Australia won't rule out replacing Italian troops quitting Iraq

I as an American want to thank Australia for being a good friend in tough times, even when the stakes are high. It will not be forgotten.



Australia won't rule out replacing Italian troops quitting Iraq

SYDNEY (AFP) - Prime Minister John Howard refused to rule out sending more Australian troops to Iraq (news - web sites) after Italy's surprise decision to pull its 3,000 soldiers from the war-torn country.


An Australian soldier on patrol in Baghdad. Prime Minister John Howard refused to rule out sending more Australian troops to Iraq (news - web sites) after Italy's surprise decision to pull its 3,000 soldiers from the war-torn country.(AFP/File/Marwan Naamani)




Australia announced last month that it would deploy an additional 450 soldiers to southern Iraq to help protect a Japanese humanitarian project and train Iraqi troops after the withdrawal of 1,400 Dutch military from the area.


That decision was opposed by most Australians and Howard came under sharp questioning in parliament Wednesday over whether he would again boost the number of Australian troops in Iraq to fill the gap left by the Italian pullout.

Australia won't rule out replacing Italian troops quitting Iraq

[edit on 17-3-2005 by edsinger]

Nice to see the old SLR/FN 7.62 still in operation.

Good troops, based on UK doctrine, better than Italians IMO.

It was either them or the UK. Berlusconi wasn't much of an ally anyway - not there for the invasion, token force committed when times were easier / money to be made.

And the Dutch (AKA The Serbian Transport Service) nice blondes / good skunk but lousy troops - not much of a loss

If we'd have wimped out at the first blue on blue we'd never have crossed the Kuwati border.

Originally posted by edsinger
I as an American want to thank Australia for being a good friend in tough times, even when the stakes are high. It will not be forgotten.

The Australian commitment has to be known before it can be forgotten. I doubt the average American on the street even knows or cares. Again, you can thank your Liberal Party "Pacific Deputy" John Winston Howard for this. Not the average Australian.

Iraq troops have cost us, admits Howard

A NEW opinion poll showing Labor has overtaken the coalition government reflects a lack of support for the doubling of troop numbers in Iraq, Prime Minister John Howard admitted today.

The ACNielsen poll published in Fairfax newspapers shows Labor leading the government on a two-party preferred basis by 52 per cent to 48 per cent.

It is the first time the Coalition has fallen behind the Federal Opposition in seven months and comes just three weeks after the government announced it would send an extra 450 troops to Iraq's Al Muthanna province.

Mr Howard said he never promised not to send more troops to Iraq, but he realised the decision was not popular with Australians.

"I acknowledged at the time that our decision would not be popular and the polls would indicate that it's not got popular support," he told Brisbane radio 4BC.

Poll shows we have a daily fight: PM
Iraq to blame for support fall: PM
PM admits public don't support Iraq decision

I have not met one person here since the Iraq war began that supports it. Not one, and that is no exaggeration. This might sound harsh, but Australians generally respond to your thankyou with "You're not welcome". *shrugs*

Oh, yeah. You can go ahead and call us anti-American now. Or whatever the latest catch phrase of the day is.

oh well Cargo mate, as long as our defence is assured by the United States we gotta do things like Iraq

Edsinger, I'd rather fight along with the yanks anyday over the Italians. They couldnt even beat the greeks

thanks,
drfunk

[edit on 18-3-2005 by drfunk]

[edit on 18-3-2005 by drfunk]

Exactly DrFunk, Even if he is a moron, hes the moron with the biggest gun, plus the american people are A ok

Hey America your so fine you so fine you blow my mind

Originally posted by drfunk
oh well Cargo mate, as long as our defence is assured by the United States we gotta do things like Iraq

And there you have the 64 thousand dollar question.

Bay of Pigs...
Kurdish Rebellion...

I just hope we never have to find out.

Those Italians havent had the stomach for war since the roman empire They are wimping out just like they did in WW2, when things started getting a little tough.

Maybe if the US starts shooting at Aussie secret service men and journalists they too will learn their lesson and pull out.

Aaaaaaaaand once again Ed rolls out the Eagles, the Stars and Stripes and the blood-stirring, wipe-a-tear-away-from-my-patriotic-eye salutes to "Aussie diggers standing by Bush's side". How many times can you post this sort of...don't say it...DON'T SAY IT!...CRA-...stuff...before you finally read the replies from us Aussies who tell you that we don't want our troops involved in Bush's War on Oil? I mean, seriously. You even put it in your own post:

Originally posted by Edsinger
That decision was opposed by most Australians and Howard came under sharp questioning in parliament Wednesday over whether he would again boost the number of Australian troops in Iraq to fill the gap left by the Italian pull-out.

We Aussies, like many Americans, don't want a bar of it, but we are powerless to stop the actions of our government. That's a nice pic of an Aussie trooper on a tank ya got there. Here's some more pics of Aussies. Seems to be a few more than 450:


More than 10,000 anti-war protesters march through Sydney's central business district on Thursday. Photo: AFP


Marching against war in Sydney. Photo: AFP

Clicky clicky the links to see what most Aussies think about Howard and his fawning up to Bush.

Here's another and another.

Originally posted by Edsinger
...after the withdrawal of 1,400 Dutch military from the area
...after Italy's surprise decision to pull its 3,000 soldiers from the war-torn country.

"Surprise"? Where's the surprise? Who didn't see this coming? The only surprise is that the Italian government didn't listen to the citizens that elected them earlier.
IRAQ Protests: Italy and Spain See Massive Anti-War Turnout
Bush Faces Protests in Italy
Australia's 450 is not going to shore up the holes left by the exodus of other country's troops from Iraq.

And Bush protect Australia? Australia is a pawn to keep the guns pointed around China. Ask New Zealand how strong treaties are with the US government. In dealing with Washington, it's tow the line with US foreign policy or get shut out in the cold. Preferential treatment for trade deals is another scout badge given to good little administrations that kowtow. War, trade, money, oil; it's all the same thing, right?
Upside, Downside: ANZUS: After Fifty Years

Are you on the Pentagon propaganda payroll or what? Sounds like you want to give us Aussies a medal for our comparatively paltry and largely unsupported contributions to the Iraq invasion. Well, you can pin it on Johnny Howard's short, little derrière as he bends over to once again take it up the Kaiber Pass from Bush & Co.

And if you want to call me anti-American, come over to where I am and say it in front of all my American mates who agree with me on this very issue.

Rock the warn.

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace
We Aussies, like many Americans, don't want a bar of it, but we are powerless to stop the actions of our government.

"many" Americans? Careful with your quotes there Peace, you might trip yourself up. Many Americans support this war and my proof is the re-election of George W. Bush. The screaming peace activists your showing are a minority here in America and even their control of the media, schools and courts did not stop us Christians from showing our power and resolve to fight the terrorists on their home turf.

Too bad you can't take pride in your countries actions, many years from now when the dust has setteled maybe you will see that your government was not so stupid after all. America does not forget her friends and Australia is a good friend.

Maximu§

Originally posted by cargo

I have not met one person here since the Iraq war began that supports it. Not one, and that is no exaggeration. This might sound harsh, but Australians generally respond to your thankyou with "You're not welcome". *shrugs*

Help me to understand, Cargo...if Australian support is SO very unpopular, before, during and since, how is it that John Howard got re-elected? With a majority, no less? Do they use the same voting machines in Austrialia that they use in the U.S.? Heheheheheh...

As a comparison, in Canada the Liberals lost their majority government over a spending scandale to do with the last Quebec referendum on separation....

Since the decline of the roman Empire, the Italians may have a more lousy millitary history than the french when it comes to victories, but still Berluscino is an important Busah supporter when it comes to give freeway to corporate rule. Italy is big enough to add some political/economical weight to the Bush doctrine and above provide a crossatlantic sense of recognision/legitimacy.

Italian troops to stay, after all

www.timesonline.co.uk...

TO BITING criticism from the Italian Opposition and the press, Silvio Berlusconi, the Prime Minister, backtracked yesterday over his announcement that Italian troops would start withdrawing from Iraq in September, claiming that this had only ever been a “hope” rather than a commitment.

So, who will be the first to retract the nasty things that have been said about the Italians in this thread?

[edit on 18-3-2005 by negativenihil]

I apologize for the heated nature of my last post. Had a bad day at work and I'm stuck on ATS on Friday night without a date.

Originally posted by LA_Maximus
"many" Americans? Careful with your quotes there Peace, you might trip yourself up. Many Americans support this war and my proof is the re-election of George W. Bush.

It wasn't a quote, it was a statement. I wrote "many", not 'the majority'. But you are correct, I should have clarified: Many Americans, the majority of Australians.

Originally posted by AlwaysLearning
Help me to understand, Cargo...if Australian support is SO very unpopular, before, during and since, how is it that John Howard got re-elected? With a majority, no less? Do they use the same voting machines in Austrialia that they use in the U.S.? Heheheheheh...

Despite the passionate nature of the objections, Aussies were confident that our participation in Iraq would remain minor. Howard, as all Australian PMs, was elected on the basis of economic and social issues, just like:

...in Canada the Liberals lost their majority government over a spending scandale to do with the last Quebec referendum on separation....

Again, in the end, when it comes to voting: money talks.

Originally posted by negativenihil
Italian troops to stay, after all

Oh...Berlusconi must have sh*t his pants when Bushy wouldn't take his explanatory phone call. God forbid he suffer the wrath of the Bushy cold shoulder treatment.

Will be interesting to see what happens come the Italian presidential elections.

Many Americans support this war and my proof is the re-election of George W. Bush.

By a staggering margin of what, slightly less than 1%?

Plenty of people supported the Iraq war. Plenty of people were against it.

Pretending the insanely close election proves that some vast majority support Bush and his foreign policy is self-evidently silly. My bet: if Kerry had had a less awful gun control record in the Senate (yes I am a pro-RKBA "liberal", gasp!), Bush's advantage in rural areas would have evoporated and we'd have a Democrat in the White House now.

The latest polls show something like 57% of the US population thinks the Iraq war was a mistake. But the election was more than a referendum on Iraq, believe it or not there were other issues in play.

Originally posted by AlwaysLearning

Originally posted by cargo

I have not met one person here since the Iraq war began that supports it. Not one, and that is no exaggeration. This might sound harsh, but Australians generally respond to your thankyou with "You're not welcome". *shrugs*

Help me to understand, Cargo...if Australian support is SO very unpopular, before, during and since, how is it that John Howard got re-elected? With a majority, no less? Do they use the same voting machines in Austrialia that they use in the U.S.? Heheheheheh...

As a comparison, in Canada the Liberals lost their majority government over a spending scandale to do with the last Quebec referendum on separation....

Well the the Liberal Party (Australian version of the Republicans to a degree despite their name) actually campaigned on what scared the people the most. The economy. The war was actually not mentioned very often and Howard basically scared the people into voting for him saying that under the Labor party interest rates will rise. Which was a load of crap considering interest rates here just rose under the Howard Government.

From reading various threads on various Forums, it appears that the Australian perspective on all this is VASTLY different to the perspective of most Americans.

During the Gulf war there were massive anti war rallies here in Australia that were the biggest public demonstrations on any issue since Vietnam. The war was, and is extremely unpopular here. It is seen as America invading any country for totally dishonest reasons that has nothing to do with WMD or terrorism. The war is seen as an economic war about oil and the US dollars strength. The US is losing that particular battle.

What happened next was that CIA planted a bomb which exploded in Bali killing and maiming a couple of hundred Australians. That was "our " 9/11 if you like. That Bomb was planted to send a very clear message to Australia. Join us in the war on terror or we will show you what terror really is. Bush himself said "you are either with us or against us".

It may be a shock for most Americans to learn that Australia's contribution to the war on terror is about 330 Australian troops that are guarding the Australian Embassy. Not one Australian has died over there directly from hostilities. There have been two accidental deaths of Australians in Iraq, one was crushed when a vehicle went of the road, (it was not under fire), and another Australian with family now living in England was killed when an RAF Hercules aircraft was brought down by a SAM, just a few weeks ago. That gained very wide press coverage out here, because it is only the second fatality since the very beginning.

Bush gets up and praises Australia for supporting America, but the facts are that we are actually doing nothing of the sort. Prime Minister Howard is playing very clever politics. On the one hand he publicly supports Bush, but most if not all Australians fully understand that the military presence over there is only token.

We are now sending over an extra 400 troops TO ASSIST WITH HUMANITARIAN AID. They will not be front line combat troops. Australia would never support that, and Howard well knows it.

This is all being done to prevent the CIA from killing more Australian civilians. The Americans I know living here in Australia are all fine people, but American foreign policy is really starting to get up the noses of most Australians. Please try to understand this, It is not a hate America campaign. I am just trying to express what I and the majority of Australians think of Bush and his phony dishonest illegal war.

Also try to understand that the war is a very minor issue here. The last election was won by Howard on economic and social issues. The war was hardly even mentioned by either side of politics during the election. If Americans think Howard's election was an overwhelming endorsement of Bush and the war on terror, you are very seriously in error.

I honestly believe Howard would prefer to close the Embassy in Baghdad and bring all our guys home ASAP. Bush would go absolutely nuts if he did that, so the farce continues. As long as Bush can make it sound like we are a hundred percent fully behind him, he will leave us alone. If Australian troops start getting killed in large numbers, Howard will be put under huge pressure. So our troops will just continue doing police duties around the Australian Embassy and guarding international aid vehicles.

I realise many Americans will totally refuse to believe any of this, but it is the truth.

Originally posted by Warpspeed

I realise many Americans will totally refuse to believe any of this...

Yup, you got that right. Especially the BS about the CIA planting the bomb in Bali.

Please provide supportive documentation/links

...but it is the truth.

Sure, you can claim it to be whatever you desire. That does NOT constitute "truth".

Again, where's the support for your theory? - the CIA/Bali connection

This post isn't truth - it's opinion, and nothing more.