What is REALLY going on?

I know they dont rule the world but they run the communites, schools, banks, ect on a local and small scale.

As I see it, they are kind of like the "worker-bee's" of the Illuminati. Theres lots of them to fill those seats of control albeit, rather insignificant seats of power and control but vital nontheless in the thorough running of the agenda.

Originally posted by akilles
I'm not going to standby while Masonry claims to uphold certain morals worldwide, and there are so-called bad apples, who are supposed to IN NO WAY reflect on the rest.

Not true. Bad apples reflect upon the whole fraternity. Certainly there ARE bad-apples and we wish there weren't. However Freemasonry is a HUMAN institution. Part of the first degree ritual discusses the examination of prospective members and how important it is. It then goes on to say "even then, many duly and truly unprepared make their way into our Lodges.

Well, then, how can you have claimed to investigated their character?

Some people misrepresent themselves. Same way people work in jobs that require great trust for years, then the employer finds that they've been stealing from them. Some people are liars from the start, some are opportunists and Masons aren't mind-readers. Did you ever have a person hired at your place of business (assuming you work) who turned out to be somewhat less than what he or she represented him/herself to be? Happens in Freemasonry too. We had one guy join because he thought we had a BAR. In the U.S. most Lodges don't allow them (personally I wouldn't mind, but that's a different issue) We had one young man join who'd read Ronayne's Handbook of Freemasonry (Ronayne, noted hater of the Craft and born-agin Fundamentalist, praise the Lord) He told us we HAD to let him in because he knew all the secrets.
You should have seen the surpise on his face.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

How can you claim to have made these men better?

We don't claim that, we only claim to have tried. You can't FORCE someone to be better.

And we can only accuse them AFTER they are found guilty?

Unless we knew about any misdoings beforehand, why would ANYONE accuse ANYONE of ANYTHING until after they were found guilt? Or are you one of those "guilty until proven innocent" guys? Glad you didn't organize the U.S. justice system.

I am sorry, but that prevents nothing.

Some things aren't preventable. Like I said....no mind-readers. We'd have to hire ol' Green-troll for that.

Look at Ilia Pavlov, 33 degree Freemason.

Yep. I guess every 33rd Degree Freemason is a suspected racketeer now.

darn! another bad-apple.

I guess the ATS forum is too small to post a list of the GOOD apples (although a number of them have been mentioned, then disregarded by you and others who are stuck on youre continued spreading of hatred and ignorance of Freemasonry)

Originally posted by Ycon
sebatwerk, it's the freemasons that need to prove 'us' wrong.

Why? Who are you? Why would we really CARE what you think? I'm just asking, not provoking. Give me a good reason and I'm sure we'll prove you wrong. With your attitude it doesn't seem like it will be a difficult task. ...in fact I think I'll type with only my left hand.

It's your fraternity. If you found out that freemasons were a front for a satanic group that planned on enslaving the human race, wouldn't you want to find out before it's too late?

Certainly we would. That's why the majority of Freemasons don't just blindly jump in. In fact in the ceremony of initiation we're TOLD to seriously consider what we're about to do and asked several questions about our intentions and admonished that if we do not find this agreeable, we're FREE TO GO!

What most freemasons don't know is that they are the breeding ground for such people.

Here we go again.....what "such people" and BASED ON WHAT FACT? I don't want to hear that you read it on David Icke's web-site or from Ronayne's Handbook or heard it from a fundamentalist preacher (praise the Lord) I want to hear a FACT that backs up what you say. I paraphrase what you said earlier, "PROVE IT"

Are you a Mason? (I am)

Have you EVER BEEN a Mason? (I've been one for over 15 years)

Have you ever attended a Masonic meeting??????? (Far too many to count)

I don't just go down to the local lodge hall, sit through a boring opening ceremony, listen to a business meeting, then go drink aluminum flavored coffee with the boys. I've traveled to Masonic meetings all over the country and in other places around the world. I've done some writing about it (am currently working on another book about it) I communicate via legitimate Masonic forums with Freemasons all around the globe.

Can you compete with that?

Because of your oath of secrecy the lower levels do not know what goes on in the upper levels. Am I correct?

No you're not. You do not understand the hierarchy of Freemasonry. Those "upper levels" you talk about have been discussed ad nauseum here on ATS and I won't get into it. Do an ATS search. You're spouting back something you read or some paranoid friend and conspiracy kook told you, and you have no basic knowledge yourself.

So is it possible that you don't know what your getting into?

Not if you've done your homework first. I did mine WAY before I took even the first degree.

Now don't get me wrong, I believe most of the 33 levels of freemasons are basically good people,

Why do you believe that? Do you know "most of the 33 levels of freemasons" as you call them? The Thirty-Third and Last Degree of the Scottish Rite is THE most misunderstood thing about Freemasonry. It's not the "highest" level or degree of Freemasonry, the Third Degree (Master Mason) is. The 33rd Degree is peculiar to the so-called "Scottish Rite" of Freemasonry and Masons who chose not to join the Scottish Rite couldn't care less WHO'S a 33rd Degree member. Most of us who ARE in the Scottish Rite don't care, except we're proud of them for being honored for their hard work. That's what the 33rd Degree is about. Hard work and dedication...not just to Freemasonry or the Scottish Rite, it can also be conferred for hard work and dedication in the community. Dave Thomas (founder of Wendys) hardly had TIME to attend Lodge or Scottish Rite, but was made a 33rd Degree Mason because of his loving dedication to the cause of adopted children and to Shriners Crippled Childrens' Hospitals. Sound like a conspiracy??? Sounds like Masonry in Action to me.

which believe freemasons are doing good for man kind through their charitable ways.

See above

The problem I have, is that it goes beyond 33 degrees and the masons are not the only group being deceived.

Again, assuming YOU'RE NOT A MASON, how can you logically say that? How do YOU know what the Masons are doing, when we (MASONS) don't? How silly is that? You see, that's why many of us get on our soap-boxes here....by saying that, you're calling US stupid. You don't know us and we find being callled stupid offensive. (Wouldn't you?)

You don't know whats beyond the 33rd degree, infact I'm sure you believe that is the highest rank.

Nope. I said it before. It's NOT the "highest" rank. Nowhere near it. Master Mason. Third Degree.

Why do YOU believe otherwise? David Icke's site? freemasonwatch? Ephesians5-11.org ? Some fundamentalist preacher (praise the Lord) ?

Why do YOU believe otherwise? What PROOF (PROOF PROOF PROOF) do you have otherwise?

Now since the freemason are suppose to be chosen for their intelligence, intellect, money and influence in the community.

Where'd you hear that? They're supposed to be elected because of what's in their heart. intelligence is good to have, I'll admit, but I've met several who lacked in that field...money is NOT an issue except that you're expected to pay your annual dues (which in the U.S. is generally from $25 to $50 per year) Nothing else monetarily is required. Influence in the community? Not a prerequisite at all....but generally community leaders take an interest in important things. Oft times these important things include Freemasonry.

How can they not see the illuminatis control on them and other organizations?

How can YOU see it? When, where and how have you PERSONALLY seen the Illuminati controlling Freemasonry or any other organization? Did you see an ad in the paper? Did a member of the Illuminati call you and tell you? Did you attend a meeting? Are YOU a member of the Illuminati?

PROVE the lie you just told to be true! You CAN'T do it, so why post garbage? (Garbage that's been posted over and over by many others like you who think you KNOW something . . . and you don't)

What good is a genius, if he doesn't use his brain?

That would be a good question for Greenman. Somebody wake him up.

Look Ycon,

I generally don't spend this much time on a post like yours, but you might as well be started off on the right foot. If you believe all the things you say, but are unwilling to provide evidence that what you belive is true, you have no credibility. Zilch.

If you want to discuss these items, do it intelligently, don't barge in here and call all the freemasons on board "ignorant" because they (the members of the Order) aren't smart enough to know what's going on. We'll gladly discuss anything with you, but when you make bogus claims and spread lies and refuse to back up what you say, you'll be a laughing stock like the trolls. If that's what you want, it's easily arranged....keep posting in your current style. If you want intelligent discussion, well....

PROVE IT

Regards

Originally posted by Novusordo
I know they dont rule the world but they run the communites, schools, banks, ect on a local and small scale.

How do you KNOW this? Who told you? Upon what FACT is this statement based? I live in a mid-sized community (about 50,000 people) and am VERY active in local Masonic circles. I know of no Masons running the community. The Mayor isn't (he works at the bank though....hmmm) None of the council people are. One's a Knight of Columbus, we'd better check him out...the Vatican could be behind this thing as well

As I see it, they are kind of like the "worker-bee's" of the Illuminati.

WHY do you see it that way? Where did you find this out? Who told you? Did you dream it and wake up and think it was true? Did you see it on the Sci-Fi channel? Did a fundamentalist preacher (praise the Lord) tell you? Upon what FACT do you base this? ...are are you just a "believer"

Theres lots of them to fill those seats of control albeit, rather insignificant seats of power and control but vital nontheless in the thorough running of the agenda.

"rather insignificant....but vital nonetheless"

Well now, that is or isn't contradictory....isn't it....or is it?

Originally posted by HALLOWEEN78
I'm not a Mason.(Hopefully I will be reletively soon) I hold nothing against Masons. I also would believe something that much more if it were a Mason who said it. I first became interested in Freemasonry by reading the "debates" between the Masons and the anti Masons. After being here and reading the posts made by the Masons at this board, I knew that I wanted to join the fraternity.

sebatwerk, hopefully in a few years I shall be able to call you brother. Keep fighting the good fight!

Same with me. Before I came here and did some reading all I knew about Masons was that the local Lodge in my town put on an Ox roast every year. After I saw the light about what Freemasonry really is, I knew I wanted to be a part of it.

Originally posted by Ycon
sebatwerk, it's the freemasons that need to prove 'us' wrong. It's your fraternity.

I posted a big long argument against every single one of your claims, only to find that Senrak had already done the same thing. Read his reply to your post above. It says the same thing I had said. I just don't want to be redundant.


[edit on 20-3-2005 by sebatwerk]

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
sebatwerk
You're defending an indefensible position. The reasons people don't like the masons range from the mundane to the ridiculous, but they all center around one aspect of the organization; the secrecy.

But there IS no secrecy! Just because we are not allowed to talk about our rituals and modes of recognition, does not mean that they are not available for all to see in THOUSANDS of books and dozens of websites.

If you admit openly to perjury, obfuscation of the truth from jurys and judges, then you are no better than an organized crime syndicate, protecting its members.

That is a very un-masonic thing to do. The very first charge given to a mason is that he should obey all laws of his country. I can't say masons have never done that, but it is not a landmark of the fraternity, and a mason would surely be expelled for doing something like that.

You ask us to trust you? Why should we? Why should we trust an organization that protects its members from our laws, so that it can continue to indoctrinate people by making them strip naked and ride a farm animal?

Like I said above, we do not protect our members from prosecution. That's ridiculous, and you have absolutely no evidence that can prove otherwise. If you do, please bring it forward.

You ride that goat all the way to hell man, ride, ride, ride.

I thought I could reason with you, but this last line has just told me EVERYTHING I need to know about you:

yummy, that was a good lunch. but lets take a troll thru the nuetral opinion.
*SS = secret society / institution / elite / whatever

lets go over the argument that masonry is a front for other SS. those SS would be in every aspect of life including masonry , and very interested in people who have a mind for symbols and secrets. as admitted above by senrak, masonry also must have political clout if local leaders are interested in it. (because its a highly organized group).

but the SS u speak of is based on raw intelligence(smarts), and even in the side orders (not being higher rank than 3*) that are made for the purpose of recruitment (if they are) into that SS (illuminati etc.) have a very low rate at which they would aquire people . And if this SS exists (im under the impression it does) , it would not be limited to masonry as an organization. (see all political parties, think tanks, and other foundations, other NGO etc)

personally i disagree with the mixing of differing religions represented in masonry because im more of a bible fundamentalist. I think some of the views presented by masons or their sympathizers on this board border on gnosticism (jesus married, blood grail stuff). Im too lazy to see if masonry gives charity or is a charitable foundation, so i wont comment on that either. But im all for seperation of church and state, keeps my belief safe.

as a last note, can u guys either please stop calling everyone a troll?

Originally posted by senrak

Look Ycon,

I generally don't spend this much time on a post like yours, but you might as well be started off on the right foot. If you believe all the things you say, but are unwilling to provide evidence that what you belive is true, you have no credibility. Zilch.

If you want to discuss these items, do it intelligently, don't barge in here and call all the freemasons on board "ignorant" because they (the members of the Order) aren't smart enough to know what's going on. We'll gladly discuss anything with you, but when you make bogus claims and spread lies and refuse to back up what you say, you'll be a laughing stock like the trolls. If that's what you want, it's easily arranged....keep posting in your current style. If you want intelligent discussion, well....

PROVE IT

Regards

senrak, we both know that absolute proof either way is not possible at this time. Times are changing and many people will start seeing more of the conspiracy puzzle pieces. Once you have them you need to figure out how they fit. The freemason piece of puzzle fits under the illuminati piece along with many other groups or organizations. This is not a lie, it's just how they fit. Those that don't see it are ignorant. I've read Ickes information along with many other sites and people, including ex freemasons and ex illuminati's. When you realize how much people are manipulated by those in control you will start to see how they're all connected. Again I'm sorry I can't provide absolute proof, just the same sites like Ickes, illuminati news, forbidden knowledge that have been posted many times before. As more people see them sites, they will be making simular posts as mine because those sites, especially Ickes site has more of the puzzle pieces put together. So make a laughing stock out of me, infact your too late supermods beat you to it.

Originally posted by Ycon
senrak, we both know that absolute proof either way is not possible at this time. Times are changing and many people will start seeing more of the conspiracy puzzle pieces. Once you have them you need to figure out how they fit. The freemason piece of puzzle fits under the illuminati piece along with many other groups or organizations. This is not a lie, it's just how they fit. Those that don't see it are ignorant. I've read Ickes information along with many other sites and people, including ex freemasons and ex illuminati's. When you realize how much people are manipulated by those in control you will start to see how they're all connected. Again I'm sorry I can't provide absolute proof, just the same sites like Ickes, illuminati news, forbidden knowledge that have been posted many times before. As more people see them sites, they will be making simular posts as mine because those sites, especially Ickes site has more of the puzzle pieces put together. So make a laughing stock out of me, infact your too late supermods beat you to it.

HOW can you keep arguing with Senrak and making even MORE statements without offering any EVIDENCE!?!? It becomes clear that you have no proof of what you claim, and are simply repeating what you have read in a David icke book or conspiracy website. Why don't you try doing your own research? Has it occurred to you that, if there is no proof available, then maybe it's not true?

I think anything is possible, and I am more than willing to believe ANYTHING, as long as I see conclusive evidence. I do not blindly believe what people say just because it makes a good story. I suggest that you don't, either.

Senrak basically told you to either post some evidence for your claims, or stop making them. Then you go ahead and make even more! I hate to judge, but it kinda makes you look like a troll.

As a child, I read 1984, The Prince (Machiavelli), Brave New World, and Sun Tzu's Art of War.

Before 15.

And I knew then that there were some things that people were sooner killed over, than let 'absolute proof' exist.

Some things just would NEVER be provable. But if you haven't read those books, why are you reading this post, you should have stopped at the titles of the books !

Originally posted by akilles
As a child, I read 1984, The Prince (Machiavelli), Brave New World, and Sun Tzu's Art of War.

Before 15.

And I knew then that there were some things that people were sooner killed over, than let 'absolute proof' exist.

Some things just would NEVER be provable. But if you haven't read those books, why are you reading this post, you should have stopped at the titles of the books

!

In the free world, we do things a little differently than the way you trolls do it: If you cannot provide proof for your claims, then those claims are thrown out of court. They are invalid, unprovable, and faulty. You call yourself a thinking man, unignorant, yet you accept claims as fact without any evidence!?!? That's as ignorant as it gets

Originally posted by Ycon
senrak, we both know that absolute proof either way is not possible at this time. Times are changing and many people will start seeing more of the conspiracy puzzle pieces. Once you have them you need to figure out how they fit. The freemason piece of puzzle fits under the illuminati piece along with many other groups or organizations. This is not a lie, it's just how they fit.

Without proof, that statement means ZILCH

Those that don't see it are ignorant.

Yes, let's call those who want to THINK instead of blindly accept "ignorant" Let's do it with improper grammar on top of that.

I've read Ickes information along with many other sites and people,

Sorry to hear that..

including ex freemasons and ex illuminati's.

WOW! They must have been REALLY "X" illuminati's....since there are NONE and haven't been any REAL ones for years (I'm not including the crack-pots who CALL themselves that, or any of akilles friends for that matter)

When you realize how much people are manipulated by those in control you will start to see how they're all connected.

I hope so, because I was beginning to think it was just me.

Again I'm sorry I can't provide absolute proof,

Sorry. No proof, no credibility. ANYONE can spout this nonsense...and plenty do. No one has any proof.

just the same sites like Ickes, illuminati news, forbidden knowledge that have been posted many times before.

Indeed. MANY times before. [YAWN]

As more people see them sites, they will be making simular posts as mine

Then I can hardly wait for the on-coming of worthless posts that must be about to follow as people see "them" sites...

because those sites, especially Ickes site has more of the puzzle pieces put together.

If you TRULY believe that, you're beyond hope and there's no reason for any of us to respond to any more of your nonsense. I can't believe you could POSSIBLY be that ignorant, but stranger things have happened.

So make a laughing stock out of me, infact your too late supermods beat you to it.

No. Don't point fingers. You did it yourself.
..but you had your chance not to.....

'tis a shame

Originally posted by sebatwerk
I just realized something about what goes on between masons and you anti's on this forum:

All the masons on this forum have ever tried to do is point you anti's in the right directions in regards to your knowledge about Freemasonry. Rather than dispute your claims, we merely try to correct you because we truly do want you to know what the fraternity is really like. We have nothing to hide except our rituals and modes of recognition, but you guys already know those anyways.

Yet you guys don't believe a word coming out of our mouths... REAL masons with REAL, extensive and verifiable YEARS of experience and knowledge in the fraternity. Yet you guys are CONVINCED that you know more about the fraternity than us? And you think that you're qualified to talk about Freemasonry?

You guys have ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE that we have anything to hide, and the only contradictions in what we say has come from YOUR posts, not ours. All of our answers to your posts and questions have always been completely unified and consistent, even among masons in separate countries. Yet you guys constantly contradict yourselves and each other with your accusations and claims.

We masons ALWAYS provide proof and verifiable evidence for ALL claims that we make. We provide links, books and page numbers, and as detailed information as we can find. I haven't seen a single post where a mason refuses to provide evidence, especially not when asked for it. But I have NEVER, NEVER NEVER NEVER seen one of you guys back up your claims with the SLIGHTEST SHRED of conclusive evidence, and even after repeatedly being asked to provide proof, you either ignore the thread or simply refuse to. WHO HAS SOMETHING TO HIDE? Not us.

In conclusion, we as masons really ARE trying to teach you guys about the real Freemasonry, seeing as how you guys are filled to the brim with misconceptions and half-truths. We will always answer most any question you have about our fraternity in as much detail as possible. And we are very clear as to the things we cannot talk about, and WHY we cannot talk about them. Everything else is fair game, so I suggest that you take advantage of our posts and learn the truth behind our fraternity, seeing as how you guys are so interested in it. It is important to us that you guys see that our fraternity really is something to be cherished and loved, or at the very least, tolerated.

So you say that people who are anti-masons do not give reputable sources of researched info. The masonry is a fraternity within a fraternity. There is a masonry that we see that can be seen as good, but there is also the masonry that is so shrouded in the occult its ridiculous. One of your other brothers, Manly P. Hall states that" the masonry is an outer organization concealing an inner brotherhood of elect individuals. He goes on to say that it is necessary to establish these two seperate, yet interdependent orders, one visible and the other invisible. The visible brotherhood is a camraderie of 'free and accepted' men enjoined to devote themselves ethically, educationally, fraternally, patriotically, and humanitarally concerns. The invisible is a secret and most August fraternity whose members dedicated to service of a mysterious (arcannum arcandrum) a secret or mystery." Hall. TextLectures on Ancient Philosophy. THe masonry is a religion after all, after the order of the Satanic Mysteries, the equally Satanic Hermetic Philosophy, and Alchemy. Masons conceals its secrets from the visible brotherhood, no matter what their rank. Only the elect in the inner invisible society ever know the truth. The other brothers are spoon fed false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols. There is alot more and I am still researching a new book. I will have more info coming to you. 95% of masons are the visible masons who think that they know the truth. It is the 5% that you don't know that is deadly.

Originally posted by dominic77
So you say that people who are anti-masons do not give reputable sources of researched info.

That's how I read it.

The masonry is a fraternity within a fraternity.

Says who? Prove it! By the way, it's "Masonry" not "the Masonry" FYI

There is a masonry that we see that can be seen as good, but there is also the masonry that is so shrouded in the occult its ridiculous.

The only thing ridiculous is that run-on sentence. Prove what you say!

One of your other brothers, Manly P. Hall states that" the masonry is an outer organization concealing an inner brotherhood of elect individuals. He goes on to say that it is necessary to establish these two seperate, yet interdependent orders, one visible and the other invisible. The visible brotherhood is a camraderie of 'free and accepted' men enjoined to devote themselves ethically, educationally, fraternally, patriotically, and humanitarally concerns. The invisible is a secret and most August fraternity whose members dedicated to service of a mysterious (arcannum arcandrum) a secret or mystery." Hall. TextLectures on Ancient Philosophy.

Do an ATS search on Hall and learn that he wrote a LOT about Masonry MANY years BEFORE he joined Masonry. After he joined, his opinions changed. Google is your friend....do not be afraid to search

THe masonry is a religion after all,

Says who? Prove that! I say it isn't. It has no plan of salvation, offers no "eternal" life, doesn't claim to forgive sins of it's members. Religions tend to do those sorts of things...Masonry doesn't. Prove what you say or stop the lies.

after the order of the Satanic Mysteries, the equally Satanic Hermetic Philosophy, and Alchemy.

Prove that. It's been said by several others before you (and will be ignorantly regurgitated long after you're gone...but NONE of them have offered PROOF. Be the FIRST! Prove it!

Masons conceals its secrets from the visible brotherhood, no matter what their rank.

That's a lie. It's been said, over and over and over and over. Never proven. (Because it's not true, it's a lie.)

Only the elect in the inner invisible society ever know the truth.

That, too, is a lie. There are NO SUCH PEOPLE. That, TOO, has been said over and over and over. You regurgitating it won't make it true. PROVE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING or stop lying.

The other brothers are spoon fed false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols.

(See above)

There is alot more and I am still researching a new book.

Have you colored in it yet?

I will have more info coming to you.

I assure you we can hardly wait.

95% of masons are the visible masons who think that they know the truth.

Are the other 5% invisible? I guess it doesn't matter because I, for one, know the truth....I must be visible so everything's OK.

It is the 5% that you don't know that is deadly.

Once again, I say . . . .



......are you ready for this?


.......OK.......


........here goes.........

[ahem]



PROVE IT

Originally posted by dominic77
So you say that people who are anti-masons do not give reputable sources of researched info. The masonry is a fraternity within a fraternity. There is a masonry that we see that can be seen as good, but there is also the masonry that is so shrouded in the occult its ridiculous. One of your other brothers, Manly P. Hall states that" the masonry is an outer organization concealing an inner brotherhood of elect individuals. He goes on to say that it is necessary to establish these two seperate, yet interdependent orders, one visible and the other invisible. The visible brotherhood is a camraderie of 'free and accepted' men enjoined to devote themselves ethically, educationally, fraternally, patriotically, and humanitarally concerns. The invisible is a secret and most August fraternity whose members dedicated to service of a mysterious (arcannum arcandrum) a secret or mystery." Hall. TextLectures on Ancient Philosophy. THe masonry is a religion after all, after the order of the Satanic Mysteries, the equally Satanic Hermetic Philosophy, and Alchemy. Masons conceals its secrets from the visible brotherhood, no matter what their rank. Only the elect in the inner invisible society ever know the truth. The other brothers are spoon fed false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols. There is alot more and I am still researching a new book. I will have more info coming to you. 95% of masons are the visible masons who think that they know the truth. It is the 5% that you don't know that is deadly.

Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh! HE WAS TALKING ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE FRATERNAL ASPECT OF FREEMASONRY, AND THE ESOTERIC ASPECT.
He meant that some brothers care nothing for esoteric Freemasonry, it's rituals, symbols and meanings. They care purely for the camaraderie. Many masons have been saying this for a long time, and it hasn't changed. There is much moire to masonry than brotherhood, and one woiuld find a wealth of information if he took the time and effort to learn those esoteric mysteries on which freemasonry is truly based, THAT is what he meant. STOP twisting my brother's quotes to suit your own purposes!


And I agree with Senrak: either PROVE your claims with conclusive evidence, or don't bother making them.


[edit on 20-3-2005 by sebatwerk]

For instance, why do men of stature and wealth receive the 33 degree more often than a good-intentioned Mason who gave to no charities, only beggars on the street, has been a member for 16 years, and given his all, but not being a rich man, could do no more?

Proof of the 33 degrees importance to Masons (the ones who REALLY undertake large projects, you know like founding a city)
*** Tyre, Lebanon: Home of King Hiram and Hiram Abiff, the Dynamic Duo of Masonic mythology.

*** Charleston, SC: The original site of Scottish Rite Masonry in the U.S.

*** Phoenix, AZ: The mythical phoenix commits suicide to procreate. This mythical bird is the real bird of New Atlantis, a.k.a. the U.S.A.; it presently masquerades as the queer bald eagle.

*** Warm Springs, GA: Site of Brother Franklin Delano Roosevelt's "sudden death" in April 1945.

Site of JFK's death, also on the 33rd Parallel.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki are the two CLOSEST cities to the 33 parallel in Japan.

Freemasonry is a SEARCH. It leads to the Kabbalah, which is a religion, no denying it.

Originally posted by akilles
Freemasonry is a SEARCH.

Can you search your way to the u2u's. I know you can, you sent me one.

Originally posted by akilles
For instance, why do men of stature and wealth receive the 33 degree more often than a good-intentioned Mason who gave to no charities, only beggars on the street, has been a member for 16 years, and given his all, but not being a rich man, could do no more?

You have no idea who has been made a 33rd degree mason in the past, so don't try to pretend like you do. You are not qualified to be making the claims you just made. Unless you can back up your claims above, don't bother posting anymore baseless claims.

Proof of the 33 degrees importance to Masons (the ones who REALLY undertake large projects, you know like founding a city)
*** Tyre, Lebanon: Home of King Hiram and Hiram Abiff, the Dynamic Duo of Masonic mythology.

*** Charleston, SC: The original site of Scottish Rite Masonry in the U.S.

*** Phoenix, AZ: The mythical phoenix commits suicide to procreate. This mythical bird is the real bird of New Atlantis, a.k.a. the U.S.A.; it presently masquerades as the queer bald eagle.

*** Warm Springs, GA: Site of Brother Franklin Delano Roosevelt's "sudden death" in April 1945.

How is that proof of the importance of the 33rd degree? That is not proof. That doesn't even make sense. We're not even talking about that.

Site of JFK's death, also on the 33rd Parallel.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki are the two CLOSEST cities to the 33 parallel in Japan.

Yeah dude, OK.

I like how this guy starts out his page on freemasons

Here I would like to add a comment : Neither this Page nor this website is meant to be "Anti-Masonic". I do not hate the Masons. To the contrary, I have alot of respect for the ingeniousness of their "design". This is what makes it all the more challenging to expose. And challenges are what life is all about. I believe that if the Masons are going to "Push" humanity to it's potential, enough to put "strain" on the spirit of Humanity, by manipulating and influencing world events behind the scenes, then they at least deserve to held to the highest standard possible when it comes to "responsibility" for their actions. This means simply, that they deserve to be exposed and have the full "Light of Day" shined on them. This way, they will truly "HAVE TO" work towards the overall "Good", because if they don't, then it's the "Front Page of the Newspaper" for them!! Masonry itself is not what is bad, but it's means to an end, it's secretiveness and subversion and alot of it's members all contribute to the overall evil that emits from it as an organization. (All Masons are not bad people)
www.freedomdomain.com...

Oh and he has many sources listed on the bottom of the page

Heres another page. The Gurps game that the secret service raided because it was so close on the illuminatis NWO plans. SS took them to court to try and stop the sale of the game. Judge throughs it out of court, game company wins.
www.cuttingedge.org...

Here's more from the cuttingedge news. This page has over 50 links, check out the freemason corner towards the bottom. A few titles for you.

www.thewatcherfiles.com...
-FREEMASONRY TWO ORGANIZATIONS -- ONE VISIBLE AND ONE INVISIBLE -- KEY TO MASONS UNDERSTANDING WHY THEY ARE NOT SEEING THE PRACTICES AND TEACHINGS IN THEIR LOCAL LODGES WHICH WE ARE REPORTING
-FREEMASONRY PROVEN TO BE WORSHIP OF LUCIFER, SATAN - PART 1 OF 6
-FORMER ILLUMINIST WITCH REVEALS STRONG WITCHCRAFT TIE TO FREEMASONRY! "By The Testimony of Two or Three Witnesses Is The Truth Established" [Deuteronomy 17:6; 19:15]
-FREEMASONRY SOURCE CONFIRMS OUR ARTICLE, ABOVE, THAT GOVERNMENT CENTER WAS CREATED AS SEAT OF THEIR POWER

[edit on 21-3-2005 by Ycon]