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The M.I.B. Contradiction

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posted on Nov, 9 2020 @ 08:15 PM
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Hello, ATS. I know I don't post a whole lot these days, but I've had a topic bouncing around in my head and I'd like to put it out here on the table.

To introduce my thread here,
I am a person who has witnessed the MIB phenomenon firsthand. I do not have an explanation for it. My encounter(s) did not include any threats of any sorts or kinds, whatsoever. This is not a debunking thread, but a thread that poses a question, or, depending on the reader's perspective, an answer, an answer which may debunk certain encounters.

So, to business--
Many Men In Black encounters and reports, particularly those relating to UFO or paranormal type experiences, include some variation of a threat, usually urging the witness to keep their mouths shut about a related experience and/or sighting. These people then proceed to write about the sighting, and, of course, the ensuing MIB encounter, sharing it across the globe.

Herein lies our contradiction!:
If they (the MIBs) threatened the witness to Not Dare Speak Up at all about their experience, thus terrifying the victim, er, witness, out of their wits, then why do these witnesses feel so comfortable going right on up ahead and telling the world about their experience, directly against the orders of the MIBs?
Is it a matter of people disobeying authority just for rebellion's sake? Is it a cry for help, as in, "if I tell people, they'll watch out for me and everyone will know about the MIBs so they can't hurt me because that would blow their cover" or maybe even a result of shock, or disbelief? Or is it simply a sign that that particular story was fabricated... made up... whole cloth...?
An interesting MIB encounter from a Mary Hyre, December of 1967, included an interesting detail:



They asked her what she would do if someone ordered her to stop writing about UFOs. She basically said that she'd continue anyway. The two men glanced at each other. Mary went back to her work and when she looked up again, they were gone.


"She'd continue anyway."

And later:



Later that same afternoon (Dec 22nd 1967) another strange man walked into Hyre's office. The man introduced himself as "Jack Brown". He was 5.7ft with black piercing eyes, unruly black hair and long fingers. His complexion was even darker than that of the two previous visitors and he as well had eastern features. He wore an ill-fitting cheap black suit with an oddly knotted tie. He claimed to be a UFO researcher and once again asked Hyre what she would do if someone asked her to stop writing her articles. Mary asked if he was with the two men that she'd talked with earlier and he said he wasn't.

Source: themothman.fandom.com...

This makes the reader/researcher wonder if the MIBs go through the whole "or else" speech just to see what happens, to throw spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks.

Are there any documented instances where someone was genuinely silenced, as in, an MIB carried through with whatever it was they were threatening to do to the poor witness in the first place? Maybe, maybe not. It would appear that they're not seeking to silence, harm, or otherwise damage the witness--just to enact some degree of control.
Some witnesses, including Mary Hyre again, have reported a sense of dread that the MIB are "coming for them," whatever that means, and they never do. It's easy to wonder if the MIBs are simply playing a mentalist game to get the witnesses to feel cornered, caged, and helpless--to strip them of any sense of control, to psychologically torment them with a constant sense of dread in attempts to control them. It seldom silences the witness...
see this letter from Hyre:
www.johnkeel.com...
Or the case from Dr. Albert K. Bender, who was harassed, even after shutting down his UFO research, with mysterious phone calls and other phenomena up until the end of his life in 2002;


In 1955, his research was about to yield serious fruit, as he prepared to unveil a paper that would prove the US Government had — to one degree or another — covered up proof of UFOs. He planned to publish his findings in the Space Review. That was, until he was visited by the Men In Black. Bender claims that three men, dressed in all black, visited him at his home and warned him against pursuing the topic of UFOs any further. The men left Bender scared for his life, and he immediately shut down all his research and the Flying Saucer Bureau. Many people who knew him claim that Bender was a changed man after this encounter. His later works were rambly — almost unreadable — and he seemed to live his life in constant anxiety and terror. He purported to still receive mysterious phone calls, with nobody on the other end, until the end of his life in 2002.

Source: thoughtcatalog.com...
Yet he told people about the MIBs and everything, despite having "shut down his research."

Another case from 2000 in Canada followed a guy who was interrogated by a couple olive-skinned MIBs who asked him who else he had told about his sighting, to which the witness replied that he had told a website for UFO phenomena. They asked him, "what's that?" The witness replied that it was "on the web," to which they again asked him, "what's that?"
"It's the internet." The witness replied. This evoked from one of the men,
"That's communications."

Well, it's still, to this day, on the web. (ufobc.ca...) Why haven't the MIBs done anything to stop that spread? Hack the site? Order a cease and desist to the unsuspecting poor innocent site? What about the people who've shared it, circulated it, retold it, such as myself, right now? Do they just not care? And if they don't care, why go through the trouble to go on and question the witness about where they're spreading the info, if it really doesn't matter?
Too many questions, I know. Here are some answers... at least, in my mind.

They didn't care because they're smart enough to know that nobody with any sense of power over anything on this planet would be able to do anything with the witness's reports. They'd read it, say something like "bahh, humbug" and then put it down. End of story. Reads like a fable, circulates like a tall tale, fades into the white noise like old news. I'm willing to bet their response would have been different if the witness had replied, "Yeah, I told the military, the DOD, the president/prime minister/grand high poobah/some blonde alien I met the other day at a UFO fly in/etc..."
I'm wondering if a different answer would have evoked a different response. Maybe it's the fact that some witnesses have no evidence that anyone important would believe. Maybe they only work hard to silence the hard evidence.
Either this contradiction says something about human nature, the nature of the MIBs, or simply renders some classic cases pure balderdash.

Food for thought.
edit on 11/9/20 by servovenford because: re-arranging a sentence



posted on Nov, 9 2020 @ 08:46 PM
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There is a story to the video, it's just that I'm heading for bed right now.
edit on 9-11-2020 by smurfy because: Text.



posted on Nov, 9 2020 @ 09:41 PM
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a reply to: servovenford

I don't know.

But little red wagon theory says that what you think the
point of the exercise is, that's not actually the point.

Ineptly threatened people often are often MORE prone
not less prone to spill the beans. The 'threat' gives a
sense of reality, to a situation that might have been
a complete fake or coverup..

It's like telling people not to think about the pink
elephant in the room..

so certainly could be from the CIA psyop manual.

Or the goal could be to terrorize the subject.. and
that's a common goal, if you go with metaphysical
interpretations.

I myself am not an expert on this topic.. i've read all
the usual literature (tobin's spirit guide etc LOL).

Interesting topic.

Kev



posted on Nov, 9 2020 @ 10:01 PM
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originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: servovenford

Ineptly threatened people often are often MORE prone
not less prone to spill the beans. The 'threat' gives a
sense of reality, to a situation that might have been
a complete fake or coverup..

It's like telling people not to think about the pink
elephant in the room..

so certainly could be from the CIA psyop manual.



That's a good point too. It certainly could be. Which, IMO, could to a more terrestrial origin of the MIBs in some of the cases I'm thinking of (minus the Canadian and Hyre cases)...

In this case, though, you'd wonder if they (the MIBs) are almost wanting the witness to say something--like reverse psychology... at least in some cases.



posted on Nov, 9 2020 @ 10:08 PM
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I'll make things even more murky for you.
During the 1950s-60s when the US Navy was actively investing reports of UFOs independently of Project Blue Book. Many of these Naval Investigations took place during the winter months, which coen-sided with a lot of the MIB reports. Remember that Winter Naval Uniforms look similar to what the MIB clothing reportedly wore.

So why it doesn't explain all of the reports, it does provide evidence enough to remove some of the alien theory MIBs in favor of the MIB being US Naval Investigators.



posted on Nov, 9 2020 @ 10:23 PM
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a reply to: servovenford

The MIB topic, of course, is fascinating.

But as they say, “ he protests too much,” the MIB seems to be so over the top that maybe they're using reverse psychology and want people to run their mouths.


I think on a spooky level, these MIB are out of the 1897 airship flaps where a lot of swarthy men were said to be aboard those ships.

Check out Keels books the Eight Tower and Operation Trojan Horse.

Much of it seems like a psyche game played on us and NOT by the government.



posted on Nov, 9 2020 @ 10:29 PM
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a reply to: Guyfriday

I concur.



posted on Nov, 9 2020 @ 10:31 PM
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a reply to: Willtell

My FAVORTE MIB reports are those where the 'MIB'
look like they have extra joints, weird skin and
eyes and look like they just do NOT have normal
bodies.

My favorite of all, was when a 'MIB' was terrified
of a microwave oven.

That REALLY convinced me of the energy critter
interpretation, back in the day, when I had
"plasma bias" as some universal answer.

Kev



posted on Nov, 9 2020 @ 10:53 PM
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It does look like a psych game, doesn't it?


originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: Willtell

My favorite of all, was when a 'MIB' was terrified
of a microwave oven.



Me too. Interestingly, the guys in the Canada case I mentioned in the OP would not go near the witness's microwave oven.
The 3rd guy comes in later in the article and asks the witness to "turn it off" -- the witness then unplugged it.
Later, to the same witness, came two more different visitors, who asked him to please unplug the microwave oven.



Two men appeared at the door of his residence. They produced wallets, one black, one brown, containing photo I.D. that stated they were from the department of Canadian Air Defence. One was a Mr. Samuel, the other Mr. Graeme (spelling?) They asked to come inside. Roy extended his hand, neither of the men offered to shake hands, they simply ignored it. Moving into the house took them through the kitchen area, but they halted on seeing the microwave, as its position required they pass it. After some questioning Roy lowered a portion of a counter and they carefully sidled through the extra space.


Later,



This person stated his name was Mr. Smith (how original!). Roy asked him for I.D. and he produced a driver’s license with his photo on it (wearing dark glasses?) giving an address in Albuquerque, New Mexico. He was wearing a dark charcoal suit, white shirt and black tie. He had a black fedora, "like gangsters wear" said Roy, and very large feet, "size 13 or 14", like Roy's previous visitors. His shoes were black and shiny, with no signs of dirt on them at all. He was between 4 foot 8 inches and 5 feet tall. "Just a little guy, very skinny, very pale-skinned with very long fingers, he was wearing black wrap-around glasses with silver frames". Roy extended his hand, but Mr. Smith ignored it. Entering the house he commented upon the Chinese carved walking stick in the hall saying how interesting it was. On reaching the microwave oven he stopped and asked Roy to turn it off. Roy unplugged it.


ufobc.ca...

And now for the 3rd visit,



In early January 2001, two peculiar strangers again visited the witness to a previous UFO encounter. These two were different from the others. They were at least six-feet tall, very bony, with head, hands and feet out of proportion to the rest of the body. They wore gray suits that seemed to be "oily", had black ties and hats plus wrap around sunglasses that they never took off. When questioned about the glasses they remarked that they could see perfectly well. Their ears stood out from their heads and their skin was pale white, whereas their fingernails were gray in color. They never removed the hats during their visit. And throughout the whole time only one of them spoke. When asked for ID's they displayed "silver" cases that contained a photo an unusual symbol, plus their names in small print. Upon entering the kitchen they asked the witness to please unplug the microwave, they also told him to turn the computer off.

www.phantomsandmonsters.com...

Notice, however, that nobody seems to be threatening the witness. The only thing that happened was what I mentioned in the OP where the first two MIBs asked the witness who else he had told about the sighting.
This story seems to want to come back to life... maybe even I'm part of their game, designated to spread this stuff like warm butter. Ha!

I strongly believe the most believable cases are the ones that don't include direct threats or terrorizing behavior. When it comes to MIB reports, the ones that stick out to me as the most "real" are the ones where they mysteriously appear, do nothing exciting, then disappear, as if to observe the witness, note their reaction, and go on their merry way.

I do believe the ones with the threats are often most likely to have terrestrial origins, like the Winter Naval guys Guyfriday brought up.



posted on Nov, 9 2020 @ 10:55 PM
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On the topic of microwave ovens, the MIBs also seem to have physical effects on witnesses-- migraines, flash burns, etc. Whatever radiation, plasma, etc they may be using could be affected by the microwave ovens, or affect the microwave ovens in a way that would blow their cover: I'm picturing these guys walking past the microwave oven, exciting the magnetron, this immediately alarming the witness, effectively blowing the mission. It's a thought.



posted on Nov, 9 2020 @ 10:56 PM
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a reply to: Willtell

This reminds me of the mystery airships of 1917 in Salt Lake City Utah. Leon Bone of the Bureau of Investigation was set to investigate the sightings, but when he did he uncovered a Secret Society ran by a guy named John Van Volkenberg. Leon Bone was discreated by his supervisor due to Bone joining this Secret Society in order to infiltrate it.

While the Airships were never solved as to what they were or who operated them, the Secret Society was exposed as being some kind of Mormon Secret Service and was removed from the case. Later a Bureau man named Robert Whitson came in to follow up on the airship reports, he blamed the reports on the Germans, and had a judge declare the Secret Society members as mentally ill, then had them committed for a few months. After all this the case just disappeared, but the mystery airships were still seen for a few more years after all this mess happened.

At the time Members of this Secret Society had claimed to be members of both the Mormon Church as well as Free Masons, and would wear nice formal dress clothes when talking to people that made reports or spoke to publicly about the airship lights. Early MIB reports, maybe?



posted on Nov, 10 2020 @ 09:13 AM
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a reply to: servovenford

the MIB ARE the plasma/projections.

That's what I used to believe as probable.

And I still consider that a good assumption..

given that they could materialize / dematerialize

at will.. and their old cars too.

don't you find it interesting, that in some of the
reports, their clothing and vehicles seemed taken
from a a previous time slice?

I don't think these guys (when they aren't simple
human agents) ARE the same phenomenon as the
'BTUFO' I summoned.

I haven't proof, but there seem to be possible
correlations.

It's almost like we are fish in a fish tank, and
we get poked at, for psychological reseaerch.

Kev



posted on Nov, 10 2020 @ 09:25 AM
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a reply to: Guyfriday

Utterly fascinating!

As I like to say, if you take the occult out of UFOlogy,
you are left only with simple misidentifications and
government psyops.

there seems to be NO UFOlogy or UFOS without the
'occult' (misunderstood physics) and the tricks of
the occult practitioners.

These occult guys are creeping around EVERWHERE
eh?


edit on 10-11-2020 by KellyPrettyBear because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 10 2020 @ 10:20 AM
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a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I think the consensus in the 1917 Salt Lake City case is that the cult showed up after the fact. It may have formed through a person trying to take advantage of the sightings, or possibly was formed as a way to distract from the sightings. While the Bureau of Investigation never did issue their findings on the sightings, they did make note that the cult seemed to be neither a nefarious group, nor did it really have any actual connections to the sighting of the mystery airships. Though blaming Germany on the mystery airship seemed to just make a covenant case in order to just close the case.

The cult member were taking reports and putting pressure on people to find out what they saw, and they didn't seem to know what was going on either with the sole exception of their leader Volkenberg.

So was the 1917 event an MIB event, or not?



posted on Nov, 10 2020 @ 10:20 AM
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originally posted by: Guyfriday
I'll make things even more murky for you.
During the 1950s-60s when the US Navy was actively investing reports of UFOs independently of Project Blue Book. Many of these Naval Investigations took place during the winter months, which coen-sided with a lot of the MIB reports. Remember that Winter Naval Uniforms look similar to what the MIB clothing reportedly wore.

So why it doesn't explain all of the reports, it does provide evidence enough to remove some of the alien theory MIBs in favor of the MIB being US Naval Investigators.


Such a simple, mundane and boring explanation; but most likely completely on the money, for the most part.

edit on p211013202400 by pigsy2400 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 10 2020 @ 10:24 AM
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a reply to: pigsy2400

I'd imagine that something like 80 to 95% of all 'MIB'
have a prosaic explanation.

I read an article on it once, maybe Nick Redfern?
He even identified a proposed training school in
Virginia that graduated these guys.



posted on Nov, 10 2020 @ 10:29 AM
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a reply to: Guyfriday

Dunno!

In a cult, there's usually only a small handful of people
who REALLY know what's going on.

In classical 'spirituality' too.. the 'guru might collect
Bentleys and underage girls, but the 'stooges' and the
'marks' (the followers) rarely get any such details or
even if they do, they 'double down' and deny for all
their worth,

as after they've sold their house and given it to the
'guru' they are too embarrassed to wake up.

Anything else you have on Volkenberg would be
interesting!

BTW.. not to compare that historical group with
modern events, but it's been a very open secret
that 'SWR' was heavily influenced by Mormons
as well. To even get an invitation to the ranch
you pretty much had to be a Mormon.

People are seldom who you think they are on
the surface, needless to say.

Kev



posted on Nov, 10 2020 @ 11:30 AM
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a reply to: KellyPrettyBear


Or swarthy slant-eyed orientals! I like those ones.

Though the MIB have been described as all kinds of weird-looking

My take on that is this:

Go outside right now and look at the average run of human beings and you'll see weirdness all over.

You'll see the same things regularly ascribed to the MIB.

The weird look is a psychological thing and not reality. The fact is human beings are generally weird looking and not generally attractive.



posted on Nov, 10 2020 @ 11:37 AM
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There are cases of UFO conspiracy theorists who have died under mysterious circumstances. No idea if these same individuals also made claims around MIB. Might be an interesting correlation....or not.



posted on Nov, 10 2020 @ 11:38 AM
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Another thing to consider is that we overdue science’s abilities and knowledge.

They don’t know everything.

Just maybe there is a civilization in some form nearer to us than we think, and they do have what we would consider occult powers.

Of course, I don’t know this, nor do I necessarily believe it, but neither does “ science” know it one way or the other. And neither can alternative “ science” prove it.

We just can’t accept uncertainty.







 
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