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British PM close to selling the UK out in negotiations with EU

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posted on Nov, 18 2020 @ 05:54 AM
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originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Southern Guardian

It's kind of cute you seem to think Boris is the one negotiating personally.



Exactly this. Boris isn't at the negotiations. He signs off on what is agreed but doesn't play a big role otherwise (apart from focusing minds on the fact that we are leaving).

I say that as a Remainer..........




posted on Nov, 18 2020 @ 06:17 AM
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a reply to: DBCowboy


The UK will have to rejoin the EU thanks to the Americans who voted for Biden because Biden won't do a trade deal with the UK to help them fight the EU.


Sorry mate, but despite what many Yanks may think you have absolutely no say in the matter.

Of course the UK would rather negotiate a deal with the EU but No Deal is better than a bad deal and it's totally irrelevant which arsehole is in The White House.

The UK will NOT be re-joining the EU regardless of what Biden might want.....quite frankly he can go and # himself, as can Trump.

No US President should ever be allowed to dictate UK policy on anything.


The Brits who voted for Brexit should be seriously pissed off at every Biden voter right now.


That was a choice America made for itself and had sod all to do with us over here.
As far as I can tell they are both thoroughly unfit to serve as POTUS - for various reasons, two sides of the same coin if you ask me.

You guys really need to sort things out pronto because every day this drags on the more respect and influence the US is losing throughout the world.

But at least you are providing us all some much needed light relief from all the other crap that is going on in the world.

Thank you.

edit on 18/11/20 by Freeborn because: grammar



posted on Nov, 18 2020 @ 06:21 AM
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a reply to: ScepticScot





The changes to the withdrawal agreement were a unilateral change to a international agreement made by the same government


Article 38 of The Witdrawl Agreement states.. "It is recognised that the Parliament of the United Kingdom is sovereign."

Article 38 section 3 states..... " Accordingly, nothing in this Act derogates from the sovereignty of the Parliament of the United Kingdom"

That is why The EU have not commenced legal proceedings against The UK as they would not have a case that would stand up.



posted on Nov, 18 2020 @ 06:29 AM
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originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: ScepticScot





The changes to the withdrawal agreement were a unilateral change to a international agreement made by the same government


Article 38 of The Witdrawl Agreement states.. "It is recognised that the Parliament of the United Kingdom is sovereign."

Article 38 section 3 states..... " Accordingly, nothing in this Act derogates from the sovereignty of the Parliament of the United Kingdom"

That is why The EU have not commenced legal proceedings against The UK as they would not have a case that would stand up.





They haven't commenced legal action because.
A. Nothing has actually happened yet.
B. International law is pretty weak and generally relies on good faith. Something that the UK government has now shown itself to be lacking just when we need international agreements most.



posted on Nov, 18 2020 @ 06:33 AM
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a reply to: Southern Guardian

As each day passes even Boris's most staunch supporters must be realising just how out of his depth he is.

I've been saying for a couple of days or so now that I think he's used this 'self-isolating' scare as an opportunity to duck out of the public eye for a bit due to the fall out over Dominic Cummings, Cain and the role his partner has played in their axing.

Just who is running this country?
It seems increasingly like Carrie Symonds is in control at the moment and its pretty evident that at no point during Boris's tenure as PM has he actually been calling the shots.

As for negotiations with the EU: they've been doomed from Day One.
The EU have taken such a bullying and uncompromising approach that they bound to fail.
They are inherently dictatorial and are determined to be seen to punish the UK for exercising their Right to Self-Determination and wishing to leave govern themselves.
They also wish to deter any other constituent nations from doing the same - dissatisfaction with the EU is increasing.

There really shouldn't be any great or unsolvable issues.
The UK and the EU need to trade with each other.
We still have many shared interests and concerns.
A Free Trade Agreement shouldn't be that hard to negotiate providing both sides are realistic and are willing compromise - the art of diplomacy and trade agreements since time immemorial.

We need a suspension/abolition of party politics and a National Government appointed immediately and we need urgent and radical reform of our electoral and parliamentary procedures.



posted on Nov, 18 2020 @ 06:39 AM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: ScepticScot





The changes to the withdrawal agreement were a unilateral change to a international agreement made by the same government


Article 38 of The Witdrawl Agreement states.. "It is recognised that the Parliament of the United Kingdom is sovereign."

Article 38 section 3 states..... " Accordingly, nothing in this Act derogates from the sovereignty of the Parliament of the United Kingdom"

That is why The EU have not commenced legal proceedings against The UK as they would not have a case that would stand up.





They haven't commenced legal action because.
A. Nothing has actually happened yet.
B. International law is pretty weak and generally relies on good faith. Something that the UK government has now shown itself to be lacking just when we need international agreements most.




Well The EU demanded that The UK withdrawl The Bill by the end of last September, but we didn't. So why haven't they commenced legal proceedings.

Also The EU knows all about breaking international laws



EU violates international law in Western Sahara


www.wsrw.org...

The pot calling the kettle black.



posted on Nov, 18 2020 @ 06:43 AM
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a reply to: ScepticScot


The UK seems to want all benefits of single market membership without agreeing to the rules. See recent debacle over Ireland as an example.


Which debacle is that?

The Irish people don't want a hard border.
The Northern Irish people don't want a hard border.
The UK government doesn't want a hard border.

The EU with its refusal to compromise is insisting on a hard border unless it gets its way on everything on the table.

The 'Irish debacle' as you call it is one of the EU's and the EU's alone making.



posted on Nov, 18 2020 @ 06:44 AM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot
And I could say you are parroting anti EU line (of which there is a lot more in UK press).


You could say so, but you would be wrong. I am not anti-EU, just bewildered by their attitude towards trade with their closest and most significant neighbour. At this rate there will not be a basic deal, which is sad.



posted on Nov, 18 2020 @ 06:52 AM
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a reply to: Flavian


I wouldn't be at all surprised if that influences Biden's thinking.....


You are assuming there that Joe Biden CAN think.....



posted on Nov, 18 2020 @ 07:30 AM
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As a leaver, I was a bit worried when Dom got the push, it seemed to indicate an argument between him and the PM about how much to give in the negotiations.

Since then though, I've read a few reports that it was fatty Johnson playing hardball.

The remainers are all still trying to stop us leaving in any meaningful way.

Personally I'd rather get out on no deal and work from there rather than tie us into any of the EU s stupid conditions.



posted on Nov, 18 2020 @ 08:12 AM
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originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: ScepticScot
And I could say you are parroting anti EU line (of which there is a lot more in UK press).


You could say so, but you would be wrong. I am not anti-EU, just bewildered by their attitude towards trade with their closest and most significant neighbour. At this rate there will not be a basic deal, which is sad.


Yet any one who disagrees with your assessment is parroting the pro EU line?

As stated already the EU is going to look after EU interests and UK will look after UK interests. That's what happens when you leave.

What we can't expect is that the EU will give near full access to single market without us actually following the rules.



posted on Nov, 18 2020 @ 08:14 AM
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originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: ScepticScot


The UK seems to want all benefits of single market membership without agreeing to the rules. See recent debacle over Ireland as an example.


Which debacle is that?

The Irish people don't want a hard border.
The Northern Irish people don't want a hard border.
The UK government doesn't want a hard border.

The EU with its refusal to compromise is insisting on a hard border unless it gets its way on everything on the table.

The 'Irish debacle' as you call it is one of the EU's and the EU's alone making.



The lack of border was largely because of shared membership of the EU.

We decided to leave (Without any clear plan). Sorry the fault is entirely on the UK.



posted on Nov, 18 2020 @ 08:15 AM
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originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: ScepticScot





The changes to the withdrawal agreement were a unilateral change to a international agreement made by the same government


Article 38 of The Witdrawl Agreement states.. "It is recognised that the Parliament of the United Kingdom is sovereign."

Article 38 section 3 states..... " Accordingly, nothing in this Act derogates from the sovereignty of the Parliament of the United Kingdom"

That is why The EU have not commenced legal proceedings against The UK as they would not have a case that would stand up.





They haven't commenced legal action because.
A. Nothing has actually happened yet.
B. International law is pretty weak and generally relies on good faith. Something that the UK government has now shown itself to be lacking just when we need international agreements most.




Well The EU demanded that The UK withdrawl The Bill by the end of last September, but we didn't. So why haven't they commenced legal proceedings.

Also The EU knows all about breaking international laws



EU violates international law in Western Sahara


www.wsrw.org...

The pot calling the kettle black.



Already answered.



posted on Nov, 18 2020 @ 08:40 AM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot
Yet any one who disagrees with your assessment is parroting the pro EU line?


No, that's not the case. However, your response could have come from Barnier himself, so a parrot you may be!

If a "No Deal" is the catastrophe that some people seem to want, then we (in the UK) can vote out the politicians. In the EU the technocrats have no accountability except to themselves and will be in place irrespective of the consequences to the citizens in the EU, who will also face a catastrophe.

Note, I don't think it will be catastrophic for the UK if there is no deal. I base this on the fact that all the doom predictions have not come to pass!
edit on 18/11/2020 by paraphi because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 18 2020 @ 08:50 AM
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a reply to: ScepticScot

I understand why there was very little border control when we were in the EU.

But the point is that the EU point blank refuse to compromise unless they get their own way.....they are trying to use it as a bargaining tool to get their own way rather than looking after the interests and wishes of the people of Northern Ireland and RoI.

Please set aside your dislike of the UK and the fact that you are a Remainer and recognise that the EU is dictatorial and uncompromising in its approach and would much rather threaten the peace process and UK/RoI relations rather than come to a common sense agreement that everyone else wants.



posted on Nov, 18 2020 @ 09:06 AM
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double
edit on 18-11-2020 by ScepticScot because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 18 2020 @ 09:06 AM
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originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: ScepticScot
Yet any one who disagrees with your assessment is parroting the pro EU line?


No, that's not the case. However, your response could have come from Barnier himself, so a parrot you may be!

If a "No Deal" is the catastrophe that some people seem to want, then we (in the UK) can vote out the politicians. In the EU the technocrats have no accountability except to themselves and will be in place irrespective of the consequences to the citizens in the UK, who will also face a catastrophe.

Note, I don't think it will be catastrophic for the UK if there is no deal. I base this on the fact that all the doom predictions have not come to pass!


A catastrophe is very unlikely. However it is very likely we will be poorer, maybe a lot poorer.

When did you last vote for a UK civil servant? Still with a hereditary head of state, unelected second chamber and non proportional electoral system I am sure UK will be much more accountable...
edit on 18-11-2020 by ScepticScot because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 18 2020 @ 09:18 AM
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originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: ScepticScot

I understand why there was very little border control when we were in the EU.

But the point is that the EU point blank refuse to compromise unless they get their own way.....they are trying to use it as a bargaining tool to get their own way rather than looking after the interests and wishes of the people of Northern Ireland and RoI.

Please set aside your dislike of the UK and the fact that you are a Remainer and recognise that the EU is dictatorial and uncompromising in its approach and would much rather threaten the peace process and UK/RoI relations rather than come to a common sense agreement that everyone else wants.



Set aside your dislike of the EU and fact you are a leaver and you would see the UK has been at least as guilty as the EU.

The UK position sadly has been driven as much by internal UK politics , particularly Tory party politics, than any sense of reality or what is best for UK.



posted on Nov, 18 2020 @ 11:23 AM
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a reply to: ScepticScot

So how is caving in to the EU's every demand and letting them still have a say and influence in UK matters in the UK's best interests?



posted on Nov, 18 2020 @ 11:31 AM
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originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: ScepticScot

So how is caving in to the EU's every demand and letting them still have a say and influence in UK matters in the UK's best interests?




No one said it is.

Neither is prioritising internal Tory party divisions over agreeing a reasonable deal.

The idea that the EU is intransigent and UK is making all the compromises is false.




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