America is burning and you are at fault.

originally posted by: AScrubWhoDied
I'm shocked that so many intentionally conflate this as a free speech issue.

Its not.
In America you have the right to say whatever you'd like (bar certain words in some situations).
Nobody is obliged to give you a soapbox for your words.Nobody is obliged to lend you equipment for your words.

This isnt a free speech issue, never will be, it is the equivalent of claiming a publishing house that refuses to publish my novel has violated my right to free speech.

False.

Well, since antiquated things like the second amendment and electoral college are on the block for updating, I'll use the argument I've heard from the left for going on 2 decades.

The US Constitution is old and dated. The founding fathers didn't know know that tech companies would play the role they have and obviously never intended for them to have such broad powers, such that they eclipse whole sectors of government in power and reach. Much like the founders didn't intend for me to have grenades and nuclear bombs, they didn't intend such far reaching powers being concentrated in a few large extra-governmental organizations.

There's nothing like using the constitution as a weapon after stomping on it gleefully for years.

a reply to: Helious

Spoken like a true patriot

originally posted by: AScrubWhoDied
I'm shocked that so many intentionally conflate this as a free speech issue.

Its not.
In America you have the right to say whatever you'd like (bar certain words in some situations).
Nobody is obliged to give you a soapbox for your words.Nobody is obliged to lend you equipment for your words.

This isnt a free speech issue, never will be, it is the equivalent of claiming a publishing house that refuses to publish my novel has violated my right to free speech.

False.

That depends on the terms of the agreement between the two businesses. If Amazon broke the contract they should be subject to litigation, at the minimum.

a reply to: Helious
Parler deplatformed =/= america burning.

gab, 4chan and 8kun are humming along. Maybe the parler folks need to hit them up on info on how they do that.

a reply to: daskakik

Parler is moving to the hosting platform that hosts gab and 8kun. 4chan is owned by a Japanese fellow, not sure where that's hosted.

a reply to: Hypntick
I guess america stopped, dropped and rolled.

The events of this past week have made me wonder if people are really reacting to being silenced or just to loosing their entertainment.

Progressives caring more about the "rights" of a legitimate tech-oligopoly than their fellow human beings is maybe the funniest thing I've seen in a bit. Great job.

It's also clear that there is not a single argument here in favor of censorship that can be taken seriously on any level, and most assuredly not on a philosophical level. These "arguments" are loathsome, childish, careless, half-baked. The foundation, or lack-thereof, is anathema to the design of the human mind and everything a free people stand for. It is in conflict with this website. Purposefully limiting the allowable conversation for the sake of subjectivity is disgusting, truly.

The truth is, progressives are obsessed with unrelenting, unrestricted, unquestionable progress. The ends will always justify the means. Today's arguments in favor of said advancement will be tomorrow's trash receptacle. Memory-holed for all eternity.

"tHeYrE a pUbLiShEr!!! iTs a pRiViLeGe!!!"

None of you truly embrace these temporary arguments. They are trojan horses, nothing more; they are simply your vehicle to advance to whatever authoritarianism is in store for next week. It is truly a foundation of quicksand, mixed in with some hatred, lunacy, and the permanent stop sign that is all of your limbic systems. Quite the amalgamation.

Censorship is an offense to every free-thinking, knowledge-seeking individual.

originally posted by: Helious
Greetings ATS,

Listen, I have tried very hard to stay out of things recently and let the events play out as they will without my interjection. Sadly, for all of us, I feel compelled to make this post. Make no mistake, this isn't a post on political ideology but very directly the state of our Republic.

You may or may not like Donald Trump and to be honest, for the point of this thread, it doesn't matter because to be completely honest that isn't what this is about. You see, our country much like a weather vein on the top of an old rustic barn sways from one direction to the next based on the day and while it gives you some good information on what you should expect that day, you never really worry because tomorrow will always be different.

I will not in this thread, preach, educate, speculate nor embellish what many call "wide spread voter fraud". You see, we have come to a pointe in our belief systems where the evidence of this has become what I can only describe as subjective. We don't always see the same thing and where some of us see smoke and fire..... Others only see a failed attempt at rubbing sticks together.

The things I would really like every member of ATS to focus on is not one of any fundamental political ideology we have but one of basic American principles. What has happened in the last week regarding Parler being scrubbed from the internet, over 70 thousand other accounts being banned and no less than all 3 tech giants doing this in lockstep is what we really need to take in and understand.

I may not agree with many of the things my opponents say on ATS but as the saying goes and I will take this to my grave. I will always defend your right to say it. Your viewpoint can be wrong, it can be flawed and what exposes that is open communication with those that oppose what you say. In some instances as has happened with me before on this very website, I become enlightened and realize the error in my logic.

Lets all be honest...... That doesn't always happen but without open communication, it could NEVER happen. I have seen in posts the people among us here that celebrate the deplatforming and silencing of Parler, I have seen those of you that would be happy to even go steps further.......

Maybe some of you have lost your way, hell...... Maybe we all have but at some pointe, we were all here to deny ignorance and if anyone on ATS reading this post right now thinks this type of totalitarian dictatorship of information is a step in the right direction for our country, I think you have lost your way or have been blinded by political ideology and hate.

This was NEVER what America was supposed to be nor can we allow it to happen, left, right or center. It's not legacy of freedom we want to pass down to our children and not something we can be proud of. Put the differences aside for a bit and understand how important an implication like this is because I promise you......... If we allow this, it never ends from here.

It is happening all around us, but there is nothing we can do to stop it. it is now 1983 1/2...

a reply to: TruthJava
Nah, just saw the latest Wonder Woman movie, it's most certainly 1984.
(scratches head... I wonder why they choose that year year in particular?)
btw, garbage tier movie 2/10..

As for the Op, great read and yeah I often had a good laugh at that old goof trump. He just never knew when to shut up, and it was very entertaining in a weird way. He failed the left by not being an actual Hitler 2.0, did very little it seems for the right at the end of the day, but worst was failing to reign in GoogBookTwit which actually could have helped all countries not just the US.

a reply to: LetTheColdCome

None of you truly embrace these temporary arguments. They are trojan horses, nothing more; they are simply your vehicle to advance to whatever authoritarianism is in store for next week. It is truly a foundation of quicksand, mixed in with some hatred, lunacy, and the permanent stop sign that is all of your limbic systems. Quite the amalgamation.

This is exactly right.

As many liberals have explained in their more candid moments, they have no principles... they can and will say and do whatever progresses their agenda.

At the same time they are holding conservatives to the values and principles that conservatives profess, but too many cannot live up to.

No, I beg to disagree. America is not burning. We haven't finished soaking it in gasoline yet.

What we should be asking ourselves is, who is holding a match?

TheRedneck

0a reply to: Helious

(i wish i had two hands to type this response, but for the moment i only have one to use. sorry.)

Political intimidation. Any other company that would take them on in a second will not and it's not based on their ideology nor Parlers, it's based on fear that they will be next.

your point here is a very important one.

it's not that a particular political ideology exists within a competitor, but rather the FEAR that the politically connected competitor has been given an immunity, and along with it an overwhelming power, which is not, and will not be, afforded to them unless their ideology aligns with that of their competitor.

this is not a healthy free market functioning normally. quite the contrary, it is quite the opposite! it is a market where only those in ideological lockstep are allowed to survive at all by virtue of governmental influence. this is not capitalism...it is totalitarianism in its purest form!

people, regardless of their own ideology, who fail to realize this have unknowingly struck a deal with a devil they don't even know, and one who will NEVER have their best interests in mind, despite what it might appear at the moment.

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: AScrubWhoDied

Not even close.


Let's look at what happened to say Parler agree with them or not.

Their app was removed by Apple and Google then servers cancelled by Amazon.

Picture getting clear yet?

Same thing will happen there.

Capitalism will take over and they will be hosted from other servers.

This will be competition in the market against Amazon and the rest. Same with platforms like Facebook and Twitter. It just takes time for markets to shift. It's happening already.

Not that straightforward and to suggest this is all political is wrong.

If parler is being used by some as a means of inciting violence as has been alleged, or libel, then parler and potentially by virtue of their contract, the platform host, can be seen as having their own legal liabilities. Why would they want to take that risk.

You may remember the ridiculous nonsense on ATS 4 years or so ago about the alleged paedophile pizza parlour (with mysterious non existent basement) that almost caused this site to be closed? Free speech never means you can say whatever you want with zero potential consequence.

Even not considering the above, free speech rules don't mean by any definition that a company has an obligation to give you a platform to vent them on.

originally posted by: Helious
if anyone on ATS reading this post right now thinks this type of totalitarian dictatorship of information is a step in the right direction for our country, I think you have lost your way or have been blinded by political ideology and hate.

Anyone on ATS reading this post who has ever had one removed for Off topic, Ill mannered, Serious violation of terms etc., understands that this type of "censorship" has been going on for years, isnt really censorship, and justifiably so. Why? Because the owners of ATS (like twitter or any other proprietary system) have the right (at present) to make the rules about what takes place or refuses to let take place on their private property.

You want to make the rules? Create your own "ATS" or "Twitter" and allow any content you like. (Not "you" but anyone at all in general)

a reply to: Helious

Lets all be honest...... That doesn't always happen but without open communication, it could NEVER happen. I have seen in posts the people among us here that celebrate the deplatforming and silencing of Parler, I have seen those of you that would be happy to even go steps further.......

Yes, lets be honest. I'm not for censorship but when a platform like parler is used to plan sedition and revolution, Parler would still exist if this wasn't the result.

a reply to: Helious

You know, I entirely agree with you but..........problem is that the tech companies are private companies and they OWN the internet......they ARE the internet and as such are free to publish what they want to publish and to censor what they disagree with. Think of it in terms of your locals newspaper. You can write a letter to the Editor, but he has the right to toss it into the trash.. He's under no obligation to publish it. Same thing with the Internet and the Big Tech companies.

Welcome to the brave new world. You can think what you want to think (for the moment) but you have no right to force the Tech companies to publish your thoughts. The result of course is that now we have entered the era of 'forced" consensus. The result is what we got with this election.

What comes next is living in the reality that you can rant and rave; you can Vote; but what you get is what the "System" gives you.

originally posted by: Ksihkehe

originally posted by: AScrubWhoDied
I'm shocked that so many intentionally conflate this as a free speech issue.

Its not.
In America you have the right to say whatever you'd like (bar certain words in some situations).
Nobody is obliged to give you a soapbox for your words.Nobody is obliged to lend you equipment for your words.

This isnt a free speech issue, never will be, it is the equivalent of claiming a publishing house that refuses to publish my novel has violated my right to free speech.

False.

Well, since antiquated things like the second amendment and electoral college are on the block for updating, I'll use the argument I've heard from the left for going on 2 decades.

The US Constitution is old and dated. The founding fathers didn't know know that tech companies would play the role they have and obviously never intended for them to have such broad powers, such that they eclipse whole sectors of government in power and reach. Much like the founders didn't intend for me to have grenades and nuclear bombs, they didn't intend such far reaching powers being concentrated in a few large extra-governmental organizations.

There's nothing like using the constitution as a weapon after stomping on it gleefully for years.

Not going to lie, its satisfying watching people use their political opponent's arguments to justify their feelings.

Almost like you're the same.

Even more satisfying to watch those that would previously give their left testicles to avoid holding big business accountable do an about face over night.

I thought you might be interested to know that Tim Berners-Lee is redoing the Internet www.google.com...

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: Helious

Lets all be honest...... That doesn't always happen but without open communication, it could NEVER happen. I have seen in posts the people among us here that celebrate the deplatforming and silencing of Parler, I have seen those of you that would be happy to even go steps further.......

Yes, lets be honest. I'm not for censorship but when a platform like parler is used to plan sedition and revolution, Parler would still exist if this wasn't the result.

I don’t usually get this blunt here, but you’re full of sh?&! Parler was not used to plan sedition. What a load of cr$@. It is so tiresome listening to the left and their screaming while they applaud Big Tech censoring conservatives. Y’all told us why don’t we conservatives get our own platform and now when it happens y’all yell that it’s sedition and you want it deplatformed. What a load of hypocrisy!

originally posted by: alphabetaone

originally posted by: Helious
if anyone on ATS reading this post right now thinks this type of totalitarian dictatorship of information is a step in the right direction for our country, I think you have lost your way or have been blinded by political ideology and hate.

Anyone on ATS reading this post who has ever had one removed for Off topic, Ill mannered, Serious violation of terms etc., understands that this type of "censorship" has been going on for years, isnt really censorship, and justifiably so. Why? Because the owners of ATS (like twitter or any other proprietary system) have the right (at present) to make the rules about what takes place or refuses to let take place on their private property.

You want to make the rules? Create your own "ATS" or "Twitter" and allow any content you like. (Not "you" but anyone at all in general)

overthrowing the government, wanting to "F" someone up and/or kill them, is not a long lasting business plan for a blog/social media site...i know that reason doesn't excite you or your doom junkies, but that's basically it.