Over 1 Million New Yorkers are moving away from NYC

It really is a race now to see which major city is the next Detroit - San Fran, LA, NYC, or Chicago.

originally posted by: Assassin82
What drives me nuts about the mass exodus of these big cities is they leave because it’s become unlivable due to their extreme liberal policies that they ask for. Then they go somewhere else, bringing the same ideological perspectives with them only expecting it to work somewhere else. Rather than changing their views on the world based on what doesn’t work, they just keep trying to do the same thing over and over expecting different results.

Liberals / Progressives are not known for being able to logically connect dots...

I live in an ultra-liberal town. They are constantly complaining about property taxes, crime, and all kinds of stuff. However, they cannot see how the policies they promote are what drive these issues.

It is really mindboggling to see how otherwise intelligent people simply turn into functional idiots when it comes to politics / economics. Some of my neighbors are doctors, lawyers, etc. All extremely successful professionally yet sometimes when I talk to them about politics you cannot believe how dumb they can be. It truly is a mystery how this happens...

a reply to: Edumakated

Trump is going to pick up a lot of prime real estate for cheap.....LOL! What a epic b!tch slap.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
a reply to: Edumakated

Trump is going to pick up a lot of prime real estate for cheap.....LOL! What a epic b!tch slap.

What is ironic is that Trump was a huge contributor to NYCs resurgence in the 80s / 90s. People forget NYC was a huge sh*t hole in 70s / 80s. Trump made some bets and put some luster back on it with his buildings making it popular to live in the city again. You'd think New Yorkers would be more supportive of him.

People have learned they can now do their jobs remotely, so why stay in a crooked city like New York?

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
a reply to: Edumakated

Trump is going to pick up a lot of prime real estate for cheap.....LOL! What a epic b!tch slap.

Something else funny about it. SDNY will prolly lose most of its lawyers due to cutbacks.

It would be interesting to know if it is mostly the ultra-rich in midtown Manhattan (millionaires and beyond) who are leaving, or the more middle class folks and recent students, twentysomethings, etc. in Brooklyn or other boroughs. Or the out-and-out poor in the worst neighborhoods. I'm guessing it's the middle class who came to the city from elsewhere originally, and "pre-millionare" young people, with a large dollup of real multimillionaires on the side.

a reply to: TKDRL

You are spot on. I see ads that encourage people to help flip Georgia blue. Here near Atlanta, there is a housing shortage.
I think it's because so many as we call them #dmm Yankees are moving here. Low taxes, better weather, better home prices anywhere far enough from our big blue cities. Since we are now both retired, were thinking about moving to Florida, or Alabama, both have great home prices. We only need to be about 15 minutes from Hospital.

a reply to: Fools
Real estate prices haven’t quite fallen just yet. Low interest rates are causing some buying.

a reply to: justdust

I'm glad I live in one of those non-trendy midwestern states most people still consider an armpit. It should be a while before the cancer gets here.

a reply to: ketsuko

Don't be so sure. They seem to spread fast and wide.

originally posted by: Never Despise
It would be interesting to know if it is mostly the ultra-rich in midtown Manhattan (millionaires and beyond) who are leaving, or the more middle class folks and recent students, twentysomethings, etc. in Brooklyn or other boroughs. Or the out-and-out poor in the worst neighborhoods. I'm guessing it's the middle class who came to the city from elsewhere originally, and "pre-millionare" young people, with a large dollup of real multimillionaires on the side.

It is a mix.

The ultra wealthy have been moving to Florida for some time as they age and look for lower taxes. A number of guys worth hundreds of millions and billionaires have publicly left NY for lower taxes. NYC taxes residents like 10% on top of the Federal so you are paying close to 50% in city/state/fed taxes to live in NYC.

The upper middle class has been leaving for suburbs. People who make several hundred grand or low millions per year (yes, that is middle class in NYC). These are people who work in city, have kids in schools, need space, etc.

College students will probably be leaving since schools are remote. No point in trying to live in NYC only to take classes online and you can't even enjoy the city. Not too mention putting yourself in debt.

The only people who won't leave are the lower classes most likely. They don't have the means to pack up and leave. Of course, this means a higher concentration of lower income residents which in turn will cause an increase in crime. NYC could see itself revert back to the city of the 70s/80s if they aren't careful.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Never Despise
It would be interesting to know if it is mostly the ultra-rich in midtown Manhattan (millionaires and beyond) who are leaving, or the more middle class folks and recent students, twentysomethings, etc. in Brooklyn or other boroughs. Or the out-and-out poor in the worst neighborhoods. I'm guessing it's the middle class who came to the city from elsewhere originally, and "pre-millionare" young people, with a large dollup of real multimillionaires on the side.

It is a mix.

The ultra wealthy have been moving to Florida for some time as they age and look for lower taxes. A number of guys worth hundreds of millions and billionaires have publicly left NY for lower taxes. NYC taxes residents like 10% on top of the Federal so you are paying close to 50% in city/state/fed taxes to live in NYC.

The upper middle class has been leaving for suburbs. People who make several hundred grand or low millions per year (yes, that is middle class in NYC). These are people who work in city, have kids in schools, need space, etc.

College students will probably be leaving since schools are remote. No point in trying to live in NYC only to take classes online and you can't even enjoy the city. Not too mention putting yourself in debt.

The only people who won't leave are the lower classes most likely. They don't have the means to pack up and leave. Of course, this means a higher concentration of lower income residents which in turn will cause an increase in crime. NYC could see itself revert back to the city of the 70s/80s if they aren't careful.

You're right on the ball, as usual.

I'm in the category you describe in the second paragraph; I work in Manhattan and live in Connecticut. Just anecdotally, I can't recall a time seeing more NY license plates moving around our area as in the past 6 months or so. The influx of NY emigres is noticeable here, from casually scanning license plates to asking our children about new faces in their classrooms and where they relocated from.

The exodus of high net-worth individuals has been a frequently reported topic here in Connecticut for some time. Many many investment and 'Street heavy hitters had their primary residences just over the border from NY, in Greenwich or the exclusive suburbs around Stanford. With both NY and CT taxes escalating in lock-step, it's a double hit for folks who work in NYC and live just outside NY. Many ultra wealthy folks already have seasonal homes in the South. The CEO of a previous company actually coordinated his calendar to spend about %51 of his time in FL so that for tax purposes, it was considered his primary residence (hence paying no income tax).

Many colleagues of mine are 20-somethings, single with no children, and have taken an opportunity during the pandemic to relocate outside NYC on a temporary basis. They are planning on returning at some point, and are anticipating having very favorable selection, in terms of pricing and location for housing, on a scale that hasn't happened in NYC in probably decades. This (young single professionals) probably constitutes a sizable chunk of the demographic that is leaving/has left, so I'd expect at some point they will return.

So between the very tiny portion of elite wealthy that have left (and may never return), the larger demographic of those in poverty that simply cannot pick up and leave, and the vast number of young professionals that are on a pandemic 'work abroad' year, I expect NYC's population decrease will be a temporary blip, normalizing once there is /some/ social stability in the post-COVID world.

The housing market has boomed in the last few months in my area of New York with all the people fleeing the city.

I'm selling my own house to one such couple. Young Hispanic couple with three small children.

originally posted by: SleeperHasAwakened

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Never Despise
It would be interesting to know if it is mostly the ultra-rich in midtown Manhattan (millionaires and beyond) who are leaving, or the more middle class folks and recent students, twentysomethings, etc. in Brooklyn or other boroughs. Or the out-and-out poor in the worst neighborhoods. I'm guessing it's the middle class who came to the city from elsewhere originally, and "pre-millionare" young people, with a large dollup of real multimillionaires on the side.

It is a mix.

The ultra wealthy have been moving to Florida for some time as they age and look for lower taxes. A number of guys worth hundreds of millions and billionaires have publicly left NY for lower taxes. NYC taxes residents like 10% on top of the Federal so you are paying close to 50% in city/state/fed taxes to live in NYC.

The upper middle class has been leaving for suburbs. People who make several hundred grand or low millions per year (yes, that is middle class in NYC). These are people who work in city, have kids in schools, need space, etc.

College students will probably be leaving since schools are remote. No point in trying to live in NYC only to take classes online and you can't even enjoy the city. Not too mention putting yourself in debt.

The only people who won't leave are the lower classes most likely. They don't have the means to pack up and leave. Of course, this means a higher concentration of lower income residents which in turn will cause an increase in crime. NYC could see itself revert back to the city of the 70s/80s if they aren't careful.

You're right on the ball, as usual.

I'm in the category you describe in the second paragraph; I work in Manhattan and live in Connecticut. Just anecdotally, I can't recall a time seeing more NY license plates moving around our area as in the past 6 months or so. The influx of NY emigres is noticeable here, from casually scanning license plates to asking our children about new faces in their classrooms and where they relocated from.

The exodus of high net-worth individuals has been a frequently reported topic here in Connecticut for some time. Many many investment and 'Street heavy hitters had their primary residences just over the border from NY, in Greenwich or the exclusive suburbs around Stanford. With both NY and CT taxes escalating in lock-step, it's a double hit for folks who work in NYC and live just outside NY. Many ultra wealthy folks already have seasonal homes in the South. The CEO of a previous company actually coordinated his calendar to spend about %51 of his time in FL so that for tax purposes, it was considered his primary residence (hence paying no income tax).

Many colleagues of mine are 20-somethings, single with no children, and have taken an opportunity during the pandemic to relocate outside NYC on a temporary basis. They are planning on returning at some point, and are anticipating having very favorable selection, in terms of pricing and location for housing, on a scale that hasn't happened in NYC in probably decades. This (young single professionals) probably constitutes a sizable chunk of the demographic that is leaving/has left, so I'd expect at some point they will return.

So between the very tiny portion of elite wealthy that have left (and may never return), the larger demographic of those in poverty that simply cannot pick up and leave, and the vast number of young professionals that are on a pandemic 'work abroad' year, I expect NYC's population decrease will be a temporary blip, normalizing once there is /some/ social stability in the post-COVID world.

I think the big unknown is if people can continue to work remotely and how that will impact people's choices. If working remote continues, I think some of these cities will have a hard time recovering. Often times, people live in cities to lessen commute. However, if there is no commute other than to your home office or breakfast bar to work, then I think many people will forgo city living, especially if the restaurant / entertainment of cities isn't offering much either.

The other issue is that a large number of people have been scarred by all this Covid propaganda. Who is going to want to live in NYC and take the subway everywhere?

I love NYC and generally have enjoyed living in big cities, but I really think they've shot themselves in the head trying to kill a mosquito...

My wife is a city girl, but I am trying my damndest to get her to move south to a rural town we love, especially since she can work remotely now. I'm over city living... figure if I need some excitement we can always visit.

a reply to: Edumakated

Lower taxes are good if you're living on retirement income.

The left who howls for capital gains increases aren't yet to the point where they get that.

a reply to: Edumakated

A lot of smaller towns would love to have more residents. And small town life is sweet in slower, safer way.

If we were 100% remote and could find a good small town school system, we'd think about it. There are some good smaller towns in Kansas close to where I grew up that might do.

a reply to: Klassified

Actually many of the people who left are some of the wealthiest.

Cuomo begs wealthy New Yorkers to come back

a reply to: ketsuko

I would but I like my 24 hour Bodegas, variety of restaurants

a reply to: SleeperHasAwakened
A lot of people like you in CT really. My doctor's practice was in BX, but his mansion was in CT. Probably half of the mcmansions I did were in like new cannan(probably butchered spelling), greenwich type areas of CT.