Absolute waste of money

yeah she finished Jan 2005

Paper,

So I have learned.

Cheers

BHR

Originally posted by minimi
We keep the Trident boats so we our not entirely reliant on US nuclear power for deterrence.

- Er, you'll find that without the US giving us the necessary satellite support we are, in fact, entirely reliant on the US for our 'deterrence'. Without this support Trident doesn't fly.
So it is not actually truely 'independant' at all.

It will be interesting to see whether the new Euro-GPS system will be usable and compatible and whether the UK regains through this it's genuinely 'independant nuclear deterrent'.


[edit on 7-4-2005 by sminkeypinkey]

Sminkey,

As far as I was aware the guidance system on the D5 was stellar as opposed to GPS.

Cheers

BHR

Originally posted by BillHicksRules
Sminkey,

As far as I was aware the guidance system on the D5 was stellar as opposed to GPS.

- OK, my bad.
You learn something new every day.

I just saw an article talking about the Trident D5 missile having it's own advanced stellar guidance system and also the option of using GPS.

(Mind you after that code fiasco whether there is anything hidden in the missile coding that add up to a US 'veto' on their independant use would be interesting to find out.)

I don't think the U.S. would purposely try and disable Britain's D5. Of course we would probably be against them using nukes but I don't think there are any "bugs" in the weapons.

After the 'unusable Chinooks to the UK fiasco' why would (or should) anyone automatically choose to believe the US wouldn't do that kind of thing?

(and whether you are or are not "against" the UK using it's supposedly independant deterrent is absolutely contrary to the whole idea of said supposed independance.....

......and if it isn't really independant then there isn't much point in paying the USA the £10 - 12billion they cost or the several hundred million they cost to maintain; is there?

Personally the more I see of US business practise and gov practise I hope the UK doesn't buy US next time - if there is to be a next time.)

[edit on 7-4-2005 by sminkeypinkey]

Because can you name me a another incident where the U.S. has not given any country codes other than the Chinook incident? (The F-35 doesn't count bemuse I am almost 100% sure that in the end the UK will get its codes).

West Point,

One incident is enough.

If you buy a car from the shady dealer across town just to save a few bucks and the dealer leaves out the battery, are you going to buy another car from him or move onto or move onto the reputable dealer at the end of your street?

Cheers

BHR

Hmm,

I would have to say that the BAC TSR.2 is a fine example of the US government screwing over the British Ministry of Defense in all matters. I can't think of a finer example of American Government and Business interests affecting the ability of the British armed forces.

I don't know, I understand the releance on the american technology market, but at present I would like to see the UK developing its aircraft once again, sadly I fear that those days are long gone and that I should expect more of these Euro Joint projects, but at the minute I would rather jump into a joint EU project, where I know I will get what I ask for rather than having to worry about "support" issues with its control systems.

I trully think that the US Government will need to apply pressure on boeing or in the view of the world, the US arms manufactors will have lost all credability. If it was my choice I would drop the JSF and go with either, the Naval Typhoon, French Rafale or the SU30 or SU27, at least we would know what we are getting.

- Philip

[edit on 8-4-2005 by gooseuk]

GooseUK,

Have you seen the TSR2 in the flesh so to speak?

It is one hell of a beast.

There is one at Cosford and if you have never been there it is well worthy of a visit.

Cheers

BHR

Originally posted by BillHicksRules
Sminkey,

As far as I was aware the guidance system on the D5 was stellar as opposed to GPS.

Cheers

BHR

Nice pickup Bill. Is Stellar inertial more accurate than GPS though ?

Rogue,

In all honesty I do not think so but the reason for the use of stellar is that it is unjammable.

I think some assumption was made that GPS could either be jammed or the satellites taken out.

Stars are a lot harder to do that to.

Cheers

BHR

True Bill, the fact that GPS was in its infancy when the MX and D-5 missiles guidance systems were being built probably also contributed.

I also read somewhere that missiles travelling over the pole weren't as accurate because of the mass of nickel ( ? ) under the crust there, which increases gravity slightly. The amount of the increase isn't able to be accurately measured.

Rogue,

I was always under the impression that the Polar route was the most favoured by both the US and USSR.

Almost everything I have read on the subject deals with the attack taking place over poles.

Furthermore, if you look at the BMEWS system it is orientated in that direction too.

I do not doubt the fact about the nickel and its effect on gravity since I am not a geo-physicist but I know a man who is. So I will check on that for you.

Cheers

BHR

Originally posted by rogue1
True Bill, the fact that GPS was in its infancy when the MX and D-5 missiles guidance systems were being built probably also contributed.

I also read somewhere that missiles travelling over the pole weren't as accurate because of the mass of nickel ( ? ) under the crust there, which increases gravity slightly. The amount of the increase isn't able to be accurately measured.

yeah and the ice sheets press down the crust making it denser, adding to the effects of the material in it.

Guess they just can't plug gravity in as a constant in those guidance systems anymore!

[edit on 9-4-2005 by benign]

SAdly Hicks,

I haven't had the chance to visit the TSR.2, its on the list, although trying to get the girlfriend to show some interest in it seems like a up hill battle lol

I hope to see it some time soon.

- Phil

GooseUK,

I took the wife there a few years and her face was like fizz until she saw a display on a RAF bomber crewman who was shot down over Germany.

She read all about his life and his time in various camps after being shot down. It went on to talk about his escape and return home.

She then said to me what happened to the guy after the war (as if I know everything about planes and the war!!!). Standing next to us was this elderly member of the Museum staff. I said to her to ask him. So she did.

It turned out HE WAS THE GUY!!!!

Now she loves going to Air Museums and she reads all the cards and stories when we are there.

Cheers

BHR

Hicks,

I have read into the whole TSR history, its a sodding shame, like many others in this forum they are proud of our countries and one of the things I would love to see is some british designed aircraft, without the need for US aircraft.

My girl friend is coming round, she is helping me with my UCAV project at the moment with the program, its gotten her into it surprisingly, I am taking her to the Imperal War place in london and then duxford so it should be fun for her.

Love to see a TSR flying :/

- Phil

Gooseuk,

I have not managed to Duxford yet but the IWM is a magnificent museum.

Do not miss any of it as it is all wonderful.

If you are in the area, the RAF Museum at Hendon is good too.

Cheers

BHR