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France's Macron issues 'republican values' ultimatum to Muslim leaders

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posted on Nov, 19 2020 @ 01:39 PM
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I'll be open and up front: I'm not a great lover of the French nation - a thousand years of history can't be washed away over night.

But there are some things about them that I do admire greatly; their belief and faith in themselves and their determination to stand up against authority are two that immediately spring to mind.

I've had little regard for Macron due to his attitude to the UK over Brexit etc - he is a staunch supporter of the EU and France and Germany's hegemony over the rest of Europe.

But his reaction to the recent spate of terrorist attacks in France can only be commended.
Its about time someone started saying it like it is and started actually doing something about Islamic terrorism and the overall attitude of many Muslims in our countries.

Yesterday Macron and his Interior Minister met with representatives from the French Council of Muslim Faith and a 'charter' was 'agreed' upon.


"Two principles will be inscribed in black and white [in the charter]: the rejection of political Islam and any foreign interference," one source told the Le Parisien newspaper after the meeting.

The formation of the National Council of Imams was also agreed upon



French President Emmanuel Macron has asked Muslim leaders to accept a "charter of republican values" as part of a broad clampdown on radical Islam.

On Wednesday he gave the French Council of the Muslim Faith (CFCM) a 15-day ultimatum to accept the charter.

The CFCM has agreed to create a National Council of Imams, which will reportedly issue imams with official accreditation which could be withdrawn.


And

The charter will state that Islam is a religion and not a political movement, while also prohibiting "foreign interference" in Muslim groups.


In addition they have drafted legislation aimed at 'preventing radicalisation'.

From the article:

In France, state secularism (laïcité) is central to the country's national identity. Freedom of expression in schools and other public spaces is part of that, and curbing it to protect the feelings of a particular religion is seen as undermining national unity.


www.bbc.co.uk...

All I can say is well done Monsieur Macron, my respect for both you and the French nation has risen sharply.

Vive La France!
edit on 19/11/20 by Freeborn because: grammar and clarity




posted on Nov, 19 2020 @ 02:07 PM
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Sounds like a step in the right direction, do have a question though, and it's honest as I do not know. Do other religions have say a French Council of Christian Faith or a Nation Council of Rabbis? I'd imagine not.



posted on Nov, 19 2020 @ 02:13 PM
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a reply to: Freeborn

That sounds great and hopefully it also gives the french the right to deport those who are against it to a Country which is Islamic and runs by the Islamic Law.



posted on Nov, 19 2020 @ 02:20 PM
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There is a very simple explanation for this. Macron and Marine LePen are head to head in the polls for the 2022 presidential elections.



posted on Nov, 19 2020 @ 02:36 PM
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a reply to: putnam6

To be honest, I don't know.

I know there is something like that here in the UK.

France has the third largest Jewish population behind Israel and the USA with over 500,000 Jews living there.
Apparently they are regardedas having a strong sense of national identity.



posted on Nov, 19 2020 @ 02:41 PM
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a reply to: CrazeeWorld777


That sounds great and hopefully it also gives the french the right to deport those who are against it to a Country which is Islamic and runs by the Islamic Law.


If it doesn't it should.

The key though is to stop the radicalisation in the first place, encourage increased integration whilst having zero tolerance on anything even remotely extremist.



posted on Nov, 19 2020 @ 03:06 PM
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originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: putnam6

To be honest, I don't know.

I know there is something like that here in the UK.

France has the third-largest Jewish population behind Israel and the USA with over 500,000 Jews living there.
Apparently, they are regarded as having a strong sense of national identity.


One of the reasons I asked. How this does and is handled I'm sure the rest of Europe and the UK and the world are watching with great interest too.

Who cares about the motivation they needed to address it.



posted on Nov, 19 2020 @ 03:19 PM
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Vive la Republique Francais.

To be fair, during my life we have only been allied to France, so I can’t hold on to history like some people do. I feel the same way about every country we have been allied to all my life.

The terrorists running around Europe are no more Muslim than you or I. They’re brainwashed idiots who have bought into a certain extremist belief. It’s not the real world, it’s twisted B.S, that vulnerable, gullible young people are attracted to.

We need to set so much of a better example, for the sakes of future generations.



posted on Nov, 19 2020 @ 03:41 PM
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a reply to: MindBodySpiritComplex


There is a very simple explanation for this. Macron and Marine LePen are head to head in the polls for the 2022 presidential elections.


I never thought of that.
I'm sure there was a certain amount of political consideration, Macron is after all a career politician.

But who cares what the motivation is, its a step in the right direction and one that the rest of us should consider copying.



posted on Nov, 19 2020 @ 03:42 PM
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Good for France. Islam is the one religion that people are afraid to test their freedom of speech with.



posted on Nov, 19 2020 @ 03:54 PM
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a reply to: Cobaltic1978


To be fair, during my life we have only been allied to France, so I can’t hold on to history like some people do.


The intro was a bit tongue in cheek.....and a bit motivated by de Gaulle and his blatant and arrogant anti-British attitude, exactly the same as many of his countrymen.
I could go into much greater depth and detail but that's not really what this thread is about.

As I said in the OP, my respect for the French has increased quite a bit over the last few years.....if it wasn't for their smug arrogance and pro-EU stance I'd say I almost like them now!



The terrorists running around Europe are no more Muslim than you or I.


So I keep on getting told....but the thing is, they think they are Muslims as do many other Muslims.
And they think they are doing as instructed by the Muslim holy book.

So if they aren't Muslims what exactly are they because as far as I'm concerned the 'if it walks like a duck' saying seems quite apt here?



They’re brainwashed idiots who have bought into a certain extremist belief. It’s not the real world, it’s twisted B.S, that vulnerable, gullible young people are attracted to.


I don't dispute much of that.
But who's doing the 'twisting'?
Who's doing the manipulating?

And many of these Imam's etc are old men and they passionately believe the extremism they are spouting.



We need to set so much of a better example, for the sakes of future generations.


So are you saying its 'our' fault and 'our' responsibility?

How exactly do you propose we set this 'better example'?



edit on 19/11/20 by Freeborn because: spelling, typo's.



posted on Nov, 19 2020 @ 05:56 PM
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originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
Vive la Republique Francais.

To be fair, during my life we have only been allied to France, so I can’t hold on to history like some people do. I feel the same way about every country we have been allied to all my life.

The terrorists running around Europe are no more Muslim than you or I. They’re brainwashed idiots who have bought into a certain extremist belief. It’s not the real world, it’s twisted B.S, that vulnerable, gullible young people are attracted to.

We need to set so much of a better example, for the sakes of future generations.



Sympathy with that, but those terrorists, are by default also political though, certainly the events here in Northern Ireland were political, while there is/was a fair deal of sycophants attached to altar biters and Bible thumpers, both sides of whom had entrenched nationalism, Christianity presumably at it's worst, however a greater deal of people never wanted such violence, Christianity at it's best...they never stood a chance.



posted on Nov, 19 2020 @ 06:03 PM
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Agree with your sentiments - I'm also not the biggest fan of France and the French and definitely not Macron but he is showing some real balls and leadership here.

The West to our credit welcome all cultures and beliefs and seek to ingrain them in to our societies. This however, needs to end where we are expected to forego our own culture, history and beliefs to satisfy others.

We have our own histories, cultures, languages and beliefs and have the same right as any other to want to preserve and celebrate those.



posted on Nov, 19 2020 @ 06:04 PM
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The Muslims signed it and walked away. It means nothing to them just humoring the French. Simple as that. Nothing will change.




posted on Nov, 20 2020 @ 02:01 AM
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a reply to: IAMALLYETALLIAM


Agree with your sentiments - I'm also not the biggest fan of France and the French and definitely not Macron but he is showing some real balls and leadership here.


I think he's showing some great leadership and can only be commended.

I sincerely doubt that there is anyone either leading or potentially leading any of our major political parties who have either the balls or the inclination to do something even remotely similar here in the UK.



The West to our credit welcome all cultures and beliefs and seek to ingrain them in to our societies. This however, needs to end where we are expected to forego our own culture, history and beliefs to satisfy others.


Indeed we do have a long history of welcoming other cultures.
But that needn't be at the expense our own culture.

There are large Indian communities here in the UK, most either Hindu's or Sikh's.
Both have retained their own cultural practices and beliefs but have integrated into UK society.
They are hugely respected and many 'native' Brits could learn from their work ethos and family and community values.
Indian immigrants have enhanced Briitsh society, at no point have they sought to undermine traditional British values and our history and culture.



We have our own histories, cultures, languages and beliefs and have the same right as any other to want to preserve and celebrate those.


Most definitely....and promoting our own culture and history should never be deemed racist or undesirable.

I find it strange that Scottish, Irish and Welsh nationalism is perfectly acceptable and celebrations of thier heritage are avtively encouraged and even promoted by MSM etc.
Any celebration of Englishness and even Britishness now is immediately deemed racist and/or arrogant and actively discouraged and even mocked and ridiculed.

Hypocrisy and double standards.

But the thing is the majority of Muslims either choose not to integrate much into UK society or are actively discouraged to by the hugely influential Imam's and other community leaders.
And very few leading politicians and public figures refuse to acknowledge this and/or do anything about the huge problems Islam and its followers pose the UK.

Macron it seems realises this and is beginning to take real measures to address the issues.



posted on Nov, 20 2020 @ 03:04 AM
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a reply to: mikell



The Muslims signed it and walked away. It means nothing to them just humoring the French. Simple as that. Nothing will change.


They were given a 15 day deadline to sign.

Let's just wait and see if anytihng will change.

The point is; if they don't what will Macron then do?
Will he start imprisoning Imam's and community leaders?

I did a bit of research into the religions of respective nations prison populations and if I rmeember rightly Muslims account for somewhere around 10% of the overall French population yet somewhere around 40% - 60% of French prison inmates are Musilm....a massive disparity.
If I remember correctly Belgium was around the same and whilst there was/is an imbalance in most European countries and the USA it was nowhere near that shown in France.
I'll try to dig the exact figures out when I have more time.

The point is that imprisonment seems no deterrent....certainly not to someone who is willing to blow themselves up.

So what punitive action can we take?



posted on Nov, 20 2020 @ 03:20 AM
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a reply to: smurfy


Sympathy with that, but those terrorists, are by default also political though,.....


Are they?
What political cause are they fighting for?

Islam controls every aspect of a persons life.
It determines what a person should eat, who they can marry, how they interact with people of their own faith and other faiths. Everything.

Suggests to me they ar efighting for a religion and not a political cause.
It could possibly be argued that a group like the PLO were fighting a political battle....some random guy chopping another mans head off over a cartoon because an Imam said he was insulting Islam has nothing to do with furthering a political cause.



.... certainly the events here in Northern Ireland were political,....


Began with religion, became political.....then ultimately it was about power, control, racketeering and extortion.



..... while there is/was a fair deal of sycophants attached to altar biters and Bible thumpers, both sides of whom had entrenched nationalism, Christianity presumably at it's worst,


Of course there was a religious element to it and to suggest otherwise is ridiculous.
But there were far more factors at play.

Its also easy to gloss over the fact that both sets of paramilitaries put aside their political and religious differences to co-operate and work together in large drug deals and gun running - generating money took priority.

That speaks volumes.

The people at the top of these 'organisations' took advantage of the romantic nature of the Irish people and used them, manipulated them and brutally controlled them all in order to maintain control in their repsective areas and make shed loads of money.



.... however a greater deal of people never wanted such violence, Christianity at it's best...they never stood a chance.


They didn't.
They do now.

Shame the EU is jeopardising that....a discussion for another time and place I think.



posted on Nov, 21 2020 @ 10:53 AM
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The problem they're having with Islam is that according to the religion if you're not a Muslim you're subhuman. It's perfectly OK with Allah if you lie, cheat, kill, steal, and enslave the "Infidels".

Their "agreement" is just a piece of paper. And in a few years when they are adding a Islamic green strip to their flag the French will realize that agreement was just a Munich pact to pacify the plebs.

1 Thessalonians

3 While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.
edit on 21-11-2020 by ntech because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2020 @ 12:33 PM
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a reply to: ntech

Taqiya allegedly was only supposed to be used when Muslims felt threatened due to their faith and they could lie about which religion they belinged to.
With the help of 'radical' teachers in many Islamic denominations/sects/interpretations this has come to mean that Muslims are allowed, or even have a duty, to deceive non-believers/infidels/kaffirs if it furthers the cause of Islam.

That doesn't mean that every Muslims lies, deceives and cheats....in fact I suspect that most don't.
I have no doubt that the primary concerns of most Muslims is exactly the same as mine and yours - to provide for our families the best we can, not to cause offence unnecessarily to others and generally just go about our business free from any undue hassle and stress.

We have welcomed many Muslims into our countries and have offered them safe haven.
Far too many though have not reciprocated that generosity and have been influenced by the 'radical' Imams and their modern interpretation of Taqiya.
They seek to use our ideals of freedom of speech and religion against us to strip us of those self same innate rights.
They have turned on their foster homes and wish to transform them into some sort of replica of the #holes they have fled.
Many versions of modern day Islam are diametrically opposed to 'our' values and run counter to 'our' cultures and heritage.

Its not creeping Islamification, its not got that bad yet.
But it doesn't help that with the pandering to political correctness and the advent and influence of woke politics any frank and open discussion about these issues are frowned upon, immediately labelled 'racist' and subsequently suppressed.
In addition, the extremists are given a level of exposure that outstrips their numbers and perhaps even their influence.

Yes, we need to stop the spread of extremism....but for this to happen we need to be brutally honest and open about it and in the current political climate that is impossible.

Macron is at least starting to address some of these issues but he has a long, long way to go.
We need to follow his lead with a matter of utmost urgency.
It is there intention to undermine and



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