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Where did we go wrong?

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posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 04:00 PM
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How is it in this day and age of enlightenment are we arguing over many things we do? Has the partisanship finally crossed over from the politicians to the common man? What is this going to lead to other than an out and out war? Are you prepared for that? Sadly, most people do not realizing they are tearing the fabric of America apart. With all of the mindless bickering, you all are making it easier to destroy this country. (Myself included...)

But why? Why must we argue over such petty things or assert such poor thoughts...like:

Bush is making the sign of the DEVIL!!!

or

Liberals continue to push the homosexual agenda like letting those filthy, sinful, fags marry...they are destroying the meaning of my marriage!

or

The Libertarians are the true American party...

or

We need to jack up the minimum wage

or

Bush is evil and stole all of the elections

or

The Democrat/Republican/Libertarian/Green party cares more for you then the Democrat/Republican/Libertarian/Green party

or the most insulting one of all...

America is the most evil country in the world.

Most of these listed are unfounded, ill-conceived, or outright lies. But yet, we fall for it. We get baited into these arguments like a fish gets baited on a hook. And it has gone well beyond being intentionally dishonest. A lot of what goes on here is outright propaganda and I am tired of seeing it.

Why are many of you doing this? Are you that caught up in your own bias that rational thought and logic leaves the door when you turn on computer/open your eyes? I admit that I have my own leanings, but it is nothing compared to what many of you have done in the past.

What I do not get is how did everything come to this point? Did a Democratic representative come over and burn down your house? Did some Republican murder your baby on an Altar of Satan? Is there any reason so many of you are so vehemently against the other side other than them being on the other side?

Some of the arguments that I have seen in the past not only go well beyond logic but conveys a message that is so insane that some guys in white coats should be at your house by now. What gives?

In my opinion, the problem is the partisan politics. It is ok to agree with policies and ideals. But to oppose things that are pure common sense is ignorance...and you have failed the goal of ATS.




posted on Mar, 20 2005 @ 01:51 AM
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I agree with you, OXmanK. I've made a post similar to this one as well. I mean, it's almost as if it's just a big game to them! How is it possible that on just about EVERY issue, a huge majority of the Democrats are on one side, and a huge majority of Republicans on the other. How can this be? It's like they want to give us a show, so they've made 'good' and 'evil', and you get to pick which side is which, and which to be on! I don't like political parties very much. I mean, I understand that people who share beliefs want to be able to be in a group and get things done more efficiently, but I think the reverse has happened as well. People are forming opinions BASED on what the rest of their political party agrees! I call myself a republican, because that's where my beliefs are. If the republicans did something I didn't like, I'd speak out against it just like I do when the Democrats do something I don't like. I've actually had an idea for a thread that I think might be constructive (And kinda funny!). We should have liberals on this board say one good thing about conservatives, and conservatives one good thing about liberals. For those in between, do something similar.(Not trying to dis-regard you either). This goes for Bush-supporters, and Anti-Bush people as well. It's nearly impossible that you can be FOR every-single decision Bush has made, or AGAINST every decision he's made. First person to say something negative loses
.(I'm sounding like a kindergarden teacher here
)

I'll start (If anyone wants to play along).

I was rooting for Bush in election '04 (Wasn't old enough to vote). That means I was against Kerry. Regardless of speculation, Kerry did a very honorable thing by serving in Vietnam. He's also very smart, and a great debator.

[edit on 20-3-2005 by Herman]



posted on Mar, 20 2005 @ 02:06 AM
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perhaps in this age of enlightenment some people got left behind, or were asleep while it was happening. for the most part folk just chug down the mainstream and dont ask any questions, this is what i consider to be the major problem. skimming through a political magazine i notice all the diatribe consistant with certain personas online, that would be the stark generalization and polerization of politcal affiliats. im a genuis by no means, but at least am aware enough not to fall into the trap of democratically laced guise that is americas mainstream media.

cheers and good day!



posted on Mar, 20 2005 @ 02:36 AM
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Originally posted by Herman
I agree with you, OXmanK. I've made a post similar to this one as well. I mean, it's almost as if it's just a big game to them! How is it possible that on just about EVERY issue, a huge majority of the Democrats are on one side, and a huge majority of Republicans on the other. How can this be? It's like they want to give us a show, so they've made 'good' and 'evil', and you get to pick which side is which, and which to be on!


I refer you to The Continuing Adventures of Pickle Girl and Rapture Boy in the Falsely Fanatical Land of Mainstream Media!

It's a long read, but one of my favorite authors.



posted on Mar, 20 2005 @ 04:56 AM
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Well, one of the few things that are admirable in Bush can be construed as a backhanded insult. I the trait that he goes through with almost everything he believes. It is truly admirable to see someone stand up and not be flimsy. (Even if you agree or disagree with his policies...)

No, the point of this is not just the board. Lately, people have been doing things that defy logic. They present arguments that skirt the true issue and try to pull the curtain back to close just so they can stay true to their side. They will say things like, "The ends justify the means," while stuff is happening that will not lead to ends being justified...just more control and illusions of being free.

Case in point:

The Schiavo case is the perfect example about this. Whether you believe or not this woman should die is not the important part about this issue. You can argue til you are blue in the face about "this poor woman" or "this poor woman", if you catch my drift...but the major point in it is being missed. The big issue is, "Should the government be able to suspend RIGHTS to push an agenda?" But so far, I have yet to hear anybody truly shout about this.



posted on Mar, 20 2005 @ 10:28 AM
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Originally posted by OXmanK
Well, one of the few things that are admirable in Bush can be construed as a backhanded insult. I the trait that he goes through with almost everything he believes. It is truly admirable to see someone stand up and not be flimsy. (Even if you agree or disagree with his policies...)


He's being just as opportunistic with this as when he signed the Texas bill into law that allowed Hostpitals to Pull Life Support Against Family Wishes When Patients Can't Pay!

There's no "sanctity of life" sentiment behind a hypocrite like that. It's opportunity.



No, the point of this is not just the board. Lately, people have been doing things that defy logic. They present arguments that skirt the true issue and try to pull the curtain back to close just so they can stay true to their side. They will say things like, "The ends justify the means," while stuff is happening that will not lead to ends being justified...just more control and illusions of being free.


Exactly.



Case in point:

The Schiavo case is the perfect example about this. Whether you believe or not this woman should die is not the important part about this issue. You can argue til you are blue in the face about "this poor woman" or "this poor woman", if you catch my drift...but the major point in it is being missed. The big issue is, "Should the government be able to suspend RIGHTS to push an agenda?" But so far, I have yet to hear anybody truly shout about this.


I am. The Save Terri contingent is a squeaky wheel of no more than 25% wedged together by constant media coverage. That Congress and the President should step in to "review" and possibly overturn consistent court rulings for spousal right's over the past 15 years is a watershed travesty.



posted on Mar, 20 2005 @ 01:40 PM
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People do not get involved. that is the bottom line. We want everything neat and tidy. Wars with no dead, we dont want to see blood on our television screens, we dont want to see the dead children, the missing limbs our soldiers are coming home with.
We are being managed, not led. When we are fed up with being managed, and demand our rights back from the government that usurped them, then we begin on the road back to what the Constitution intended.



posted on Mar, 20 2005 @ 04:05 PM
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He's being just as opportunistic with this as when he signed the Texas bill into law that allowed Hostpitals to Pull Life Support Against Family Wishes When Patients Can't Pay!

There's no "sanctity of life" sentiment behind a hypocrite like that. It's opportunity.


Herman, it didn't last long...I guess RANT lost...



posted on Mar, 20 2005 @ 10:53 PM
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Originally posted by OXmanK

Herman, it didn't last long...I guess RANT lost...


Haha, that's funny! I was just about to post that exact same sentence this morning. Actually, I thought I did...but it's not there. Yes RANT, you lose


[edit on 20-3-2005 by Herman]



posted on Mar, 20 2005 @ 11:52 PM
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Is it partisan to disagree with the Democrats and the Republicans? It looks to me like the same party on many of the really important issues so perhaps I am a partisan for a real choice. I strongly disagree with both parties in many cases and they both seem to be hypocritical when it suits them. Neither party seems to have an overarching ideology that they won't sell out for chips and a soda.

What I object to is when people toss bait out and when they are challenged to prove their assertions or are presented with evidence to the contrary simply belittle the challenger.

After that the offender dismisses the other person’s viewpoint out of hand and provides no reason or evidence to the contrary. That sort of thing does nothing to serve the purpose of learning or constructive discussion. Bait, belittle, dismiss, is not a constructive dialogue format and fails to persuade. I will change my position of presented with cogent logical arguement backed by facts. I wonder how many others can say the same?

I don’t mind if after an informative exchange someone chooses to disagree but if they do so without defending their position or showing the other person how they could be wrong the exchange has no real value.

I’ll say something good about Bush as I oppose his policies more than the Dems. There was a tragic incident early on in his first term where a young woman who was just about to graduate from medical school was pushed in front of a train and killed by a homeless man that was severely mentally ill.

The perpetrator had been through the many programs available to such dangerous and unfortunate people and exhausted his ability to be institutionalized at government expense. Bush pushed through a bill to provide funding to treat and house indigent dangerously mentally ill people, for everybody’s welfare. For this I applaud him.



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