Taiwan was DUTCH before it was ever Chinese-ruled

a reply to: LABTECH767

Well I guess I can thank you for going into a much more indepth approach to what I was saying... Taiwan still was never Dutch.

For myself from a South African historical perspective, it is all rather odd, since before 1994 Taiwan was considered by the Nationalist Party government in SA as the legitimate government of all of China, and still today it calls itself the Republic of China (mainland Communist China being the People's Republic of China).

Of course with the Marxist ANC take-over in SA that was to change considerably, and the once opulent Taiwanese embassy and ambassador's mansion (actually not far from where I live - we used to do naughty things on that hill, so we drove passed it on weekends) got reduced to a "trade office" in Cape Town, whereas many Taiwanese factories in the former homelands were burnt to the ground by ANC supporters (Taiwan was one of the few countries to recognize the erstwhile "independent" black homelands of the Transkei and Ciskei, and to invest in them, for example). And like much of Africa, today the People's Republic are the major players in SA.

I actually went to college with the Taiwanese ambassador's son (a very nice chap - he bought everyone beers on Metal Night). He idolized Chiang Kai-sheck, and considered Taiwan to be the post-War legitimate Chinese government in exile. As the Dictionary of 20th Century History 1914-1990 (Peter Teed: Oxford UP: 1990. Page 455.) points out:

Taiwan maintained its independence from Communist China, as the Republic of China, and until expelled in 1971, sat as the sole representative of the Chinese people in the UN.

a reply to: strongfp

I agree it belonged to the indigenous people whom were there first as much as it does to the Taiwanese of today.
We only own anything for a lifetime if that, if we have kid's they may inherit it but occupation has never been secure in a world of human migration, invasion and war so how much can we ever truly own anything when we are really just passing through this life.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: M5xaz

Japan as we know it today didn't exist either, before the Portuguese 'found' Taiwan. Japan was still somewhat a distanced province of China, as was almost ALL of Asia. There were no 'set' nations but rather provinces all over Asia. It was in constant conflict much like Europe was after the fall of Rome.

China, Japan, Vietnam, Korea, etc. Are rather 'new' in terms of geopolitical borders.

Oh God...

Japan certain existed as we know it today, between the late 19th century and 1945, the year where Taiwan was broken off from Japan....and Japan has a completely separate language from Chinese as well...

Just stop commenting - your total ignorance, it burns....

a reply to: M5xaz

Never said everyone is a communist.

Just the ones who don't agree with you?

If you support the Chinese communists, however, news flash, you are a communist.

Who here is supporting communist China? All I see is accusations and illogical assumptions.

For a cretin, and an ignorant, illogical one, check a mirror.

Ignorant? I just pulled you up on false accusations.
Illogical? You said:

Never said everyone is a communist.

Yet I said

it has you thinking anyone who doesn't think like you is a communist

Does that mean everyone disagrees with you? You think differently ? Nah I just think you're being what you attempted to ascribe to me. As I said, grow up.

Interesting sig BTW lol!

a reply to: M5xaz

You need to keep up with what I'm basing the timeline on.

The Dutch colonized Taiwan in the 1600s. Japan didn't exist as what we know of it today in the 1600s or prior. Same as Taiwan, or China, etc.

My original post you went off on me about was pointing out that Taiwan was never Dutch. And people need to stop using Eurocrntric history as a baseline, or at least admit why its like that, and guess what it was because of colonialism, you know to exploit stuff elsewhere and bring it back to the homeland. And the Japanese did it when all the cool kids started to phase it out.
Further, I also pointed out that Taiwan was conquered and colonized many times before the Dutch. There is a whole history there, not just the European point of view.
But all you care about is calling people communists and china lovers for pointing out the truth.

a reply to: Never Despise

I'm sure there were people there before the Dutch got there.

Even smoking Opium.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: M5xaz

You need to keep up with what I'm basing the timeline on.

The Dutch colonized Taiwan in the 1600s. Japan didn't exist as what we know of it today in the 1600s or prior. Same as Taiwan, or China, etc.

My original post you went off on me about was pointing out that Taiwan was never Dutch. And people need to stop using Eurocrntric history as a baseline, or at least admit why its like that, and guess what it was because of colonialism, you know to exploit stuff elsewhere and bring it back to the homeland. And the Japanese did it when all the cool kids started to phase it out.
Further, I also pointed out that Taiwan was conquered and colonized many times before the Dutch. There is a whole history there, not just the European point of view.
But all you care about is calling people communists and china lovers for pointing out the truth.

Not at all.

You were caught in your lack of knowledge of history and trying to make up for it with completely false statements like you posted above on Dec, 9 2020 @ 03:05 PM:
"Japan as we know it today didn't exist either, before the Portuguese 'found' Taiwan. Japan was still somewhat a distanced province of China, as was almost ALL of Asia. There were no 'set' nations but rather provinces all over Asia"

FALSE !

The ACTUAL reality is this (google it):

"The name for Japan in Japanese is written using the kanji 日本 and pronounced Nippon or Nihon.[9] Before it was adopted in the early 8th century, the country of Japan was known in China as Wa (倭) and in Japan by the endonym Yamato."

Japan is not part of China
"All of asia" is not part of China

E.G. getting back to the matter at hand, Taiwan is not part of China.



Inform yourself before making false statements.
Deny Ignorance.

originally posted by: RAY1990
a reply to: M5xaz

Never said everyone is a communist.

Just the ones who don't agree with you?

If you support the Chinese communists, however, news flash, you are a communist.

Who here is supporting communist China? All I see is accusations and illogical assumptions.

For a cretin, and an ignorant, illogical one, check a mirror.

Ignorant? I just pulled you up on false accusations.
Illogical? You said:

Never said everyone is a communist.

Yet I said

it has you thinking anyone who doesn't think like you is a communist

Does that mean everyone disagrees with you? You think differently ? Nah I just think you're being what you attempted to ascribe to me. As I said, grow up.

Interesting sig BTW lol!

Nope. It seems you are slow on the uptake. Read again. I said "If you support the Chinese communists, however, news flash, you are a communist"

You have reading comprehension issues, clearly.


I support Taiwan's right to democratically decide its' future, and you support the CCP's view.

a reply to: M5xaz

Nope. It seems you are slow on the uptake. Read again. I said "If you support the Chinese communists, however, news flash, you are a communist"

You accused him of supporting the CCP, I saw no pledge of any kind. Potentially biased depending on how one debated it but you'd have to learn a hell of a lot more before you go off accusing.

You have reading comprehension issues, clearly.

Start with the man in the mirror, presumably a bitter old man by the content of your posts.

I support Taiwan's right to democratically decide its' future, and you support the CCP's view.

Lmfao! Genuinely, I thank you for the giggles and for proving my point. Oh please do point out my support of the CCP, you can check all 4624 of my posts.

I have faith that even you can come to the conclusion that I am very critical of China.

Go on I have faith old man.

Claiming Japan was ever "part of China" is, as noted above, simply not true.

Several times in early-medieval history, various Japanese envoys exchanged gifts with China. China chose to see this as the establishment of a "tributary relationship." Japan, not so much.

There is no example in recorded history of Japan being occupied by Chinese troops or officials, paying taxes to China, having Japanese land or persons levied or drafted or otherwise controlled...

The concept of "China" itself is rather historically patchy. Which state was the "Real China" during the Warring States period? The Three Kingdoms period? The five Dynasties period? Northern or southern Sung? Most of the land called "China" on the map today was historically connected to Beijing/Peiking loosely at best.

Meanwhile by the sixth century the House of Yamato had all land from Kyushu to Northern Honshu under fairly tight control (Ritsuryo system).

originally posted by: RAY1990
a reply to: M5xaz

Nope. It seems you are slow on the uptake. Read again. I said "If you support the Chinese communists, however, news flash, you are a communist"

You accused him of supporting the CCP, I saw no pledge of any kind. Potentially biased depending on how one debated it but you'd have to learn a hell of a lot more before you go off accusing.

You have reading comprehension issues, clearly.

Start with the man in the mirror, presumably a bitter old man by the content of your posts.

I support Taiwan's right to democratically decide its' future, and you support the CCP's view.

Lmfao! Genuinely, I thank you for the giggles and for proving my point. Oh please do point out my support of the CCP, you can check all 4624 of my posts.

I have faith that even you can come to the conclusion that I am very critical of China.

Go on I have faith old man.

Hmmm.

Still slow on the uptake, Ray.
Read my quote again, really try, for the THIRD time, I will even highlight it for you:

"If you support the Chinese communists, however, news flash, you are a communist"

To paraphrase, I have faith, review my posts above, even you can come to the conclusion that I am very critical of those with "limited" knowledge of history, posters that go so far as dismissing written historical records...

www.taiwannews.com.tw...

Instead of trying to interpret who rules Taiwan, why don't we ask the Taiwanese?

As China continues to ramp up military pressure on Taiwan, the latest poll by Taiwan Thinktank (台灣智庫) found that 85 percent of respondents consider themselves Taiwanese, while only 8.7 percent think of themselves as Chinese.

a reply to: M5xaz

You skipped the 'if' and went on accusing. You accused him of being a Biden supporter then asked if he's Hunter Biden.

It's not the first time you've thrown wild accusations.

To paraphrase, I have faith, review my posts above, even you can come to the conclusion that I am very critical of those with "limited" knowledge of history, posters that go so far as dismissing written historical records...

OK.

Again with accusations. When did I dismiss any historical records?

Unless you're talking about other posters in regards to a Portuguese Taiwan? News flash Taiwan is mostly, ethnically Chinese.

I support Taiwan's right to democratically decide its' future, and you support the CCP's view.

I notice you never answered my request, see. It's very clear you skip the if and jump to accusation. It's you who's slow on the uptake.

a reply to: fomalhaut

I'm all for self determination. I'm an advocate for national and individual sovereign rights. I'm still strongly apposed to the coalition against Syria and the wholesale disregard of it's sovereignty.

Seems some people only care about communists though. Have you seen any threads or mentions of the Sahrawi people's plight?

You won't, probably because there's no communists involved and it was Trump and America that just defacated on them.

originally posted by: RAY1990
a reply to: M5xaz

You skipped the 'if' and went on accusing. You accused him of being a Biden supporter then asked if he's Hunter Biden.

It's not the first time you've thrown wild accusations.

To paraphrase, I have faith, review my posts above, even you can come to the conclusion that I am very critical of those with "limited" knowledge of history, posters that go so far as dismissing written historical records...

OK.

Again with accusations. When did I dismiss any historical records?

Unless you're talking about other posters in regards to a Portuguese Taiwan? News flash Taiwan is mostly, ethnically Chinese.

I support Taiwan's right to democratically decide its' future, and you support the CCP's view.

I notice you never answered my request, see. It's very clear you skip the if and jump to accusation. It's you who's slow on the uptake.

God, aren't we paranoid.
With regards to the historical record distortions, I said "posters", if I had meant you, I would have said you.
And, I never skipped the "If", but you clearly did - reading comprehension again.

Look up who I responded to above and why, and maybe you can figure it out.
Slow on reading
Slow on uptake

Long on paranoia....

a reply to: M5xaz

You made the accusations. Please post the evidence.

God, aren't we paranoid

Again with accusations, you do delusional well.

Look up who I responded to above and why

Already have old man, I even provided quotes for simplicity. alzheimers?

The onus is on you since you're the one making accusations.