JudahMaccabbi, lets stop hiding behind our moronic "god given" claims please, we conquered (LIKE MANY OTHER NATIONS DID) the goddamned land from them, and it is ours now, we fought for it, and won several times, cry me a river palies. (at least i don't hide behind the god chosen people bullcrap).

[edit on 20-3-2005 by Hellraiser]

Originally posted by Hellraiser
JudahMaccabbi, lets stop hiding behind our moronic "god given" claims please, we conquered (LIKE MANY OTHER NATIONS DID) the goddamned land from them, and it is ours now, we fought for it, and won several times, cry me a river palies. (at least i don't hide behind the god chosen people bullcrap).

[edit on 20-3-2005 by Hellraiser]

I never said god given I said a jewish Homeland in the historic land of the Jews - God has nothing to do with it aside from the fact that we kicked the crap out of every Arab country who tried to conquer us. That needed his help.

Originally posted by bodrul

Originally posted by toasted
bodrul,

the joke is on you, if you can't see that just like in 67, the jews could TRULY take out their enemies.

you are so right
only after they were armed to the teath by the US of A with their latest f-14s and so on

Wrong again - 99 percent of all U.S. aid to Israel took place after the June 1967 war - look it up.

Originally posted by toasted
you guys constantly take a jewish retaliatory attack as use it like the jews took the 1st step.

Originally posted by bodrul
they did that when they took the land and decided to import jews from third world countries and started planting them in occupied areas

Eerrrr - Are you trying to equate the Palestinian indiscriminant murder of civilians to settlement activity - Like they are equal in magnitude. You know settlements can be dismantled and even be transferred to Palestinians in final agreements - but murdered Israeli civilians killed by Palestinian terrorist scum cannot be resurrected! There is no equivalence between the two.

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
Eerrrr - Are you trying to equate the Palestinian indiscriminant murder of civilians to settlement activity - Like they are equal in magnitude. You know settlements can be dismantled and even be transferred to Palestinians in final agreements

so how come i read in the news that jews that were planted in occupied area's dont want to leave?

sorry ment some jews and they are willing to break laws if they have to

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
but murdered Israeli civilians killed by Palestinian terrorist scum cannot be resurrected!

neither can all the innacent palistians that were killed by the isreali army in greater numbers


[edit on 20-3-2005 by bodrul]

On the Clinton Barak thing, if Israel was serious about such an aggreement they wouldn't have broken off the talks, at camp david there was no 95% offered and no sovergnty over the water resources, or East Jerusalem and the was NO land swap for the territory Israel was annexing AND the WB was divided in half, AND the settlement in the center of Hebron was to stay open, with a road that cuts through P territory to get to it, you call that a good deal?..anyways Clinton ended Camp David because he said he had to go to an Asia Pacific conference but the real reason was Baraks plan sucked.. at Taba again the Israelis pulled out of the talks when they started discussing the details of final status..

and the Ps are ready to start those talks again..anytime and they've signalled that if the Geneva Accords were presented to them they'd sign it, so Israel can get a final deal anytime they want, the problem is Israel and its American backers are too racist to accept a real Palestinian state, they always have to look down at everyone-by subjegating them into bantustans.

(posted by JudahMaccabbi)
The Answer to this is NO - in case some of you lost souls have a problem with this answer. There is not much intelligence in those arguements that make that comparison So try not sounding stupid.

Do you mean 1) "lost", like trapped in a timeless world, like the poor souls that vanished in the Bermuda Triangle or in the Philadelphia Experiment, or 2) "lost" and wandering in the ether for not having been baptized, or 3) "lost" as in "deranged", or 4) all or none of the above?

M the Loon

Originally posted by bodrul

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
Eerrrr - Are you trying to equate the Palestinian indiscriminant murder of civilians to settlement activity - Like they are equal in magnitude. You know settlements can be dismantled and even be transferred to Palestinians in final agreements

so how come i read in the news that jews that were planted in occupied area's dont want to leave?
sorry ment some jews and they are willing to break laws if they have to

Some of the Jews living in Gaza have built themselves thriving agricultural communities with high quality products that are sold world-wide.
Others believe in settlement activity. Personnally in Gaza I see no historical value in Jewish settlement. Sharon plans on dismantling these settlements and he is known to push forward anything he decides so it is highly likely that these settlements will be dismantled regardless of whether the settlers there want to or don't want to be evacuated.

The west bank is a different story. for the following reasons:
A- The Jordan valley is a strategic area that Israel needs to hold in order to better defend itself in the case of future Arab invasion. The movement of tanks into Palestinian territory would provide the Arab block a wedge where Israel (11 miles wide at it narrowest location) would be capable of being split in two in a matter of minutes. Therefore the Jordan valley must be under Israeli control (aside from Jericho and allenby crossing). IN addition the Jordan valley has a relatively sparce Palestinian population.
B- The West bank has significant Jewish Historical sights (Old city of Jerusalem, Cave of Patriarchs in Hebron and the Jewish community there which is Ancient, Josephs tomb which was desecrated by the Palestinians a few years ago). These locations cannot be abandoned - They are too important for the Jews as a whole.

I see a future were population transfers will be necessary. Meaning evaulation of Jewish settlement from certain areas and evacuation of Palestinians from other areas.
A land swap would also be probable where part of the Israeli Negev and parts of Wadi Ara would be given to the Palestinians.

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
but murdered Israeli civilians killed by Palestinian terrorist scum cannot be resurrected!

neither can all the innacent palistians that were killed by the isreali army in greater numbers

Yes Innocents from both sides have suffered from this conflict. I tend not to agree that more innocents on the Palestinian side have suffered but more innocents on the Israeli side since the Palestinians have a policy of targeting innocents while the Israeli don't. Palestinian innocents killed are colleteral damage of conflict when terrorists are targeted or when they are caught in crossfire. Palestinians also endanger their own population by stashing bombs in residential areas, shooting at soldiers from behind children throwing stones and by using ambulances to transfer bombs and terrorists from place to place.

[edit on 20-3-2005 by bodrul]

Originally posted by Macrento


Do you mean 1) "lost", like trapped in a timeless world, like the poor souls that vanished in the Bermuda Triangle or in the Philadelphia Experiment, or 2) "lost" and wandering in the ether for not having been baptized, or 3) "lost" as in "deranged", or 4) all or none of the above?

M the Loon

No - Lost like 'lost' my virginity!

xphantomx
Regarding Camp David, Where do you get you info. The reason the talks were broke off was because it was obvious that Arafat was not going to accept anything. He kept disagreeing with everything thrown at him and offer no counter-proposal.
Arafat had a tendency to obtain proposals and then use those proposals as the basis for future concessions without offerig anything or commiting to anything.
That is why the talks were stopped - It was going nowhere.

If you hold on to all that crap in the WB, then it's a racist aphartied state and will eventually be sanctioned, first by the EU and America's going bankrupt paying your damn bills..and there isn't going to be any more 'palestinian evacuations' or ethnic cleansing, Israel can no longer get away with doing that. they can close all their settlements and then give the P's some extra territory to make up for the refugee problem and the Palestinian state would still be only 1/4 of tyhe territory even though their population is higher than that, ; if they want Israel to be a jewish state and democracy, or they can give the P's civil right which will make it a secular state of it's people, which will eventually be a Palestine, or they can continue with aphartied and the 'jewish state will eventuially collapse behind a succesion of walls..

I got my info about camp david from Israels lead negotiator at the talks Yossi Beilen, he wrote a book about camp david and Taba and even he said Barak and Clinton are full of #, and if they wanted that kind of aggreement the P's will sign the Geneva accords right now..

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi

Originally posted by bodrul

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
Eerrrr - Are you trying to equate the Palestinian indiscriminant murder of civilians to settlement activity - Like they are equal in magnitude. You know settlements can be dismantled and even be transferred to Palestinians in final agreements

so how come i read in the news that jews that were planted in occupied area's dont want to leave?
sorry ment some jews and they are willing to break laws if they have to

Some of the Jews living in Gaza have built themselves thriving agricultural communities with high quality products that are sold world-wide.
Others believe in settlement activity. Personnally in Gaza I see no historical value in Jewish settlement. Sharon plans on dismantling these settlements and he is known to push forward anything he decides so it is highly likely that these settlements will be dismantled regardless of whether the settlers there want to or don't want to be evacuated.

The west bank is a different story. for the following reasons:
A- The Jordan valley is a strategic area that Israel needs to hold in order to better defend itself in the case of future Arab invasion. The movement of tanks into Palestinian territory would provide the Arab block a wedge where Israel (11 miles wide at it narrowest location) would be capable of being split in two in a matter of minutes. Therefore the Jordan valley must be under Israeli control (aside from Jericho and allenby crossing). IN addition the Jordan valley has a relatively sparce Palestinian population.
B- The West bank has significant Jewish Historical sights (Old city of Jerusalem, Cave of Patriarchs in Hebron and the Jewish community there which is Ancient, Josephs tomb which was desecrated by the Palestinians a few years ago). These locations cannot be abandoned - They are too important for the Jews as a whole.

I see a future were population transfers will be necessary. Meaning evaulation of Jewish settlement from certain areas and evacuation of Palestinians from other areas.
A land swap would also be probable where part of the Israeli Negev and parts of Wadi Ara would be given to the Palestinians.

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
but murdered Israeli civilians killed by Palestinian terrorist scum cannot be resurrected!

neither can all the innacent palistians that were killed by the isreali army in greater numbers

[edit on 20-3-2005 by bodrul]

Originally posted by xphantomx
If you hold on to all that crap in the WB, then it's a racist aphartied state and will eventually be sanctioned, first by the EU and America's going bankrupt paying your damn bills..and there isn't going to be any more 'palestinian evacuations' or ethnic cleansing, Israel can no longer get away with doing that. they can close all their settlements and then give the P's some extra territory to make up for the refugee problem and the Palestinian state would still be only 1/4 of tyhe territory even though their population is higher than that, ; if they want Israel to be a jewish state and democracy, or they can give the P's civil right which will make it a secular state of it's people, which will eventually be a Palestine, or they can continue with aphartied and the 'jewish state will eventuially collapse behind a succesion of walls..

I got my info about camp david from Israels lead negotiator at the talks Yossi Beilen, he wrote a book about camp david and Taba and even he said Barak and Clinton are full of #, and if they wanted that kind of aggreement the P's will sign the Geneva accords right now..

Yossi Beilin has been considered one of the Architects of Oslo, Senior negotiator of Taba and Camp David - all terrible failures. The Geneva accords a virtual agreement that holds no official standing not among the Palestinians and not among the Israeli and does not have public support from both sides it si an agreement of no use. Politicians and political wannabes signed off the document as a PR photo-op. This document is a blatant invasion of Israeli soviernty by the Europeans in that it was backed and financed by the Europeans and the text reached every Israeli home. This type of action is illegal in many developed countries.

Yossi Beilin is a far left-of-center politician who has been struggling to get a seat in the Israeli Parliment. The European Union loves him and supports him financially. Beilin is a politician and he like all the rest of them are full of sh*t - He led 3 failed negotiations and he is a failed politician - What do you expect him to say. Despite that mud-slinging on the Americans is something his European activators really enjoy.

Regarding a future Israeli/Palestinian agreement - None of what you proposed is realistic. No-one from teh Israeli right or the (sane) Israeli left would agree to this.

With Abu Mazen now running the show maybe things will be a bit different.

Nice to see a reasonable moderator - NOT

Thought this was a board for debate - not calling people 'idiots' just becuase they have a different view

Please read my post again. The "idiots" label applied to both the Palestinians and the Israelis in this conflict, as both have been unable to come up with a way to live together. It was actually said out of the heat of the moment, so for THAT I will apologize... The label did NOT however, apply to one viewpoint or the other, now did it? So no, I did not insult any particular group but rather all parties involved.

The best solutions usually are. But neither of these idiots have seen to have gotten this through their thick skulls yet

As for being called "Palestine"...using that logic, I suppose we should now give back the US to the Native Americans? History is just that....history. There is no "birthright" to occupying territory. Whoever's in charge, is in charge. Peace only occurs when it becomes inevitable that the one in charge isn't going anywhere, and the opposition then turns from fighting to instead trying to live in peace with it's neighbors.

[edit on 21-3-2005 by Gazrok]

Yeah i agree. The palastian's are just part of the islamic empire that feel in the first world war. They are arab's. You must rememember alot of empires ruled over israel and the palastian's are just the last empire that feel.

If we say palastian's have a home land, then we can say that the italion's in italy have more right to israel then the palastians.

The moor's in morroco also can claim to spain.

I suspect the palastian's don't even know the history of empire's. These guy's knew the jew's had a temple on mount. So they build a mosque right on top of it. Same thing in east leg of the roman empire modern day turkey. Changed a massive church into mosque.

As for being called "Palestine"...using that logic, I suppose we should now give back the US to the Native Americans? History is just that....history. There is no "birthright" to occupying territory. Whoever's in charge, is in charge. Peace only occurs when it becomes inevitable that the one in charge isn't going anywhere, and the opposition then turns from fighting to instead trying to live in peace with it's neighbors.


The difference is..NAs are not 50% of the population of the territory of the USA, North America was a sparcly populated, pre-civilized area of the world when the Europeans started settling it, there were some serious abuses of the NA's but no sudden mass genocide or expulsion..Israel founded it self on ethnic cleansing


and on the eneva Accords: Arafat himself stated when his cabinet ministers went and negotiated it, that he had been in contact with them and if such an aggreement was submitted to him for real-he would sign it..he said that outside his Ramullah HQ the day it was sign in pretend, Abbas would also sign it, so Israel has that kind of aggreement anytime they want it..

Let's follow it farther back than the native Americans, or even the settlers of Jericho...

Let's go way, way back...

Give the planet back to the frogs!

They were here first!

I actually like this idea. I'm going to spend my life savings lobbying towards this effort.

Too bad for the frogs my life savings is in a peanut jar on my desk..and it clinks when shaken.

(posted by JudahMaccabbi)
No - Lost like 'lost' my virginity!

True, there IS a link between sex & politics. Kissinger was unusually outspoken about this. As you probably remember, when asked whether or not it was true that power wielding enhanced sexual performance he replied, "You can hardly begin to imagine."

Conversely, helplessness works the opposite way. F. ex., jobless men have an enfeebled self-esteem, thus a poor sexual record. They are not reliable lovers, Latin or otherwise.

However, in the present case one cannot see how sex has anything to do with anything else. Please be more explicit. Thank you and l'haim!
*