What is REALLY going on?

I just realized something about what goes on between masons and you anti's on this forum:

All the masons on this forum have ever tried to do is point you anti's in the right directions in regards to your knowledge about Freemasonry. Rather than dispute your claims, we merely try to correct you because we truly do want you to know what the fraternity is really like. We have nothing to hide except our rituals and modes of recognition, but you guys already know those anyways.

Yet you guys don't believe a word coming out of our mouths... REAL masons with REAL, extensive and verifiable YEARS of experience and knowledge in the fraternity. Yet you guys are CONVINCED that you know more about the fraternity than us? And you think that you're qualified to talk about Freemasonry?

You guys have ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE that we have anything to hide, and the only contradictions in what we say has come from YOUR posts, not ours. All of our answers to your posts and questions have always been completely unified and consistent, even among masons in separate countries. Yet you guys constantly contradict yourselves and each other with your accusations and claims.

We masons ALWAYS provide proof and verifiable evidence for ALL claims that we make. We provide links, books and page numbers, and as detailed information as we can find. I haven't seen a single post where a mason refuses to provide evidence, especially not when asked for it. But I have NEVER, NEVER NEVER NEVER seen one of you guys back up your claims with the SLIGHTEST SHRED of conclusive evidence, and even after repeatedly being asked to provide proof, you either ignore the thread or simply refuse to. WHO HAS SOMETHING TO HIDE? Not us.

In conclusion, we as masons really ARE trying to teach you guys about the real Freemasonry, seeing as how you guys are filled to the brim with misconceptions and half-truths. We will always answer most any question you have about our fraternity in as much detail as possible. And we are very clear as to the things we cannot talk about, and WHY we cannot talk about them. Everything else is fair game, so I suggest that you take advantage of our posts and learn the truth behind our fraternity, seeing as how you guys are so interested in it. It is important to us that you guys see that our fraternity really is something to be cherished and loved, or at the very least, tolerated.

They can't help it, as members of a TRULY secret society they don't know that they are being controlled by their Draco masters.... David Icke and Jack Chick.

sebatwerk

For the majority of the time that I have spent here there has always been a prejudice against Masonry. Its something that really isnt going to stop. Im not a Mason and I dont prejudice against you but its just something thats probably always going to be here. I think that most of the Masons on the boards here have learned to ignore it. I know its kinda sad that you guys are getting hated on in here but its just kinda of a part of being here persay. My best of luck to you though here on these boards and dont let them hold you down.

DENY IGNORANCE

The Navajo Prophet

Originally posted by navajoprophet
For the majority of the time that I have spent here there has always been a prejudice against Masonry. Its something that really isnt going to stop. Im not a Mason and I dont prejudice against you but its just something thats probably always going to be here. I think that most of the Masons on the boards here have learned to ignore it. I know its kinda sad that you guys are getting hated on in here but its just kinda of a part of being here persay. My best of luck to you though here on these boards and dont let them hold you down.

DENY IGNORANCE

Thanks Prophet... I just figured guys would want to get the real scoop on the fraternity, rather than try to convince its members that they are wrong. It's just silly. It's kind of ironic that those guys claim to "Deny Ignorance".

I think my main concern, as well as many other mason's, is not these anti's and what they think. Rather, it's the people who are TRULY here to learn the truth, I'm afraid their honest research will be clouded and overtaken by these hatemongers and their garbage. Deny ignorance indeed.

sebatwerk said:

I think my main concern, as well as many other mason's, is not these anti's and what they think. Rather, it's the people who are TRULY here to learn the truth, I'm afraid their honest research will be clouded and overtaken by these hatemongers and their garbage. Deny ignorance indeed.

Even though the anti-Masons and trolls spew their nonsense here on ATS, you never know how many lurkers and posters learn the truth about the good of Masonry. I am one of those who formerly distrusted Masonry. I had just read on of Icke's books, you see. (although I do not think Icke is wrong in everything he prints)
The Masons here showed me that there is no evil agenda in Masonry.

I know of other posters here who have either thought about joining or actually joined Masonry beacause of the Masons here.
The truth will prevail, for those who are ready to see it.

Hey, I got my two sponsors and paid my initiation fee and YOUR the ones who told me to reapply in 6 months.

Six months later I was a new husband with a child on the way and learning your secret handshake was the last thing I was interested in at the time.

If I want to call you a bunch of fruit loops I will. I didn't reject you, you rejected me.

From what i've learned of the Masons since, I give thanks to my creator that you did.

Love and light,

Wupy

Sebatwerk:

You sound sincere and make a valid point. But your point is subjective and cannot and will not speak for all of Freemasonary. One problem is the hardships online forums present.

Alot of the knowledge taught maybe good and all but there's no denying that Freemasonry is a negative fraternity that is heavily involved in the global conspiracy becuase just look at how many politicians and people in the REAL seats of power are or were Masons.... 16 presidents of the USA, too.

This isent true for the WHOLE of Masonry but it is for the 33rd Degree Scottish Rite and maybe a couple of degrees lower too.

Hey and the reason no one here can trust what a Mason says about Freemasonry is becuase every Mason is bound by blood oath to keep shut about the meat of it all. I see you are trying to trick us all into thinking you can disclose what you wish about Freemasonry by disclosing the petty and insignificant details of Freemasonry and thus, giving the impression that you can disclose whatever you want... nice trick but it dosent fool me

'To Always Conceal and Never Reveal The Secrets of a Freemason'


- Masonic Blood Oath.

"You must conceal all crimes of your brother Masons...and should you be summoned as a witness against a brother Mason be always sure to shield him...It may be perjury to do this, it is true, but you're keeping your obligations"


- Ronayne, Handbook of Masonry, page 183.

"Masonry ought forever to be abolished. It is wrong - essentially wrong - a seed of evil, which can never produce any good"

- President John Quincy Adams, Letters on Freemasonry.

[edit on 19/3/2005 by Novusordo]

Well, this thread started out well. I agree, this forum is in need of revamping.
More to follow.

Originally posted by mrwupy
Hey, I got my two sponsors and paid my initiation fee and YOUR the ones who told me to reapply in 6 months.

If I want to call you a bunch of fruit loops I will. I didn't reject you, you rejected me.

From what i've learned of the Masons since, I give thanks to my creator that you did.

Hmmm, have you ever stopped to ask yourself WHY you were rejected. We only accept men of the highest caliber, and I can easily identify what kind of caliber you are by your insults.

Originally posted by Novusordo
Alot of the knowledge taught maybe good and all but there's no denying that Freemasonry is a negative fraternity that is heavily involved in the global conspiracy becuase just look at how many politicians and people in the REAL seats of power are or were Masons.... 16 presidents of the USA, too.

Just because powerful men are masons does not mean that masonry is involved in any kind of conspiracy. You already denied to provide me proof for your other claims, don't start spewing out things you read in another website because IT HAS ALREADY BEEN SHOWN THAT YOU CANNOT BACK UP YOUR OWN CLAIMS.

Hey and the reason no one here can trust what a Mason says about Freemasonry is becuase every Mason is bound by blood oath to keep shut about the meat of it all.

Like I've told you before, the only things we cannot talk about are the details of our rituals (these are the meat of masonry, as you put it), which teach us morals and life lessons, and our modes of recognition, such as our handshakes and passwords. Even so, those things are widely available in thousands of books and websites, so I don't really consider it a secret.

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
Even though the anti-Masons and trolls spew their nonsense here on ATS, you never know how many lurkers and posters learn the truth about the good of Masonry. I am one of those who formerly distrusted Masonry. I had just read on of Icke's books, you see. (although I do not think Icke is wrong in everything he prints)
The Masons here showed me that there is no evil agenda in Masonry.

I am glad that the truth is, at least, getting out to those WHO MATTER. Thank God that our fraternity does not accept those that are too ignorant to see the truth, even when it's right in front of their face.


[edit on 19-3-2005 by sebatwerk]

I'm not a Mason.(Hopefully I will be reletively soon) I hold nothing against Masons. I also would believe something that much more if it were a Mason who said it. I first became interested in Freemasonry by reading the "debates" between the Masons and the anti Masons. After being here and reading the posts made by the Masons at this board, I knew that I wanted to join the fraternity.

sebatwerk, hopefully in a few years I shall be able to call you brother. Keep fighting the good fight!

I'm not going to standby while Masonry claims to uphold certain morals worldwide, and there are so-called bad apples, who are supposed to IN NO WAY reflect on the rest.

Well, then, how can you have claimed to investigated their character?

How can you claim to have made these men better?

And we can only accuse them AFTER they are found guilty? I am sorry, but that prevents nothing. Look at Ilia Pavlov, 33 degree Freemason.

Originally posted by akilles
I'm not going to standby while Masonry claims to uphold certain morals worldwide, and there are so-called bad apples, who are supposed to IN NO WAY reflect on the rest.

What are you going to do? Keep making baseless accusations that you can't prove?

LoL. That's all they ever do. Most of them just go to freemasonrywatch.com and get their one or two lined quotes to use as their "proof".

Gee whiz really, I guess actually being abducted and brainwashed by these fruitloops counts for nothing eh?
Just like my medical report from Guys Hospital Toxicology lab?
Anyway we get this retarded tub thumping at least once a month from whichever new Acolyte is doing all the posts for the "Beautiful Bretheren" to make sure nothing to do with conspiracy theories gets actually discussed - I mean be serious, this is supposedly a "nut-bar/crank/conspiracy" forum.
Why are the vast majority of the posters in this forum Freemasons repeatedly denying that there are ANY global conspiracies going on in the world?

Answer because they DO have something to hide, and a lot of things at that.

As far as proof - how many more books and statements from ex-Masons is it going to take?

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Gee whiz really, I guess actually being abducted and brainwashed by these fruitloops counts for nothing eh?
Just like my medical report from Guys Hospital Toxicology lab?

Dude, are you crazy or what!?!? Yeah masons abducted you and drugged you, just like they blew up your toilet, right? I don't believe that you have EVER knowingly met a mason in real life.

Anyway we get this retarded tub thumping at least once a month from whichever new Acolyte is doing all the posts for the "Beautiful Bretheren" to make sure nothing to do with conspiracy theories gets actually discussed - I mean be serious, this is supposedly a "nut-bar/crank/conspiracy" forum.

Actually the purpose of this forum is to DENY IGNORANCE, and that's what we are doing.

Why are the vast majority of the posters in this forum Freemasons repeatedly denying that there are ANY global conspiracies going on in the world?

Because you guys have NEVER provided conclusive evidence to make us believe otherwise. Masons are intelligent people, and unlike you, don't blindly believe whatever fantasy someone spews out just because they wrote a book and have a website.

Answer because they DO have something to hide, and a lot of things at that.

Sure buddy. Like the fact that we blow up our enemie's toilets?!?

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by akilles
I'm not going to standby while Masonry claims to uphold certain morals worldwide, and there are so-called bad apples, who are supposed to IN NO WAY reflect on the rest.

What are you going to do? Keep making baseless accusations that you can't prove?

sebatwerk, it's the freemasons that need to prove 'us' wrong. It's your fraternity. If you found out that freemasons were a front for a satanic group that planned on enslaving the human race, wouldn't you want to find out before it's too late? What most freemasons don't know is that they are the breeding ground for such people. Because of your oath of secrecy the lower levels do not know what goes on in the upper levels. Am I correct? So is it possible that you don't know what your getting into?

Now don't get me wrong, I believe most of the 33 levels of freemasons are basically good people, which believe freemasons are doing good for man kind through their charitable ways. The problem I have, is that it goes beyond 33 degrees and the masons are not the only group being deceived.

You don't know whats beyond the 33rd degree, infact I'm sure you believe that is the highest rank. Now since the freemason are suppose to be chosen for their intelligence, intellect, money and influence in the community. How can they not see the illuminatis control on them and other organizations? What good is a genius, if he doesn't use his brain?

I don't mean to get off topic, but seeing as how I am still fairly new to the whole Mason, anti Mason war; why is it that they think Masons are evil again? In a nutshell of course.

sebatwerk
You're defending an indefensible position. The reasons people don't like the masons range from the mundane to the ridiculous, but they all center around one aspect of the organization; the secrecy.

If you admit openly to perjury, obfuscation of the truth from jurys and judges, then you are no better than an organized crime syndicate, protecting its members.

You ask us to trust you? Why should we? Why should we trust an organization that protects its members from our laws, so that it can continue to indoctrinate people by making them strip naked and ride a farm animal?

You ride that goat all the way to hell man, ride, ride, ride.

[edit on 20-3-2005 by WyrdeOne]

The truth about Freemasonry is that Freemasons are not in control of the World and never will be. Freemasons are people who believe in a Deity who created the Universe. They also subscribe to a high level of public morality and the welfare of society. Freemasons give a lot of money to non Freemasonic Charities.

Freemasons are not allowed to debate politics in their capacity as Freemasons. They are told to uphold the Law. If they break the Criminal Law they will be punished by the Masonic bodies who run Freemasonry. The ultimate penalty being expulsion from all the orders of Freemasonry.

Freemasons do not destroy toilets or drug people in order for them to join Freemasonry. If any person has proof against any Freemason he should write to The Grand Lodge which operates in their country or in the case of USA and Canada their state.

Bro Gerard