection: The Tank Ex utilizes the state of the Art composite armor-"kanchan"-especially over its frontal arc(Turret as well as glacis) giving excellent protection against both Kinetic and Chemical rounds. The usage of the Arjun turret design indicates that the Tank-Ex may also have its "ready" ammunition stored in the bustle (as in the Arjun),separated from the crew and provided with blow off panels. This would be a significant protective feature in line with "western" design practices. Kanchan is an extensively tested and successful armor, which is available for retrofit to other IFV programs. The Tank Ex also has fully integrated Nuclear Biological and Chemical (NBC) protection The usual turret mounted 81mm antithermal smoke grenade launchers are also standard on the Tank-Ex.

Performance and Obstacle Negotiation: The Tank Ex retains the T-72 attributes of speed and agility with a maximum speed of 60 km/hr (on road) and 40 km/hr (cross country).While the gradient climbing at 30 degrees it remains in line with all variants of the T-72 like the B(M). The Tank Ex is better at trench crossing.(2.6 metres as compared to the T-72M1's 2.28 meters).Vertical Obstacles 0.85 metres tall can be surmounted, same as the T-72M1.Shallow fording is quoted as 1.2 metres.











posted on Apr, 18 2005 @ 08:51 AM
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Seems like a decent upgrade, however the T-72 Chassis isn't the best out there.

The turret is possibly close to on par with modern MBTs but the Chassis definitly isn't...but it will do



posted on Apr, 18 2005 @ 09:11 AM
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but cheap spin off really save preci. time and money.also base is upgraded version.deadily combanation.



posted on Apr, 18 2005 @ 12:53 PM
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looks more like a Challenger 2 wannabe.



posted on Apr, 18 2005 @ 01:07 PM
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this kind of products is really a plus point of in house technology.



posted on Apr, 18 2005 @ 02:12 PM
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Leopard (Germany), Challenger (UK)


compete with Leopard I and Challenger I?




posted on Apr, 18 2005 @ 03:32 PM
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WTF... the turret doesn't have angled sides? But I do think that it is a good step forward for India.



posted on Apr, 18 2005 @ 03:59 PM
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Originally posted by deltaboy
looks more like a Challenger 2 wannabe.


Looks nothing like a challenger II










posted on Apr, 18 2005 @ 11:27 PM
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nothing to say everybody has own in thoughts.

but it has his own class



posted on Apr, 19 2005 @ 01:32 AM
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it looks like a Leopard 2 tanks before the A6 upgrade



posted on Apr, 19 2005 @ 01:36 AM
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What benefits do the angles turret stations have??



posted on Apr, 19 2005 @ 03:28 AM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3
What benefits do the angles turret stations have??


effective thickness of the armour and chance of the round deflecting from it.

i haven`t got a picture to explain but:

if you have a 1" thick piece of steel , and its vertical , the effective thickness is therefore 1"

give it a 45 degree angle and you have increased the effective thickness by 50%

a simple way to how this is by holding a piece of paper vertical then angle it 45 degree`s, the slope of the paper increases the area that teh round strikes ; and the depth of the paper and overall depth that the round needs to penetrate to in order to breach it.


probably not the best explanation - but im rushed this morning.



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 01:39 PM
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but DRDO said that kanchan armour is suficent to protect tank from
incoming shell or missile.

probabley they left room for ERA. incase if in futer need arise



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by Lucretius

Originally posted by deltaboy
looks more like a Challenger 2 wannabe.


Looks nothing like a challenger II








Not get off topic, but this has puzzled me for a while.

Does anyone know what the direction of the chevron's indicate


In the first pic they are pointed backwards, and in the second they point forward.

I have noticied that on the American tanks they generally point upwards like this










[edit on 16-5-2005 by warpboost]

[edit on 16-5-2005 by warpboost]



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 03:06 PM
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No offence meant but I dont think the Tank-Ex can be called India's next MBT.

IMO the Tank-Ex is a candidate for upgradation of India's T-72's under the "Project Rhino".Here are the options India has for project Rhino.




The Russians:
Russia has its own T-72M1 improvement program on offer - it covers all the aspects of the Indian program, albeit with Russian made components. The ERA is a new design and is claimed to offer enhanced protection against both FSAPDS and anti-tank guided missiles. The T-72M1 will be modernized on lines of the T-90S which India already operates. For example, the new Fire Control System would permit engagements with the Refleks gun launched missile. The commander would be able to take over the engagement as well. A thermal imager would also be provided for night fighting. Two axis stabilisation, as in the T-90S, would enable fire-on-the-move capability. The Russians also have a range of ammunition on offer for the 125mm 2A46 gun. The engine would also be upgraded to 1000 hp. India could also seek to incorporate more esoteric devices - such as an anti-mine device working on the principle of electromagnetic suppression. Russian Laser Warning Systems are also available, if India were to opt for them. The Shtora EOCMDAS (Electro Optic Counter Measures Defensive Aids Suite) has been repeatedly advertised as well, but its selection is doubtful at present - given that even the Indian T-90S do not have them.

The Poles:
Poland is seeking to expand its involvement in the T-72M1 upgrade program as well. Having supplied the Drawa-T FCS, it has offered to upgrade the tanks to its own PT-91 standard, with a Polish reactive armour package and laser warning receivers. PZL Wola also manufactures its own 1000 hp engine. The FCS on offer would be the Drawa-T to offer maximal commonality with India's prior purchases. Incidentally, Poland is also supplying the PT91M to Malaysia - these tanks have the even more modern French Savan 15 FCS, derived from the one on the French Leclerc MBT. Poland has also modified its 125mm FSAPDS-T rounds with a new high penetration tip, with a claimed penetration of 560mm at 2 km.

The Israelis:
Israel has now emerged as one of India's biggest defence suppliers. It has supplied the thermal imagers for India's tank upgrade as well as 125mm FSAPDS ammunition for the T-72 fleet in the past. Anti-tank munitions are part and parcel of the Israeli defence establishment's product line. Israel has extensive experience in the tank upgrade arena - it has converted captured Russian-manufactured tanks into armoured personnel carriers and has constantly updated its older tanks (M-47, M-60, Centurion) to impressive standards. Israel has its own series of armour - reactive and passive, fire control systems, stabilisation systems, countermeasures - all of which are on offer for upgrade purposes. Israel manufactures its own Main Battle Tanks - the Merkava series - with the Knight Mk3 Fire Control System (on board the Merkava 3) having been repeatedly advertised for sale to India. A consortium of Israeli firms - including Israel Military Industries, Tadiran and Elbit - has put its best foot forward to compete for Project Rhino. Given attractive offers of offsets and technology transfer, they might have a winning chance. Tadiran has already supplied quite a few state of the art communication suites to the Indian Army.

The Ukrainians:
Morozov of Ukraine, have also come forth with various proposals to upgrade the Indian T-72M1 fleet. Given their deep involvement with the Pakistani tank programs - Al Khalid (Norinco MBT 2000), Al Zarrar ( Type 59 upgrade) and the T-80 UD/T-84 sale - their chances of winning the Indian contract seem slim at best. That prospect has not quite dampened their spirits. Ukraine has also offered its latest laser beam riding 'combat' 125mm gun launched anti-tank missile to India. A derivative of the Russian Refleks, its heavier than the Russian round and is of similar configuration.

The Dark Horse:
Then there is DRDO's Tank-Ex. More of a de novo development, rather than an upgrade - this project sees the Arjun's firepower and protection coupled with the T-72M1's low profile and agility. The Arjun's turret is integrated with the T-72M1's hull. The armour is the Kanchan and a 1000 hp power plant (an up rated 780 hp engine) is standard. An APU (Auxiliary Power Unit) is also provided. The Tank-Ex will also benefit from the Arjun-LAHAT integration. Two prototypes have been built and are to be demonstrated to the Indian Army this year. Once the trials are successful, some 300 tanks could be ordered. It has been suggested that T-72M1 hulls will be imported from Russia instead of utilising the existing T-72M1s in the Indian inventory. In that case, the Tank-Ex would be more of a new acquisition rather than part of Project Rhino.

"project rhino" full details


India's real MBT is the Arjun



Crew: 4 (Commander, Gunner, Loader & Driver).

Combat Weight: 58,500 kg (58.5 tonnes).

Power-to-Weight Ratio: 23.93 hp/ton.

Ground Pressure: 0.84 kg/cm2.

Length: 10.194 metres.

Width: 3.847 metres.

Height: 2.32 metres.

Ground Clearance: 0.45 metres.

Maximum Speed: 72 km/h (45 mph) - road.
.......................40 km/h (25 mph) - cross-country.

Maximum Range: Un-refuelled range in combat; 450 km (280 miles) - estimate.

Maximum Fuel Capacity: 1610 litres.

Gradient: 77º.

Slide Slope: 40%.

Vertical Obstacle: 0.9 metres.

Trench Crossing: 2.43 metres.

Shallow Fording: 1.4 metres.

Engine: Prototype variants are fitted with a MTU 838 Ka-501 (from Germany) 10-cylinder, liquid-cooled, diesel producing 1400 hp @ 2400 RPM. Production variants will reportedly be fitted with a locally-designed engine developing 1500 hp.

Transmission: Prototype variants have a semi-automatic transmission (from Germany) with 4 forward and 2 reverse gears. Renk Epicyclic with hydrodynamic torque converter. Production variants will have a locally designed semi-automatic transmission, hydrodynamic torque converter, retarder and integral system.

Suspension: Hydro-pneumatic. The aluminium alloy rubberised track blocks have rubber-bushed pins, the track tensioners have a built-in overload protection.

Steering: Double radii, mechanical steering with neutral turn.

Brakes: Hydraulically operated high performance disc brake that is incorporated into the final drive.

Electrical System: Not known.

Armament: 1 x 120mm rifle bore, electro-slag refined main gun with 39 rounds (HE, HEAT, HESH, APFSDS and smoke).
...............1 x 12.7mm anti-aircraft machine gun with 1000 rounds - estimate.
...............1 x 7.62mm co-axial machine gun with 3000* rounds - estimate.

Fire Control System: Bharat Electronics AL-4421 Mk.1B Digital FCS.

Turret Power Control: Electro-Hydraulic / Manual.

Gun Elevation/Depression: +20/-10º.

Gun Stabiliser: Vertical / Horizontal.

Rangefinder: Laser from Barr & Stroud Ltd., with a reported range of 10 km.

Smoke Grenade Launchers: Nine forward-firing smoke grenade discharges, mounted on either side of the turret, with the upper layer having five tubes and the lower layer having four.

Projected Variants: Engineer Tank
..........................Artillery Support
..........................Observation Post Vehicle
..........................Armoured Recovery Vehicle
..........................Air Defence (Gun or Missile)
..........................Armoured Vehicle Launched Bridge

The integrated digital fire control system installed in the Arjun Mk.1 MBT consists of a laser rangefinder, ballistic computer, thermal imaging night sight, meteorological sensor, stabilised panoramic sight for the tank commander, stand-by (articulated) sighting telescope, GPS and an electronic gate to ensure a first round hit probability. The third generation director type, fire control system with a 120mm gun electronically slaved to the sights, enables the gunner to locate, identify, track, range and engage moving targets while its moving. This gives a high first round hit probability. The gunner's main sight consists of a day sight, thermal sight, laser rangefinder and stabilised head common, to all three channels. The common sighting head mirror is stabilised in elevation and azimuth. The day sight has dual magnification while the thermal imager provides a night vision facility to the gunner and the commander to observe and engage targets under conditions of total darkness and smoke. The laser rangefinder is integral with the gunner's sight.

The panoramic sight enables the commander to effect an all-round surveillance on the battlefield without moving his eyes from the sight and without being disturbed by the motion of the turret. The field of view is stabilised with the help of a two-axis rate gyro mounted on the platform of the head mirror. The sight has dual magnification. The ballistic computer, computes the gun laying data based on information provided by a number of sensors mounted in the vehicle and on manual inputs and provides the signals corresponding to the tangent elevation and azimuth offset. To increase the accuracy of the firing, the fire control system has a coincidence window that allows firing of the main armament only when it reaches the desired position as dictated by the computer. The 120mm rifled gun will fire APFSDS (Armour Piercing Fin Stabilized Discarding Sabot), HESH (High-Explosive Squash Head), HE (High-Explosive), HEAT (High-Explosive Anti-Tank) and smoke rounds. A special 120mm anti-helicopter round is under development as well. All 120mm rounds use a semi combustible cartridge case.

The 120mm rifled gun is made of ESR steel and is fitted with a thermal sleeve and a fume extractor. The thermal sleeve prevents irregular temperature distribution on to the tube due to the weather influences. A new high energy propellant is used in the 120mm rifled gun to give a higher muzzle velocity and therefore greater penetration characteristics. A 7.62mm machine gun is coaxial with the main armament and a 12.7mm AA machine gun is fitted for anti-aircraft defence. Production Arjun MBTs will also have a new composite laminate armour called Kanchan. This will be produced by Mishra Dhatu Nigam Limited (MDNL). The tank also has a NBC (Nuclear-Biological-Chemical) system that is designed & built by BARC and a night vision device built by IRDE. To further enhance combat survivability, the tank has an auto-fire detection & suppression system. Ammunition is also stowed in water tight containers to reduce the risk of fire.







[edit on 16-5-2005 by Stealth Spy]



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 03:16 PM
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tank which can withstand a nuclear, biological and chemical (NBC) attack


Now, I would be very happy to see the tank withstanding the nuclear attack.



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by longbow

tank which can withstand a nuclear, biological and chemical (NBC) attack


Now, I would be very happy to see the tank withstanding the nuclear attack.


NBC protection is a standard feature of all modern tanks :

The Challenger-2 has it too >> link

and so does every other modern tank around : link



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by Stealth Spy

Originally posted by longbow

tank which can withstand a nuclear, biological and chemical (NBC) attack


Now, I would be very happy to see the tank withstanding the nuclear attack.


NBC protection is a standard feature of all modern tanks :

The Challenger-2 has it too >> link



I know, I know, it's just against radiation but the considering the words "nuclear attack" - it looked like it was suposed to withstand direct hit.
I know, I'm just nitpicking...



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