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10 Things to Know about U.S. Policy in the Middle East

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posted on Mar, 28 2005 @ 12:28 PM
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conclusion - "welcome to the new Israel, known also as America"




posted on Mar, 28 2005 @ 12:58 PM
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U.S. support for Israel occupation forces has created enormous resentment throughout the Middle East.


The fact that their countrymen keep strapping on bombs and blowing up civilian citizens hasn't exactly put them on our Christmas card list either....




The United States has not been a fair mediator in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.


Last I checked, Isreal was willing to acede to about 90% of what the PLO wanted at Camp David...Arafat said "no thanks". You call THAT fair?




The United States has played a major role in the militarization of the region.


Talk to France, Germany, and Russia too friend...we hardly have the monopoly on that gig...



The U.S. maintains an ongoing military presence in the Middle East.


Gee, wonder why...??? Happen to catch those planes flying into a building a few years back? Think THAT might have something to do with it?




There has been an enormous humanitarian toll resulting from U.S. policy toward Iraq.


That's what happens when UNICEF packages are hoarded by the rulers, instead of given to the needy. It's much more preferable for the rulers to be able to buy gold plated AK-47s. Assign the blame where it's due....



The United States has been inconsistent in its enforcement of international law and UN Security Council resolutions.


Granted. But who hasn't? Saddam was far more than "inconsistent" in his abiding by them...




The United States has supported autocratic regimes in the Middle East.


True, but we try to avoid the ones who want to kill us, hehe... Again though, we hardly have a monopoly on that one...



U.S. policy has contributed to the rise of radical Islamic governments and movements.


Everyone wants to be a martyr. If it wasn't the US, they'd find some other "cause" to die for. Such militants seem more anxious to fight than to actually DO something that might SOLVE the problems they complain about. Such as building infrastructure, rather than terrorism.



The U.S. promotion of a neo-liberal economic model in the Middle East has not benefitted most people of the region.


Those who have benefitted would beg to differ I'd wager. Besides, I don't know too many western nations with universal health care, such as many such countries enjoy, due to their oil exports (of which, without us as customers, would certainly mean less revenue)



The U.S. response to Middle Eastern terrorism has thus far been counter-productive.


No argument there. Tip-toeing around this because of politics is exactly what gave us Vietnam, but fools (such as this administration) are bound to repeat history. The world already despises the US, so I'm a little perplexed at the hesitance to take more decisive military actions (mostly in the initial phases of the war). Not to mention, the onus would seem to be on more intelligence personnel and assassinating known terrorist leaders and higher ups, versus mass military actions in urban areas.



posted on Mar, 28 2005 @ 10:04 PM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
U.S. support for Israel occupation forces has created enormous resentment throughout the Middle East.
The fact that their countrymen keep strapping on bombs and blowing up civilian citizens hasn't exactly put them on our Christmas card list either...


What is actually causing them to have such a resentment against the US and Israel?



Originally posted by Gazrok
The United States has not been a fair mediator in the Israeli-Palastinian conflict
Last I checked, Israel was willing to accede to about 90% of what the PLO wanted at Camp David...Arafat said "no thanks". You call THAT fair?



Too little, too late – and too little in the big scheme of things… Israel is the worlds 5th biggest military power… The only reason this is possible is because of the US funding, US training and US weaponry that is sent to Israel on a regular basis…



Originally posted by Gazrok
The U.S. maintains an ongoing military presence in the Middle East.
Gee, wonder why...??? Happen to catch those planes flying into a building a few years back? Think THAT might have something to do with it?


Actually I don’t think it did, in fact I think it had very little to do with it… Plus how is going to war with a country going to stop international “terrorists”? Isn’t it merely going to breed a new generation of “terrorists” who witnessed the fathers die, or whos older friends never came back from fighting…



Originally posted by Gazrok
There has been an enormous humanitarian toll resulting from U.S. policy toward Iraq.
That's what happens when UNICEF packages are hoarded by the rulers, instead of given to the needy. It's much more preferable for the rulers to be able to buy gold plated AK-47s. Assign the blame where it's due....


Why is there a need for aid to be sent there? If they weren’t at war, and were able to build their country without the constant risk of war – I’m sure that money WOULD be going to food instead of AK’s… But while ever there is a risk of war – of course money is going to go on war rather than food…



Originally posted by Gazrok
The United States has been inconsistent in its enforcement of international law and UN Security Council resolutions.
Granted. But who hasn't? Saddam was far more than "inconsistent" in his abiding by them...



At least Saddam was “inconsistent” in his abiding of International Law, the US seems to be consistent in its breaking of International Law…



Originally posted by Gazrok
The United States has supported autocratic regimes in the Middle East.
True, but we try to avoid the ones who want to kill us, hehe...


But it is okay to support an autocratic regime that kills other countries people?



Originally posted by Gazrok
U.S. policy has contributed to the rise of radical Islamic governments and movements.
Everyone wants to be a martyr. If it wasn't the US, they'd find some other "cause" to die for. Such militants seem more anxious to fight than to actually DO something that might SOLVE the problems they complain about. Such as building infrastructure, rather than terrorism.


I don’t believe that was the point, the point was that since the US has taken an aggressive position on Islamic Fundamentalists, the amount of such fundamentalists has grown… Why do you think that is?



Originally posted by Gazrok
The U.S. promotion of a neo-liberal economic model in the Middle East has not benefited most people of the region.
Those who have benefited would beg to differ I'd wager. Besides, I don't know too many western nations with universal health care, such as many such countries enjoy, due to their oil exports (of which, without us as customers, would certainly mean less revenue)


Who are those that have benefited? The rich and wealthy Iraqi upper class – and the rich and wealthy American upper class… No one else seemed to have benefited from such a system…



Originally posted by Gazrok
The U.S. response to Middle Eastern terrorism has thus far been counter-productive.
No argument there


I’m glad we agree…



posted on Mar, 29 2005 @ 12:18 AM
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yeah. what Mr. ghost said is definitely what the ground reality is? But when a country becomes economically and millitarily powerful you can not expect them to sit idle. In economics we can say - it's a search for the market. The world can be sum up with one word- Business.
And also since Isreal is playing as a regional cop for the U.S, their policy isn't going to change in the near future.
It's just a foreign policy adopted by the US to serves it's national interest and curbing the emergence of other nation as a global player.



posted on Mar, 29 2005 @ 03:12 AM
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To put thing is balance let me put in my two cents worth:
1-U.S. support for Israel occupation forces has created enormous resentment throughout the Middle East: Just because Arab/Muslims regeims have a virulent prejudice and hatred of Israel does not make an arguement to change foreign policy. Nazi Germany resented the Jews as well should the US have taken that into consideration? Fact is that the Arab/Muslim countries in the middle east are overwhelmingly dictatoral regeims with right wing agendas of imposing Muslim/Arab rule in the Middle-east. That is by definition Facist regeims. Should the US be understanding of facists and adjust foreign policies accordingly?
2-The United States has not been a fair mediator in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The UN and Europe has been fair mediators? Arab countries support Hamas, Jihad, Hizbullah, PLO and all its subordinate organizations and no condemnations or action come out of the UN or Europe to counter these aggressions. Only recently (post 9/11) has Eurrope changed their stances on these issues. Fact is that the US is a fair mediator since the US has cannot be blackmailed by the Arabs with their tool of oil supplies as they do with the Europeans. The Europeans are highly reliant on trade and Arab Oil. They cannot be fair mediators. The US pressures Israel whenever it becomes necessary and provides them support when the world decides to condemn Israel in an unbalanced way. UN condemnations cannot come after Israel acts militarily as a response of Arab agressions. The Arab aggressions are nearly always ignored.
3- The United States has played a major role in the militarization of the region. Oh really? Syria uses American weapons? Egypt (prior to making peace with Israel) used American weapons? Lebanon? Iran? Iraq? Libya? Russia has militarized the middle east just as much as the US and they are continuing to do so to this day.
4- The U.S. maintains an ongoing military presence in the Middle East. as well as Europe and the Far east - What is you point? Europe has military presence all over the world as well.
5- There has been an enormous humanitarian toll resulting from U.S. policy toward Iraq. The reason for the humanitarian toll was because of Sadaams regeim (prior to his downfall) and to insurgents killing civilians indiscriminantly (following Sadaam's downfall). Insurgents are financed, supplied and supported by Syria and Iran - They are directly responsible for the humanitarian toll you describe. You are forgetting that Sadaam regiem has been marked following their invasion of Kuwait. Lay the blame in the correct place. The US can only be blamed for making tactical mistakes strategically they are acting correctly.
6-U.S. policy has contributed to the rise of radical Islamic governments and movements. Radical Islamic gov'ts and movements have been around long before Israel and long before the USs middle east policies. What do you call the Ottoman empire? It was only in 1924 that the caliphate was destroyed. This was by the Europeans not the Americans. Speak to fundamentalist Muslims and see what their desire is. To revert to the Caliphate. In the 1830s the Egyptians conquered Palestine and the Jews in Palestine were persecuted for being part of a minority religion. Jews from Mashhad Iran at the same time were forced to convert, killed or leave the city. This type of extremism was around for centuries. Radical Islamic ambitions have been around before the creation of the US.
7-The United States has supported autocratic regimes in the Middle East. Well just for your information Israel is the coutry most supported by the US and they are fully democratic. Besides Israel every coutry is autocratic whether supported by the US or not.
8-The U.S. response to Middle Eastern terrorism has thus far been counter-productive.
In Iraq sadaam brutal regeim has been brought to an end the Taliban regeim as well has been brought down. Attacks on US soil has decreased -Finally, assessment of the war on terror cannot be measured in the short term but in the long term. Bush can do more to fight terrorism but he has done much more than Clinton who pretty much sat on his bum and did nothing to counter known terrorist threats.



posted on Mar, 29 2005 @ 03:26 AM
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Well well well...looks like the old gang is back for another go at it.

I got three cents to put in.



Should the US be understanding of facists and adjust foreign policies accordingly?


I think the US is Facist too, of course they will adjust their policies...to keep in alliance with other facist regimes but fool the people at home with things like human rights reports (example China)


Arab countries support Hamas, Jihad, Hizbullah, PLO and all its subordinate organizations and no condemnations or action come out of the UN or Europe to counter these aggressions.


That's a lie. You always say everyone hates Jews...it's just not true. It's a vicitmization mentality. Go around it and find a real arguement.


UN condemnations cannot come after Israel acts militarily as a response of Arab agressions. The Arab aggressions are nearly always ignored.


Once again I disagree, can you give us some evidence to back up your claim that the world Ignores Arab's faults and only points out Israels?




3- The United States has played a major role in the militarization of the region. Oh really?



Don't play stupid. The US has given Israel weapons and possible nuclear technology to the point that Israel is the smallest yet strongest nation in the region...I know you'll smile to yourself when you read these words and say "I know".



posted on Mar, 29 2005 @ 04:23 AM
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A bit off-thread, but....

What are the israelis paying for their gas to the cars, really?



posted on Mar, 29 2005 @ 05:47 AM
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Originally posted by Partyof1

There's a cause and effect for everything.


It all comes down to God's fault for creating Adam and Eve doesnt it?



posted on Mar, 29 2005 @ 09:24 AM
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Originally posted by 00PS
Well well well...looks like the old gang is back for another go at it.

I got three cents to put in.



Should the US be understanding of facists and adjust foreign policies accordingly?


I think the US is Facist too, of course they will adjust their policies...to keep in alliance with other facist regimes but fool the people at home with things like human rights reports (example China)


Arab countries support Hamas, Jihad, Hizbullah, PLO and all its subordinate organizations and no condemnations or action come out of the UN or Europe to counter these aggressions.


That's a lie. You always say everyone hates Jews...it's just not true. It's a vicitmization mentality. Go around it and find a real arguement.


UN condemnations cannot come after Israel acts militarily as a response of Arab agressions. The Arab aggressions are nearly always ignored.


Once again I disagree, can you give us some evidence to back up your claim that the world Ignores Arab's faults and only points out Israels?




3- The United States has played a major role in the militarization of the region. Oh really?



Don't play stupid. The US has given Israel weapons and possible nuclear technology to the point that Israel is the smallest yet strongest nation in the region...I know you'll smile to yourself when you read these words and say "I know".


yo OOPs its not a lie, Arab countries have supported the Palestinian organizations with intent to kill, yeah UN and European nations have condemned violence between Israelis and Palestinians but they aint doing anithing about it.



posted on Mar, 29 2005 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by 00PS
Well well well...looks like the old gang is back for another go at it.

Damn straight and I'll bet you three cents that I can rebut you nicely.


I got three cents to put in.

Good I see you're up for the wager.


I think the US is Facist too, of course they will adjust their policies...to keep in alliance with other facist regimes but fool the people at home with things like human rights reports (example China)

My chinese friend! You need to polish up on your terminology of various dirty words. Let me assist: Merriam-Webster ( www.m-w.com... )



Main Entry: fas·cism
Pronunciation: 'fa-"shi-z&m also 'fa-"si-
Function: noun
Etymology: Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces
1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control

or dictionary.reference.com...


fas·cism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fshzm)
n.
often Fascism
A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
Oppressive, dictatorial control.


What do these definitions have in common - lets have a glance shall we???
It seems that a dictator is required (autocracy), social and economic controls, racism, violent suppression of opposition and nationalism.

Well that rules out the US and Israel since they both are not autocratic or dictatoral, both the US and Israel has a heterogenous population where their citizens regardless of race have all their freedoms:
Social and economic controls - Ummmmm - like maybe communist countries? US has a relatively free market - so does Israel.
Racism - The US had 2 consecutive Black secretaries of state.
Israel has citizens of practically every race (Blacks, whites, indians, orientals, arabs, Muslims, Christians, Jews, Druze) - You may argue -'what about the Palestinians????!!!!! They are not Israeli citizens - But Arab Israelis are and they have all the rights of the Jewish citizens.
violent suppression of opposition - I don't see the Republicans killing off Democrats or vice versa. In Israel, I do not see Likud killing off Labor or Labor killing off Likud (although the Altalena affair did have its share of Labor predecessor killing Likud predecessor). What about Nationalism - I think every country has this!

OK so from what we learned above what country could be labelled FASCIST???

US - NO, Israel - NO, Syria? YES, Sadaam era Iraq? YES, IRAN? YES Taliban era Afganistan - YES, EGYPT? YES.


Arab countries support Hamas, Jihad, Hizbullah, PLO and all its subordinate organizations and no condemnations or action come out of the UN or Europe to counter these aggressions.


That's a lie. You always say everyone hates Jews...it's just not true. It's a vicitmization mentality. Go around it and find a real arguement.


Muslim countries do not support terrorists? news.bbc.co.uk...
www.iranianvoice.org...
But those sweet Persians???
Would you deny the fact that Saudi Arabia financially supports HAMAS and that Syria supports Hezbullah as well as PFLP?
How about those objective media sources?
www.camera.org...
www.camera.org...
and the UN - of course!

bama.ua.edu...

nice quote from there


The number of resolutions and their sharp tone reflected, in large part, the powerful influence of the alliance between the Arab world and the Soviet bloc--a position so extreme that the General Assembly voted in 1979 to condemn the historic peace between Egypt and Israel.

Israel was even condemned for making peace !!!!




3- The United States has played a major role in the militarization of the region. Oh really?

Don't play stupid. The US has given Israel weapons and possible nuclear technology to the point that Israel is the smallest yet strongest nation in the region

1- Israel nuclear program was with the help of the French not the Americans.
2- Israel buys weapons from the US . . . and the Germans. . . and the French . . . and the Swiss . . . and well just about everyone. SO what is your point? The Russians are providing the Iranians with everything to go nuclear, The Russians are providing Syrians with offensive missles. Where did the Iraqis get their SCUDs?



...I know you'll smile to yourself when you read these words and say "I know".

Well if Israel was not strong I'd probably be DEAD.



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