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reply posted on 18-3-2005 @ 06:26 PM by ghostsoldier
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What IF China waits until the US goes into Iran? ... That'd be a whole 'nother story... China would be on easy street (to a certain extent) in such
an event...
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reply posted on 18-3-2005 @ 06:37 PM by Muaddib
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 Originally posted by rapier28
.............
Perhaps for each of the things that you say the Chinese government is doing, you should do some research and back those statements up with fact. You
might surprise yourself. 
And i have, time and time again. Everyone of those things i said i have given links, and quotes that back up my statements, but it does get tiresome
of being repetitive, and then again you also get some members in these boards who then accuse me of presenting the same information over and over when
anyone requests proof.
[edit on 18-3-2005 by Muaddib]
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reply posted on 18-3-2005 @ 06:55 PM by Muaddib
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Originally posted by 00PS
China Oppresses China
USA Oppresses the World...
Do the reasearch and let facts and numbers speak for themselves
So, China is not oppressing Taiwan which is a separate country? China is not telling the world that it will attack and invade Taiwan if it declares
independence? Did China not truly invade Tibet and make it part of their territory?....
Now, about the US....who is the US oppressing?.... People in Iraq have free elections, the same as in Afghanistan, and what the coalition started
with the war in Iraq, has made many people in the Middle East want the same freedoms.... Look at what is happening in Lebanon at this moment...
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reply posted on 18-3-2005 @ 07:47 PM by ghostsoldier
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Originally posted by Muaddib
So, China is not oppressing Taiwan which is a separate country?
Tell me how China is opressing the people of Taiwan?
If Taiwan goes independant it will be WW3, but why do they want to be independant? My guess is because they have Uncle Sam whispering in their
ear...
Originally posted by Muaddib
Now, about the US....who is the US oppressing?.... People in Iraq have free elections, the same as in Afghanistan...
You have so much to learn... 
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reply posted on 18-3-2005 @ 07:48 PM by Muaddib
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Originally posted by ghostsoldier
........
You have so much to learn...
From whom a self proclaimed revolucionario?...no thanks...
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reply posted on 18-3-2005 @ 07:52 PM by Muaddib
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Originally posted by ghostsoldier
If Taiwan goes independant it will be WW3, but why do they want to be independant? My guess is because they have Uncle Sam whispering in their
ear...
So i guess the US is whispering to the majority of people in Taiwan to be pro-democratic?... it is not that they themselves want to finally be able to
be free of the communist regime?...
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reply posted on 18-3-2005 @ 07:56 PM by ghostsoldier
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hmmm... *strokes chin*
You still haven't told me how they are being opressed...
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reply posted on 18-3-2005 @ 08:00 PM by Muaddib
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Originally posted by ghostsoldier
You still haven't told me how they are being opressed...
i see....so you think that it doesn't matter that the people of Taiwan want finally to be recognized as independent from China, and that China is
saying that if they declare independence the Chinese government will declare war on the people of Taiwan....and to you this does not show that the
Taiwanese people are oppressed by the Chinese government.... yep, you are a revolucionario alright, fidel and others like him would be proud of you.
[edit on 18-3-2005 by Muaddib]
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reply posted on 19-3-2005 @ 03:31 AM by ghostsoldier
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I think it would be wrong of China to go to war with Taiwan if Taiwan wants to become a republic... I just don't understand Taiwans reasons... It
would be on paper only... It will make no difference to the running of the country in anyway of significance...
And from my sources its basically 50:50, just as many people want Taiwan to stay part of China...
I just dont understand why there is such a big need to start WW3, for a matter of principal...
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reply posted on 19-3-2005 @ 04:27 AM by subz
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You guys are arguing about something you cant both prove because both countries have done wrong.
China is a serial human rights abuser - Muaddib is right
The USA is a serial human rights abuser - Ghostsoldier is right
Now instead of quibbling about it, be constructive about it. What now?
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reply posted on 20-3-2005 @ 07:28 PM by ghostsoldier
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...
Secretary of State Condoleenza Rice is visiting China today, what differences/impact do you think that will have on the situation?
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reply posted on 21-3-2005 @ 04:11 AM by subz
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Muaddib, try this basic role reversal activity on the Taiwan issue for me.
Hypothetically lets say that Hawaii shows intentions to become a Communist country. It announces its removal from the Union. It then gets vocal
backing from China. China then signals its intent to go to War to protect "Hawaii's right to self determination". China then starts giving weapons
to Hawaii.
Ok now heres the activity: What would the United States do?
Would it respect Hawaii's right to break away from the Union and follow its own path of self determination? Or would the USA try and protect its
border integrity and forcibly remove the break away goverment of Hawaii?
Im not passing judgement on either side here I just want to know what Muaddib would expect the United States to do in this hypothetical situation.
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reply posted on 21-3-2005 @ 04:20 AM by Indigo_Child
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This is getting better:
US, Taiwan South Korea vs China, Russia, Iran
Of course we are going into a world war.
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reply posted on 21-3-2005 @ 04:25 AM by rapier28
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Originally posted by Indigo_Child
This is getting better:
US, Taiwan South Korea vs China, Russia, Iran
Of course we are going into a world war.
Replace South Korea with Japan.
As long as NK is not there, SK will not be there.
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reply posted on 21-3-2005 @ 04:49 AM by Indigo_Child
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Yeah right, forgot about Japan, Australia and North Korea.
US, Europe, Japan, Taiwan Australia, South Korea vs Rusia, China, North Korea and Iran
Anyone I am missing? I think Canada will fight on the US side. I wonder where we can fit India and Pakistan? They'll probably just have their own
war.
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reply posted on 21-3-2005 @ 05:01 AM by rapier28
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Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Yeah right, forgot about Japan, Australia and North Korea.
US, Europe, Japan, Taiwan Australia, South Korea vs Rusia, China, North Korea and Iran
Anyone I am missing? I think Canada will fight on the US side. I wonder where we can fit India and Pakistan? They'll probably just have their own
war.
US, New Europe + Britain, Japan, 3/5 of Taiwan, 1/2 of South Korea, 1/2 of Middle East, 2/5 of South and Latin America.
Vs
Russia, Old Europe, 2/5 of Taiwan, China, 1/2 of Middle East, 3/5 of South and Latin America.
Undecided Canada, Australia, 1/2 of South Korea, Africa, India, Pakistan and the Vikings.
I think thats most of them.
EDIT: www.abovetopsecret.com...
Looks like this was a premature post, the exercise will not be held at Zhejiang.
[edit on 21-3-2005 by rapier28]
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reply posted on 21-3-2005 @ 01:09 PM by Muaddib
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Originally posted by ghostsoldier
And from my sources its basically 50:50, just as many people want Taiwan to stay part of China...
I just dont understand why there is such a big need to start WW3, for a matter of principal...
Not really, more and more people in Taiwan see themselves as Taiwanese and not Chinese. I have given links about this before, let me see if i can
find them again, and it is more than just proclaiming their independence on paper. Right now China has a lot of...illegal business in Taiwan, which
is one of the reasons the Taiwanese want independence, so these business can become lawful and be used for Taiwan's interests, and not China's
interests.
Here are a couple of links about this topic.
www.taiwandc.org...
Polls underscore the shift. The number of those who identify themselves as Taiwanese has surged from 17 percent of the population in 1992 to 43
percent four months ago, according to a survey at National Chengchi University. Those identifying themselves as "Chinese only" dropped from 26
percent to about 10 percent.
Excerpted from.
www.realcities.com...
TAIPEI, Taiwan -- Like almost all adults in Taiwan, Li Chuan-hsin grew up convinced that he was Chinese, that Taiwan was part of China and that
his government was destined to take back the mainland from the Communists. These lessons were drilled into him as a child in school, as a student in
college and as a young soldier in Taiwan's army.
But as a social studies teacher in Taipei's Xinpu National Elementary School, Li is passing on a different set of beliefs to his students. Ask the
children in his sixth-grade class if any of them are Chinese, and they just giggle and trade puzzled looks. Ask which of them are Taiwanese, and they
all shoot their arms into the air and shout, "Me!"
Textbooks that once covered only Chinese history and geography have been rewritten to focus more on Taiwan, and local dialects once banned in school
are now the subject of weekly classes. Maps of Taiwan have replaced those of China, and portraits of Chiang Kai-shek, the nationalist leader who moved
his government here after the Communist revolution of 1949, have disappeared from classrooms. The school even took down a sign telling students to
behave like "dignified and upstanding Chinese."
Excerpted from.
www.taiwandc.org...
[edit on 21-3-2005 by Muaddib]
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reply posted on 21-3-2005 @ 10:46 PM by rapier28
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Originally posted by Muaddib
Not really, more and more people in Taiwan see themselves as Taiwanese and not Chinese. I have given links about this before, let me see if i can
find them again, and it is more than just proclaiming their independence on paper. Right now China has a lot of...illegal business in Taiwan, which
is one of the reasons the Taiwanese want independence, so these business can become lawful and be used for Taiwan's interests, and not China's
interests.
[edit on 21-3-2005 by Muaddib]
This is moot.
Californians can think themselves Kalifornian.
Texans can think themselves Texans.
Hawaians can think themselves Hawaians. (Spelling)
Scottish can think themselves Scottish.
Welsh can think themselves Welsh.
-----
In the end, when conflict arises, it would not be a China V Taiwan scenario. Mainland China would woo the Nationalists. Giving them power in
Taiwan.
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reply posted on 24-3-2005 @ 10:55 PM by ghostsoldier
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...
I wish to ask my question again, because I feel it has not been answered...
Why is there such a need for Taiwan to become independant anyway? Is it merely a matter of principal, in my opinion it is...
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reply posted on 24-3-2005 @ 10:58 PM by 00PS
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Taiwan shouldn't be independant.
Should the Confederate States of the USA be allowed to be independant after they lost a civil war? No!
In the same sense, JiangKaiShek was the Leader of the Nationalist Party and lost a bloody civil war with the Community Party.
MaoZeDeng was the victor and JiangKaiShek saught refuge on an Island. They never claimed independence because the cannot be an indpendant state. They
are China's.
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