What I think the Masons part plays in the NWO . . .

Originally posted by Researcher
WHO ARE YOU to say "masonry does this and this, and teaches this and this"?? Because you read the opinion of one or two authors!?!? I hate to break it to you, but you are NOWHERE NEAR qualified enough to be claiming the things that you are. The only thing that is "downright freaky" here is the fact that someone that knows absolutely nothing about the fraternity is posting like he's an expert!"

Missed a couple of anger management classes, eh?

I just find it humorous that you speak of your claims LIKE THEY WERE FACT. They are lies, pure and simple. You have NO IDEA what Freemasonry is because you are not a member. Can you just admit that?

It's laughable that you read a couple of quotes, assume it's true, and make yourself an expert on the subject. If you can find PROOF of any of the things you read, then maybe we can have a serious conversation.

Researcher, keep your lies coming.

I prefer your kind of integrity any day.

Is it a lie to say a Freemason is a tool?
So do Freemasons themselves admit they are told they have a higher duty than the rest of society? Of course they are, its what makes them special.

And it is this higher duty to "Do as you are directed by the Higher Will", meaning we won't tell you what the Higher Will is, but if you seek more Light in Freemasonry...

Its such an obedience play.

All the veiling, just to tell a Mason "Obey your Superiors", veiled in allegory, veiled in wisdom, veiled in tradition, veiled in belief in a supreme BEing (a supreme force, or believing in the Void doesn't cut it).

And if it wasn't true, Johnny Karnes wouldn't be so busy in his Masonic rat race trying to climb to the top, tired of obeying others, he wants a taste of the power himself. Did it ever occur to you Karnesy, to not give your power away in the first place? Or is it "all going to be worth it"?

Originally posted by akilles
Researcher, keep your lies coming.

Nice that you recognize them for what they are...lies.

I prefer your kind of integrity any day.

Tells us a LOT about you Akilles.

Is it a lie to say a Freemason is a tool?

Some Freemasons MAY be tools. It's a LIE to say "Freemasons are tools"

So do Freemasons themselves admit they are told they have a higher duty than the rest of society?

No, we just believe we're supposed to LIVE UP to that duty.

Of course they are, its what makes them special.

Ah! The root of the problem. You don't feel special. Awwwwww!

And it is this higher duty to "Do as you are directed by the Higher Will", meaning we won't tell you what the Higher Will is, but if you seek more Light in Freemasonry...

Pathetic nonsense. Anyone who believes that should have a lobotomy.

Its such an obedience play.

How would you know? What with you never having BEEN one and all? How do you know so much about an organization that wouldn't accept you as a member????

All the veiling, just to tell a Mason "Obey your Superiors", veiled in allegory, veiled in wisdom, veiled in tradition, veiled in belief in a supreme BEing (a supreme force, or believing in the Void doesn't cut it).

"Obey your superiors..." Never heard that one.

And if it wasn't true,

...which it isn't...

Johnny Karnes

That's John to you. Or better yet Senrak on this forum. Only my close friends call me Johnny.

wouldn't be so busy in his Masonic rat race trying to climb to the top, tired of obeying others, he wants a taste of the power himself.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. (Sorry...I couldn't contain myself...THAT was funny)

Did it ever occur to you Karnesy, to not give your power away in the first place? Or is it "all going to be worth it"?

Did it ever occur to you that you're delusional? You REALLY should seek professional help. You've actually begun to believe the garbage you put on this site.

Not surprised...since you take so much stock in the fruitcake David Icke....

Go figure...

Originally posted by sebatwerk
I dont think anybody would disagree with you there... just depends on what "aims" youre talking about.

Only aims are whatever Freemasons do in their lodges and grand lodges.

Originally posted by sebatwerk
There's the problem, though. There is no "upper echelon" of freemasonry, no inner circle, etc. etc. masonry is made up of many different organizations that are all in recognition with each other, and some that aren't. Some groups might have different interest, but none can represent Freemasonry as a whole.

That's too bad. It seem that Freemasonry is no longer an united, tightly integrated secret society. Too many irregular and independent Freemason lodges out there, which make it too loose, too spread out and weak. Which explained the decline and lack of interests in Freemasonry among young men. For them, it's all about networking and connections across the planet, not nations.

Originally posted by sebatwerk
Here you go. I thought, for a second, that we were having a serious conversation about the reality of masonry, and I was enjoying it. Please tell us where you got the above info, so that you feel comfortable claiming it as fact. What makes you so knowledgeable about the fraternity, to the point that you know more about it than its own members?

Two things you need to realize:

1 - A religion is not a group of people having the same beliefs, worshipping the same Creator, discussing issues pertaining to their faith. It is an organized society of believers and followers, whether it be secret or public.
2 - Freemasonry is an organized society engaged in secret rituals and affairs conducted by those who believe and follow the creeds and practices of Freemasonry originating from the days of King Solomon and the building of the First Temple.

The very reason why Freemasonry attracts all people of different faiths is due to its creeds and secret esoteric rituals. It is the standard banner for the religion of the Light (to be the light over all religions, "illuminating" the world in the grips of uncertainty, chaos and fear).

Originally posted by sebatwerk
That's surprising, considering that so much supposed power and control is available to people who become Freemasons

Hmm, is that an affirmation of what Freemasonry would have provide to prospective new members?

I have nothing against Freemasonry. I just wish it would be a more tightly integrated and completely consolidated fraternal society with instant connections, access to power, wealth, influence and knowledge esoterically, with political and financial clout, moral and spiritual responsibility to humanity and to illuminate the planet. A powerful order to be reckoned and respected.

Currently, it is too loose, too irregular, too spread out, too critical or paranoid of each other's lodge, declining and losing members to old age and death. In fact, Freemasonry is dying and nobody's joining (except for the sympathetic and dedicated few).

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by Hunting Veritas

Originally posted by sebatwerk

What gives you this so-called RIGHT to know what PRIVATE GROUPS are talking about inn PRIVATE MEETINGS!?!?!? It is THEIR private business, and you have NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER to demand that they telll you what they are meeting about!

[edit on 30-3-2005 by sebatwerk]

Ok so you like the idea of high ranking political leaders, CEOs, etc. are behind closed talking about your rent, food, water and lights the way WE should live and behave and to some extent think. Please do not insult my intelligence on this subject WHY should these people have the right to total classification of the subjects they talk about ESPECIALLY the builderbergs.

What exactly would they want to hide from us?? WHY?? At the end of the day if they have nothing to hide why do they keep hiding it from us????

Explain that! NO BS

You have NO IDEA what they're talking about and, I'm sure, that unless youre a politican or economist, you wouldnt even care. What makes you so paranoid to think they're talking about CONTROLLING YOU!?!?! They are a PRIVATE GROUP who does not answer to YOU, they can do whatever they damn want to do, they owe you nothing. Don't be so pretencious.

OK they may not answer to me or even 1000 of me but they will have to do something "if" millions of people worldwide find out whats going on! Then what are they gonna do then. Convince the world these so called "personal meetings" are not taking place or out right say what are doing??

I do not think they are trying to control me at all, I just don't believe that people of such power should have this sort of privacy to say what they like without someone contradicting them, as this may affect us all. For good or for worse they decide NOT YOU! So why should they have this privacy why not do what we do and discuss on a public forum of political and economical problems and solutions. At least then we may see what is being said and also be recorded, maybe we could get a say in what they do too.

Originally posted by Hunting Veritas
OK they may not answer to me or even 1000 of me but they will have to do something "if" millions of people worldwide find out whats going on! Then what are they gonna do then. Convince the world these so called "personal meetings" are not taking place or out right say what are doing??

I do not think they are trying to control me at all, I just don't believe that people of such power should have this sort of privacy to say what they like without someone contradicting them, as this may affect us all. For good or for worse they decide NOT YOU! So why should they have this privacy why not do what we do and discuss on a public forum of political and economical problems and solutions. At least then we may see what is being said and also be recorded, maybe we could get a say in what they do too.

What are you going to do? Get together a million people and go storm a Grand Lodge meeting? You'll give those old farts heart attacks.

The WHOLE PROBLEM here is that you (and those like you) actually BELIEVE that the Masons have some sort of "power" over world events, or government, yadda yadda.

....and they DON'T.

They DON'T

They DON'T

They DON'T

They DON'T

Originally posted by Hunting Veritas
OK they may not answer to me or even 1000 of me but they will have to do something "if" millions of people worldwide find out whats going on! Then what are they gonna do then. Convince the world these so called "personal meetings" are not taking place or out right say what are doing??

I don't think they care what people think.

I do not think they are trying to control me at all, I just don't believe that people of such power should have this sort of privacy to say what they like without someone contradicting them, as this may affect us all. For good or for worse they decide NOT YOU! So why should they have this privacy why not do what we do and discuss on a public forum of political and economical problems and solutions. At least then we may see what is being said and also be recorded, maybe we could get a say in what they do too.

WHY NOT??? This is a FREE country where people are allowed to assemble prvately for ANYTHING they want! Just because they are public figures means NOTHING, they owe you NO explanation of what they do in private!

You have NO idea if what they are discussing affects you one bit, so quit assuming! What's more, these people discuss issues relating to you OPENLY all the time! Why does it bother you that they discuss their own concerns privately?

Reality check, which will be wasted on those with a weak grasp of reality...

These quotes are from books written about Freemasonry, by Freemasons, for Freemasons.

Kindly post an alternate explanation for the things written in clear plain English by your fellow travelling men who work for Hiram.

What these authors have in common:
33d degree Freemasons;
Who believe and espouse some truly strange things;
And, according to Freemasons, they lie like a rug.

Maybe a lifetime spent in an organization that "always hales, ever conceals and never reveals" the truth made them pathological liars?

Originally posted by Researcher
Reality check, which will be wasted on those with a weak grasp of reality...

These quotes are from books written about Freemasonry, by Freemasons, for Freemasons.

Kindly post an alternate explanation for the things written in clear plain English by your fellow travelling men who work for Hiram.

What these authors have in common:
33d degree Freemasons;
Who believe and espouse some truly strange things;
And, according to Freemasons, they lie like a rug.

Maybe a lifetime spent in an organization that "always hales, ever conceals and never reveals" the truth made them pathological liars?

You just dont get it, do you Researcher? Those authors are only giving THEIR PERSONAL TAKE on Freemasonry. So it doesn't matter what THEY THINK masonry is about, some masons have had some truly strange ideas about the Craft, it's about what it really is. And I can guarantee you that the authors, that you SELECTIVELY choose to quote, do not represent the majority of Freemasons.

Why don't you quote the majority of masonic authors, who talk about the beauty and wisdom of the Craft? Because you have AN AGENDA, that's why.


[edit on 1-4-2005 by sebatwerk]

Originally posted by sebatwerk

You just dont get it, do you Researcher? Those authors are only giving THEIR PERSONAL TAKE on Freemasonry. So it doesn't matter what THEY THINK masonry is about, some masons have had some truly strange ideas about the Craft, it's about what it really is. And I can guarantee you that the authors, that you SELECTIVELY choose to quote, do not represent the majority of Freemasons.

Why don't you quote the majority of masonic authors, who talk about the beauty and wisdom of the Craft? Because you have AN AGENDA, that's why.


[edit on 1-4-2005 by sebatwerk]

Sebatwerk, why are you trying to hide these agenda's written by your brothers?.

[edit on 1-4-2005 by ThePunisher]

Originally posted by ThePunisher

Originally posted by sebatwerk

You just dont get it, do you Researcher? Those authors are only giving THEIR PERSONAL TAKE on Freemasonry. So it doesn't matter what THEY THINK masonry is about, some masons have had some truly strange ideas about the Craft, it's about what it really is. And I can guarantee you that the authors, that you SELECTIVELY choose to quote, do not represent the majority of Freemasons.

Why don't you quote the majority of masonic authors, who talk about the beauty and wisdom of the Craft? Because you have AN AGENDA, that's why.


[edit on 1-4-2005 by sebatwerk]

Sebatwerk, why are you trying to hide these agenda's written by your brothers?.

[edit on 1-4-2005 by ThePunisher]

What are you talking about? I'm not trying to hide anything. People post quotes from texts, and talk about them like they are representative of the whole fraternity. They are not, they are only the opinion of the author. And I know FOR A FACT that MANY masonic authors are detested by masons because of this exact reason. Pike is one example.

Anti's take these texts and SELECTIVELY choose which ones they will use to represent masonry, they do not take a fair and balanced approach. If they were to take all masonic texts and compare them, they would have nothing to talk abbout, because only a TINY PERCENTAGE can be used to show masonry in a bad light. So are they truly representative of the fraternity, no they are not.

I've written lots of thinngs about masonry. Why don't they take my quotes and use them as being representative of Freemasonry? because what I have written about masonry DOES NOT SUIT THEIR AGENDAS.


[edit on 1-4-2005 by sebatwerk]

Originally posted by Researcher
Reality check, which will be wasted on those with a weak grasp of reality...

Then why are you posting? Your grasp is obviously weak....

These quotes are from books written about Freemasonry, by Freemasons, for Freemasons.

Hmm. If a person were writing a book about Engineering....who'd know more about it and be more of an expert than . . . oh... I don't know...AN ENGINEER????????

Who knows more about Freemasonry than Freemasons? Certainly not trolls, fruitcakes and liars...

Kindly post an alternate explanation for the things written in clear plain English by your fellow travelling men who work for Hiram.

HAHAHAHAHAHA You're not even smart enough to understand allegory. There never WAS a Hiram Abiff..... You just don't get it.

What these authors have in common:
33d degree Freemasons;

Welll Freemasons....I'll give you that. They weren't ALL 33rd Degree Masons. A couple of 'em weren't even Scottish Rite Masons (Scottish Rite is the 4th - 32n Degree...and the honarary 33rd Degree...but you couldn't possibly grasp that.)

Who believe and espouse some truly strange things;

That's true. They believe in the brotherhood of all men...that all humans are God's creatures....they believe in spiritual and educational liberty and freedom. EGAD! how evil and narrow-minded of them....

And, according to Freemasons, they lie like a rug.

[ahem]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Maybe a lifetime spent in an organization that "always hales, ever conceals and never reveals" the truth made them pathological liars?

I've never "haled" ...although admittedly I've IN-haled and EX-haled many times. I have heled though (past tense of "hele" an archaic word....far above your pitifuly ability to understand...)

Pathalogical liars? Takes one to know one....you pathalogical liar.



[edit on 1-4-2005 by senrak]

[edit on 1-4-2005 by senrak]

www.nizkor.org...

Arts and Parts and Points?Smokin' Masons like joints.

Abaddon's their word of bane,
Taking vengance like Tubal-Cain.

Solomon's just Sol and Moon
Oops, did I spoil that too soon?

The rituals are by Francis Bacon
Don't blame me you were Taken.

Shakespeare was he too,
A mass deception of ME AND YOU.

I just wanted to point out the fact that my godfather, who is a freemason was also a member of the CIA. As far as I know he is low level in both. So that gives some credit to the original poster theorizing that the freemasons are just worker bee's.

Originally posted by djpaec
I just wanted to point out the fact that my godfather, who is a freemason was also a member of the CIA. As far as I know he is low level in both. So that gives some credit to the original poster theorizing that the freemasons are just worker bee's.

Worker bees for what!?!? The only thing I've ever worked for in masonry is myself! How is it that us worker bees are going about our work? And which one of the MANY masonic organizations is actually the evil one? You do realize that masonry has no centralized structure, right? You know it';s just a multitude of many organizations that are in recognition of each other?

And there is NO SUCH THING as a low-level mason. It's a fraternity, all members are EQUAL!!! WHY is it so hard to understands this!?!?!?

And HOW does that give credit to the original poster? Your Grandfather demonstrates nothing, except the fact that he was in a fraternity.


[edit on 2-4-2005 by sebatwerk]

Originally posted by djpaec
I just wanted to point out the fact that my godfather, who is a freemason was also a member of the CIA. As far as I know he is low level in both. So that gives some credit to the original poster theorizing that the freemasons are just worker bee's.

By that logic my uncle who's in the Navy and a member of the NAACP would lead me to believe that the NAACP are worker bees for the military. Flawed logic, period. Masons fall into many categories of society, they come from many walks of life and are a very diverse group.

Just because one happens to belong to both is totally irrelevent.

~Astral

[edit on 2-4-2005 by senrak: Astral City said basically the same thing I was going to say]

[edit on 2-4-2005 by senrak]

Similarly, though, I have an uncle who is a Judge.

I trust my Uncle.

Does this mean he has made the correct decision in my eyes every time? Even in his own eyes?

No, it doesn't, but it does mean he can't go around expressing this doubt, and uncertainty about his or OTHER judge's decisions. They have to stick together!

The CIA is not the kind of place you work 9-5 for, so I think it is valid to say they would operate TO AN EXTENT through Freemasonry, just like they operate through various other fronts. (I just singled out the CIA because its beginnings are easy to trace)

Originally posted by akilles
The CIA is not the kind of place you work 9-5 for, so I think it is valid to say they would operate TO AN EXTENT through Freemasonry, just like they operate through various other fronts. (I just singled out the CIA because its beginnings are easy to trace)

Oh COME ON Akilles!!!!!! Did you really just say that!?!??!? You are nuts, dude. Just nuts. Get over your paranoid self and start making some damn sense, boy! So tell me, HOW does the CIA operate through masonry? To teach its members morals and values?

Ever wonder why paranoid schitzophrenics always think it's the CIA that are after them? The CIA is a likely target because of its covert nature, just like Freemasonry. Get over dude. Start demanding some damn proof before you believe nonsense.