Did the Pfizer / Moderna / Oxford vaccines cause "SuperCOVID" strains to appear?

a reply to: marg6043

The vaccine was never tested on anything but a few handful of subjects very healthy between ages of 18 and 55 years of age,

21,720 is a "handful? "

A total of 43,548 participants underwent randomization, of whom 43,448 received injections: 21,720 with BNT162b2 and 21,728 with placebo.

"Very healthy?"

Adults 16 years of age or older who were healthy or had stable chronic medical conditions, including but not limited to human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), hepatitis B virus, or hepatitis C virus infection, were eligible for participation in the trial. Key exclusion criteria included a medical history of Covid-19, treatment with immunosuppressive therapy, or diagnosis with an immunocompromising condition.

"Between 18 and 55 years of age"

The median age was 52 years, and 42% of participants were older than 55 years of age

www.nejm.org...

a reply to: Phage

Yeah, that is what big pharma said, but never showed up their findings, the real subjects or the results in paper, just like China that claim the vaccine was given to 1m people but until this day is not data, no paper work and numbers to account for anything, just hear say.

Pharma pushed for the vaccine to be approved and never gave anything to show how good the vaccine is but heir word.

Soo typical, right now anybody that takes the vaccine is their testing rats in real life. Pfizer can take it, after all they are the biggest holder of law sues right now in the US up to 1b dollars, I think I will wait for a few years before taking their word for it on this one.

a reply to: marg6043

but never showed up their findings

What are you talking about? What do you think I linked?

Pharma pushed for the vaccine to be approved and never gave anything to show how good the vaccine is but heir word.

Wrong. Just like you were here:

The vaccine was never tested on anything but a few handful of subjects very healthy between ages of 18 and 55 years of age,

a reply to: Phage

Good for you,

a reply to: dontneedaname

How Do Viruses Mutate and What it Means for a Vaccine?

You asked "Did the Pfizer / Moderna / Oxford vaccines cause "SuperCOVID" strains to appear?"

Well, if we look at how a virus mutates we may see a way that it may be possible for a super strain to develop.

Antigenic Shift

Influenza viruses undergo antigenic shift, an abrupt, major change in the virus’s antigens that happens less frequently than antigenic drift.

It occurs when two different, but related, influenza virus strains infect a host cell at the same time.

Because influenza virus genomes are formed by 8 separate pieces of RNA (called “genome segments”), sometimes these viruses can “mate,” in a process called, “reassortment.” During reassortment, two influenza viruses’ genome segments can combine to make a new strain of influenza virus.

www.breakthroughs.com...

This may also explain why we have seen so little reporting on the seasonal flu that is common for this time of year, and very little reporting of the number of deaths from the seasonal flu.

If COVID is infecting people at the same time as the seasonal flu, that would be a possible recipe for a mutation of the virus. If you add in the factors of the number of years we have been injected with flu vaccines containing viruses from the year before, to reduce the effects the flu of the present seasonal year, it would also add another level of possibilities for creating a super corona strain. Since each flu injection previously was from a different strain and often those strains were mixed into one injection.

I am not saying that this is what happened, it is just my sharing what I see as a possibility. They are very honest that they don't know as much about this virus as they would like to, at this point it is all guess work.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines contains no viral material so that would not seem to apply.


In any case, it seems the variants were around before the vaccines were in use.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

What I read is that the way the vaccine targets the protein in the cells to fight the virus could cause problems with a new wild mutation of covid that could be more virulent on those that have the vaccine. But that is just something I read.

a reply to: Phage

It would apply if you already have the flu and were exposed to COVID, and received the vaccine.

This mutation could occur in that scenario even if a vaccine was not received, but since it effects immune response, it could have some effect, possibly even a booster effect.

Again, I am not saying that is what happened. I am looking at the possibilities.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

That sounds like science fiction virus, is any other virus that have combine with another one to form a super virus yet?, now if covid is just a regular typical virus nothing should happen, but if indeed it was tampered with when it was released from the lab who knows what will happen a few years down the line. Interesting to see.

originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

What I read is that the way the vaccine targets the protein in the cells to fight the virus could cause problems with a new wild mutation of covid that could be more virulent on those that have the vaccine. But that is just something I read.

That is why I was looking at the possibility of the vaccine's effect on the immune response in an environment where a person is exposed to two different, but related, influenza virus strains, where the host cell is infected by both at the same time. That being COVID and the seasonal flu.

originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

That sounds like science fiction virus, is any other virus that have combine with another one to form a super virus yet?, now if covid is just a regular typical virus nothing should happen, but if indeed it was tampered with when it was released from the lab who knows what will happen a few years down the line. Interesting to see.

We may not have to look that far. They have been telling us the reason we have to get a flu vaccine each year, is because the seasonal flu mutates a little every year, so last years vaccine, won't protect you from the mutated virus of this year.

Now I am just thinking out loud, I don't know the answer to this one, but if they injected you each year with combo injections of past viruses, most of which have mutated from the years past, it doesn't seem that far fetched to believe at some point, especially when exposed to a new novel virus, that we would see a super virus, maybe even more novel ones.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

I know that it was a concern of the both virus infecting at the same time, but so far is not news I can find on that happening.

I know for a fact that my daughter an emergency room nurse, had the flu vaccine as is mandatory, her boyfriend got the covid, he had it pretty bad but fought the virus at home and was given remdisivir and antiviral, he had 7 days of fever, body aches and pain like flu, but then he had the chest congestion and had problems breathing, but not enough to required hosptializaton, while he had the fever my daughter noticed that she ran a fever for two days, but not other symptom, she did not tested for covid, but her boyfriend did, he was positive. I can not tell if that is relevant, she had the flu vaccine and was exposed to somebody with covid. She works with covid infected patients soo far she has done well.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

I understand your concerns, I agree it could happen, time will tell.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

It would apply if you already have the flu and were exposed to COVID, and received the vaccine.

Your source is about two flu variants creating a third. You are extrapolating quite extravagantly by applying it to the COVID virus, which is not an influenza virus.

Well I be darn, I found and article that tells of people testing positive for covid and flu at the same, time,

www.webmd.com...

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

It would apply if you already have the flu and were exposed to COVID, and received the vaccine.

Your source is about two flu variants creating a third. You are extrapolating quite extravagantly by applying it to the COVID virus, which is not an influenza virus.

I am was actually speaking of the effect that having both viruses at the same time and receiving a vaccine that has no live virus but stimulates an immune response to the COVID virus.

I said I was thinking out loud about the chances of there being a possibility of there being an negative response from the vaccine when COVID and the flu is present. If there is a possibility it could cause either or both viruses to become more virulent.

My thoughts may be extravagant, but I welcome any information that improves my understanding of the science.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

I am was actually speaking of the effect that having both viruses at the same time and receiving a vaccine that has no live virus but stimulates an immune response to the COVID virus.

Then you provided an irrelevant quote.

But why would an immune response be bad? Isn't that the point of a vaccine in the first place?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

I am was actually speaking of the effect that having both viruses at the same time and receiving a vaccine that has no live virus but stimulates an immune response to the COVID virus.

Then you provided an irrelevant quote.

But why would an immune response be bad? Isn't that the point of a vaccine in the first place?

It would be bad if the response caused serious complications, which sometimes happens.

IV. another important aspect that requires a thorough investigation is that what will guarantee that these vaccines in certain individuals and on the long run will not activate the myeloid progenitor thereby creating deadly cytokine storms instead of the lymphocytic one thereby producing therapeutic antibodies

www.bmj.com...

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

It would be bad if the response caused serious complications, which sometimes happens.

So, no immune response is better? Just get sick and see what happens? That doesn't seem to be working out well in very many cases.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

It would be bad if the response caused serious complications, which sometimes happens.

So, no immune response is better? Just get sick and see what happens?

I never said "no" immune response is good. I did say immune responses do occur that have negative consequences, sometime even deadly.

That is why I was looking at the possibilities, because in medicine, if there is a possibility of something happening, someone, somewhere, will have it happen.