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What would Cuba be like today if...

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posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 02:27 AM
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What would Cuba be like today if there wasn't so much going against them (mainly US aggression)...

I beleive it would have been a Utopia... which was their initial idea...

Discussion?




posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 02:31 AM
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Utopia pffft, more like hell on Earth. You would have Fidel still running the place or even worse Pablo Escobar lol.



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 02:38 AM
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ghost...I think you mean, what if there were no American sanctions? Cuba would probably be more prosperous, but the question is...how much of that money would feed down to the masses?

And to grey fox, pablo escobar? Where do you come up with that?



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 03:06 AM
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Originally posted by ghostsoldier
What would Cuba be like today if there wasn't so much going against them (mainly US aggression)...


cuba shouldve thought of that before siding with our enemy and trying to threaten us by allowing icbm's on their island and things like oh, intercepting satellite signals we send to iran from pro-democracy groups(again aiding an enemy), etc, and anyways cuba was far more prosperious before castro took power.



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 10:49 AM
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Originally posted by Jamuhn
ghost...I think you mean, what if there were no American sanctions? Cuba would probably be more prosperous, but the question is...how much of that money would feed down to the masses?

And to grey fox, pablo escobar? Where do you come up with that?


I'm talking about when he literally had everything his way back in the 70/80s? Any way he could have runned the place by threatening the Cuban Government.



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 11:21 AM
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Cuba is exactly where it SHOULD be.

With that evil wannabe dictator in place they get nothing.
They should go in (I would support that) and blow Castro and his henchmen to kingdom come.
That is every exiled Cubans dream.

Why isnt it done? Cuba has no oil.

Columbus said of Cuba it was by far the most beautiful land he ever saw.

I have to tell you, my childhood in Cuba was incredible. We had a house in Marianao Beach and its known for its spectacular beauty. I went to the best school as a child, and remember nothing but awesome beauty.
Anyone who travelled there will know what i mean. I was priviledged, my dad owned a large lumber yard and we were rich (by Cuban standards) back then.
Castro took over and he took over all the businesses- He OWNED THEM.
My parents applied to come to this country. When the government got wind of this they took the house we owned and all our belongings.
I still remember the Jose Marti Airport and the trauma of only being able to bring with us what we had on. Thats it.

Castro took everything- every home and business . You want evil?

Nothing would make me happier than to see him in chains.

Here is El Morro.




posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 06:37 PM
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I might just be being optimistic, all I based this thread on was theory books, but what Che and Fidel had planned for the country seem perfect... Where I see the problem arrising is when the US turned their back on them, wanted nothing to do with Cuba... So who did Cuba turn to? The Soviet Union... The Soviet Union screwed Cuba aswell...

The USSR placed those missiles in Cuba simply to threaten the West and use it as a bargaining tool, to get the US missiles out of Europe...

If people have given Cuba a chance at the beginning, then the whole problem we are talking about now, most likeably would have been avoided...



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 09:45 PM
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Originally posted by ghostsoldier
What would Cuba be like today if there wasn't so much going against them (mainly US aggression)...

I beleive it would have been a Utopia... which was their initial idea...

Discussion?


US aggression. So we put sanctions on them because they accept missiles from Nikita aimed at our country, and we are the aggressors?



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 09:48 PM
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Dg, that picture looks so much like one of the pictures of my Viejo San Juan and El Felipe del Morro.

I am getting home sick just looking at it.

And yes I remember that Cuba used to be a very beautiful Island before Castro took over.



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 09:50 PM
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Originally posted by ghostsoldier
I might just be being optimistic, all I based this thread on was theory books, but what Che and Fidel had planned for the country seem perfect... Where I see the problem arrising is when the US turned their back on them, wanted nothing to do with Cuba... So who did Cuba turn to? The Soviet Union... The Soviet Union screwed Cuba aswell...

The USSR placed those missiles in Cuba simply to threaten the West and use it as a bargaining tool, to get the US missiles out of Europe...

If people have given Cuba a chance at the beginning, then the whole problem we are talking about now, most likeably would have been avoided...


Probably because in the revolution Fidel used hotels owned by United States capitalist as barracks for his men. That is one reason we turned our back on Cuba. Millions and possible Billions of venture capital was lost and Fidel knew what he was doing. He knew we wouldn't support his revolution if he did that and he would gain favor from communist russia thus putting him in a powerful position of leadership.

He knew his revolt wouldn't ever gain American favor, so he ruined our investments in Cuba to gain favor in Russia, and Russia would sponsor him.



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 10:29 PM
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The point is no one knows what the future might have held for Cuba if things had gone differently. There is too much propaganda from both sides muddying the waters on this issue. Certain people are going to automatically hate Cuba for being communist and people are going to automatically side with Cuba for being Communist. No one knows what the facts are on this issue anymore. We can only project from our own biased opinions because when you get down to it most of us only know what we are told.

I would like to believe that maybe Cuba would have been different if it wasnt put in the position it was. I am an optimist though and I would like to see the best for every country regardless of politics or economic theory. In the end though arguing over alternative history is pointless its like arguing over whether or not Hitler would have won WWII if the Union lost the Civil War.



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 03:15 AM
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Originally posted by boogyman
I would like to believe that maybe Cuba would have been different if it wasnt put in the position it was. I am an optimist though and I would like to see the best for every country regardless of politics or economic theory. In the end though arguing over alternative history is pointless its like arguing over whether or not Hitler would have won WWII if the Union lost the Civil War.


This is true, it is useless to argue over it... I just thought Cuba was a great social experiment in what Socialism could have been capable of... It is great in theory, much harder to acheive in real life...



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 10:58 AM
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........of primarily socialist theory applied. Castro could do the right thing and put a different figure head as the national face....his ego complicates the issue.
We as a nation, in the US, are cutting off our noses to spite our face; meaning, our Agro businesses would have a stellar market to sell to....our trade deficits can receive a tremendous swing....but politics and the appeasment of the Sout Florida bloc are what dictates policy.

It's a great Republican break in ranks ( about the only one) : Floridian Congressional Members vs. Heartland Congressional Members.



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 11:27 AM
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Setting aside the obvious issue of communism in Cuba (which I believe would have a very difficult time succeeding under any situation unless reformed to embrace and manipulate market forces instead of attempting to deny them) there is some reason to believe that Cuba would be a fairly nice place if they were on better terms with the USA.

Cuba has the size to support a significant population and therefore a significant economy. Given a positive political image and strong economy, I think they would have the power and legitimacy to build an economic and diplomatic community in the Caribbean which would greatly benefit that region. If Cuba had evolved along such lines and were an important ally to the US with regard to diplomacy here in our own back yard, I believe America would have armed and supported Cuba to a certain extent, and would have found them to be exceptional allies in almost any conflict- including the war on terror; just look how much fighting they did during the cold war in Africa.

Long story short- If Cuba and America were friends, and if Cuba had a successful economy, it is likely that they would be very diplomatically important. Also, if as a communist or even socialist nation they managed to become so influential, they would be an important liason between the USA and South America, with the power not only to help America, but to make things politically difficult on America as well, which might theoretically give them the leverage to barter a better deal between the USA and latin American nations.

Least but not least- even if things we're quite so glowing, but if Cuba and America weren't so dead set against eachother these days- America wouldn't be screwing itself over with every other latin American country over trying to enforce the isolation of Cuba. This would obviously be beneficial for most of Latin America, as they would be able to talk turkey with America without the first order of business being the irrelevant but ultimately non-negotiable matter of relations with Cuba.



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 07:50 PM
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Heres a peice of Trivia

Did you know Cuba offers Scholarships to anyone from the 3rd world, to study to be a doctor etc... The only other country they offer scholarships to, is the US...

I suppose its just to spite them...



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 09:00 AM
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Originally posted by ghostsoldier
I beleive it would have been a Utopia... which was their initial idea...


Yer, lets blame everything on America


The question I put to you is why would it have been a utopia?



posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 09:35 PM
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Im sure it would have been a utopia with that butcher shae guavero running it.



posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 08:05 AM
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Cuba would be richer, the already good medical research facailities would be better, the national healthcare system would be better.

The dreadful cuban habit of sending doctors to Latin and South america to help poorer countries would be on a larger scale due to better investment.

Cuba could even have moved towards a deomcracy, as the US demands, as without perpetual US pressure such a shift would look less like caving in to forigeners.



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 12:55 PM
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I suspect that, if Cuba hadn't gone communist, that it would be like Porto Rico is today. If there hadn't been any US interference on it, well, that kind of doesn't factor out properly, because the US had a policy of containment for communism, so you'd have to have a fundamentally different US, and a different geopolitical situation where internationalist communism isn't contained.

Its not like cuba could've 'snuck' by either, because of peopel like geura who went abroad fomenting other revolutions.



posted on Aug, 8 2006 @ 01:43 AM
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It's fascinating that Americans always remember the fact that Cuba was going to have Russian missiles... but completely forget that a year or so prior to that, the US backed an INVASION FORCE which foundered at the Bay of Pigs.

I also suspect that had the US not been so aggressive in pursuing sanctions and trying to assassinate Castro, life would be much better for the average Cuban. I worked alongside quite a few Cubans when I worked on cruise ships in the Caribbean, and they were by far the coolest, best educated people from the islands.

It used to really piss me off that at most of the ports we called at, they were not allowed to land - effectively prisoners on the ship due entirely to the bullying policies of the US.

Cuba is famous for two exports - doctors and musicians (it probably has more incredible musicians per head of population than anywhere else on the planet). Yeah, Castro is such a threat.

It is a shame about what happened to the exile community, but I can understand that in order to safeguard the regime Castro had to be pretty heavy handed. The number of South and Central American countries that have had their governments subverted by the US in the time that Castro's been in power bears powerful testimony to the sneakiness and determination of the US in that region. And these interventions have never benefited the locals, they are always designed to "protect US interests" - in other words, ensure that US businesses can rip off the local cheap labour and resources without ever having to pay any tax or support the local folk in any material way.

US propaganda always pictures the US as some kind of regional saviour, whereas US intervention is always the precursor to repression of the poorest people and the enrichment of a tiny elite. Venezuela is a case in point: Chavez is providing health care and literacy programmes for the poorest and Washington does not like that in the slightest. Venezuela, of course, has oil which the US needs to support its gas-guzzling populace...




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