Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
the main problem i have with this is that
1. scientists don't know enough about the brain to say that she has no recognition or cognition...
so to me that is murder... and the husband is guilty of it...

Hi,
Sorry that I couldn't quote all of your post, it makes a lot of sense.

First off, how many of you have watched a person die of starvation? I have.

Our grandmother really was in a coma-type situation and the family opted to let her die with morphine. She was grandmother by marriage. But guess what, that morphine doesn't kill the pain in this situation. Even though she was in a bad shape from a surgery gone bad, wound opening up and the doctor royally messed her up (later was fired), helping her die in this manner was horrible.

I, and along with other family members, just watched her die. To this day, I'll never forget it, and I would never opt for this ever again.

First, after a day or two, she started having small seizures. Even though she was out of it, so to speak, she was in pain. Then some more morphine, still more seizures until near the end of it all, it was horrible seizures, just terrible ones with her shaking all over, lips totally dry, constanly licking her poor lips and even though we put the balm on them, they were still bone dry. Didn't matter the amount of morphine, ever, she was in horrible pain and YOU COULD TELL! They constantly gave her morphine, but it was no help. Still screaming in agony.

She would scream, etc., then have grand-mal seizures. We each took a night and stayed with her. I spent one night and it about killed me to watch her go like this. I wanted to just give her some water because she constantly licked her lips. You could tell it was agony for her. The last seizure that she had, the family wasn't there, but she had blood dripping out of her nose. I suppose her blood vessels in her brain ruptured.

Strange thing is, the doctor was all for it, said that it was the humane thing to do and wasn't painful. And I'll never forget it, and say it's not the humane thing to do..........ever! It's totally horrible.

Also, think about this, this girl has a chance to improve. I have an a first cousin that has died several times now in various surgeries. It has slowed her brain. The last time they thought she wouldn't make it, but guess what, her husband proved them wrong. He took total care of her, helping her exercise slowly back to health, and now she's doing fine. At first and for a long time, she couldn't breathe very good and was slow. Sometimes her brain is a little slow, but altogether, she's doing well. She now walks with her husband about two miles per day.

Tiza

One more thing that I want to add is this, it's a total shame in this country with so many on the husband's side of this. He's a jerk, a total jerk! His whole thing is only about himself. He shows the selfishness that is in lots of Americans right now. It's all about him.

Number one, whenever two people are married, they are supposed to stay with each other and care for each other in health and sickness. Well, it's obvious that he doesn't think very much of the covenant of marriage and the marriage covenant is a serious covenant agreement, between the people who are married and between Yahweh.

You know what happens, what goes around comes around. We reap what we sow. So I hope that this doesn't come back on him in a big way and he gets to see what it's like to be seriously ill and nobody's there for him.

Tiza

why don't they deny her air and "allow" her to die in five minutes, instead of what could take five WEEKS as well as reduce her to a macabre, living skeleton?

i am disturbed by the prospect of a 70-80 pound terri schiavo, moaning and writhing in her bed being ignored by these same SCUM OF THE EARTH who pulled out the feed tube.....as they pretend it's not an aware human being suffering a slow death. three points to ponder:

we would not be considered humane if terri were a dog in the same condition, if we starved her to death

terri, who we are told is unaware of pain, had to have anasthesia when getting dental work done not long ago

terri, if she somehow gained full consciousness and blurted out that she wanted to die and was going to starve herself, would be force fed and put on a suicide watch to keep her alive

maybe there is something about seeing people starve that we have a fascination with....hence, the millions of starving people worldwide that we simply shrug off as a quirk of fate.






[edit on 18-3-2005 by victor was right]

She breathes on her own. You mean the pillow?


Thats brutal too.

"terri, if she somehow gained full consciousness and blurted out that she wanted to die and was going to starve herself, would be force fed and put on a suicide watch to keep her alive "

You know, thats ironic, but true.

[edit on 18-3-2005 by dgtempe]

I found this Congress intervention troubling.

Firstly, it seems to directly interfere in a judicial matter, this is very wrong.

Secondly, Haven't opinion polls shown that most Americans support the Husband on this issue? Why is it that a minority of extreme-religious groups are allowed to hold congress in hostage?

Originally posted by rapier28
I found this Congress intervention troubling.

Firstly, it seems to directly interfere in a judicial matter, this is very wrong.

Secondly, Haven't opinion polls shown that most Americans support the Husband on this issue? Why is it that a minority of extreme-religious groups are allowed to hold congress in hostage?

The simple answer, assuming politics works the way we were brought up to believe, is because those people who get upset write exponentially more letters than those people who make it their business to mind their own business.

dgtempe
You made an excellent point. A living will is legal, but suicide is not.

Can I get a hypocrisy judgement on that? What's that, about a 5.6 on a 10 point scale?

Just wanted to add a late breaking item. This is highly suspect but as worthy of discussion as the other points until its debunked. Several witnesses said that when Terri's feeding tube was removed she became hysterical and according to them tried to say she didn't want to die. Now how they know thats what she was trying to say I don't know. However, if the reaction itself is true it means that a. she is aware of her surroundings enough to realize what was going on, or b. she can feel stimulus and was in pain when the tube was removed and will therefore feel pain as she slowly dies of starvation. Just something to think about.

YES ... I saw that on TV too. I have posted and reposted information
about a woman who was in a worse state than Terri and whom the
courts tried to starve. That woman heard, understood and felt
EVERYTHING. EVERYTHING!! Thankfully, the woman was saved and
given the proper medical care and she's fine now.

Terri responds to voices, responds to her mother, responded
to the priest (until her husband refused to allow any more
visits by him). She isn't just laying there people ... she is
RESPONSIVE!! She isn't brain dead folks ... not at all!!

The woman on tv said that when she went to visit Terri and she
talked to her about everyone outside praying for her to live ...
she said to her 'Terri tell them you want to live' ... Terri responded
with a LOUD yell and she moved her arms around.

My God .. give this woman back her food, give her the brain scan
that has been denied her by her 'husband', give her medical care that
has been denied her by her husband, give her physical therapy that
has been denied her by her husband.

Do you see the pattern ... BY HER HUSBAND. She was an abused
wife who wanted a divorce. She 'collapsed' under mysterious
conditions. He has fought to kill her off (to keep her quiet??).
This is a conspiracy board ... look at the conspiracy here folks ...
it's screaming at everyone. Give this woman a chance. She knows
what's going on and she doesn't want him to get away with it. (IMHO)

While I do support the "Right to Die", in this case Terri didn't put it in writing and as you said she IS aware. I saw the video and my jaw dropped. She may not be able to be normal again but starving her to death is just not humane ...

Personally if I was in her situation I would want to die, but not that way. Give me an overdose of Morphine or something like that, starving to death has to be one of the most horrible ways to die especially if you're aware during the whole thing. It's not like she is in a coma or anything and treatments could become available, even though its not that likely. This tug of war really has to stop, but it wont and she will continue to be a pawn in this "game" .....

FLYERS FAN

It sounds like you may have heard that woman on Coast to coast? I did too. If you also listened last night, George gave an account of Terrys reaction when they told her they were taking her feeding tube away. The account was that when they told her, Terry "shieked" and "moaned" and said "Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww".

Make of that what you will. Sad.

This is a sad case. The Supreme Court has refused to intervene, and unless the U.S. Attorney acts on the Congressional subpoenas or Congress passes a law soon, she will die a horrible death. This is another step down the road of devaluing human life, and towards eugenics and court ordered euthanasia for undesirables. If I was a disabled person I'd be very worried.

This is a topic that is so horrifying that I have tried to stay away from it BUT walking away from this is just leaving it to others to decide. I have a few questions.

1) If this were your mother, sister, wife, daughter would you allow someone to starve her to death?
2) If her husband was so anxious to do the right thing wouldn't he be pleading for a Kervorkian type of solution- which does not include starving the terminally ill to death by the way?
3) As he is anxious to leave this behind him why not just walk away? He has a "wife" already and children. Forget terry exists and move on, the woman he is with obviously wouldn't mind she is already shacked up with him.; and
4) If we deprive an animal of food and water because we no longer wanted it would that be ok?

In fact I believe that every person who feels that terry should be saved should sign a petition and send it to the President. How about that ATS? How about some real action to the wrongs in the world. and yes all those that feel that terry should die by starvation you can add your signature to another petition!!!




[edit on 19-3-2005 by Mynaeris]

shots did you see the video of her on TV? It looked like she was aware, and happy at that moment. Not coherent or anything(you could not understand her no capacity to speak) but she looked aware.