what if the jews were/are right?

originally posted by: stormson
. the Muslims, which also descend from the Jews, view Jesus as a prophet, but not the messiah.

The Jews actually come from Isaac, only part of the Muslims, Mohammad included, came from Ishmael. While the promise to Ishmael and all the other decedents from Abraham, from his other wife and concubines, was lands to the east of Israel, Israel was not promised to them.

Gen 25:6 But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country.

No Muslim is a Jew and even they admit that.

A little Bible knowledge or familiarity would be a good thing to possess before posting.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Well, According to prophecy everybody is probably a Jew or a Israelite by now. The prophesies to look at are Genesis 48 and 49.

Per the prophesies the descendants of Israel were to eventually become nations with the descendants of Ephraim destined to become a multitude of nations. Combine that with the adoption parable of the olive tree from Romans 11 it pretty much means that most if not all the peoples of the earth will be eventually considered a member of a tribe of Israel. Either by blood or adoption.

a reply to: ntech

Roms 9-11 is for Israel not gentiles. Gen is the allng out of Israel. you need to divide between Israel and Gentiles and the church of God.

a word of Advice learn to

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Are there any people on earth who are not chosen?

That would be discrimination.

a reply to: Out6of9Balance

God is a discriminatory God and he is not a respecter of persons.

That is why heaven is given to those who believe on his Son Jesus Christ alone and not on any merit of their own.

He discriminates between those who have Christ by faith alone, and those who don't have Christ by faith alone in this current age.

In the previous age and the Great Tribulation he discriminates between Israel and the Gentiles.

But that will change fairly soon when the church is gathered unto Christ in the clouds ever more to be with him 1Thess 4:17.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Right, but on the other hand Christ died for all, not?

So all are chosen but not all want to go.

a reply to: Out6of9Balance

All can receive his covering but not all will because of unbelief in his substitutional death for their sins, taking their place in hell and rising from the dead.

a reply to: stormson

This is why it's so important to be familiar with the Bible, including the Old Testament. Read the book of Zechariah. It explains what will happen to the Jews and how they come to the realization that that they were wrong. They just don't/won't understand what has been written by their own ancestors until God reveals it to them.

originally posted by: stormson
...
both christians and jews say the o.t. is correct. they say that the jews were/are the chosen of god. then a dude named jesus comes along and suddenly 99% of the jews, even the most educated in the o.t., are wrong and he is the messiah.

so for thousands of years, the jews are correct about everything dealing with god, then they get it wrong.
...

The Israelites losing their favored status with Jehovah God didn't happen over night, and for the majority of them it already happened long before Jesus came along, as it says so in their 'own' so-called OT (the Hebrew Scriptures; see bolded part below):

Are the Jews God’s Chosen People? (Awake!—1990)

THE establishment of a Jewish homeland in 1948 was a traumatic event for Christendom’s theologians. For centuries many had taught that Jews were doomed to wander the earth because of their sin against Christ, and now the “wandering Jew” would wander no more.

As current events in the Middle East continue to focus attention on the Jewish people, questions on issues long thought settled are now being raised. Are the Jews still God’s chosen people? Is God now showing special favor to the Jews?

Centuries ago, God told the Israelites: “If you will strictly obey my voice and will indeed keep my covenant, then you will certainly become my special property out of all other peoples, because the whole earth belongs to me. And you yourselves will become to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.” (Exodus 19:5, 6) All nations belonged to God, but the Israelites could become his special property, eventually serving as priests in behalf of all mankind.

But was this special relationship with God unconditional? No! God had said: “If you will strictly obey my voice . . . then you will certainly become my special property.” So their continuing in a chosen relationship with God was conditional, dependent upon their continued faithfulness to him.

A Forceful Illustration

This was underscored by events of the eighth century B.C.E., during the days of the prophet Hosea. Despite having received special favor as God’s chosen people, the majority of the Israelites abandoned the true worship of Jehovah. What was Jehovah’s reaction? “I shall no more show mercy again to the house of Israel, because I shall positively take them away. . . . You men are not my people and I myself shall prove to be not yours.” (Hosea 1:6, 9) Thus, those apostate Israelites would not remain in God’s favor. Only a faithful remnant would one day be privileged to be restored and again experience divine blessings.​—Hosea 1:10.

True to this prophecy, God allowed the Israelites to be taken captive by their enemies and their temple to be destroyed, forcefully demonstrating the loss of their approved relationship with him. Only a faithful remnant of Israelites (by then known as Jews) returned from captivity in 537 B.C.E. and rebuilt Jehovah’s temple, once again enjoying Jehovah’s favor as his chosen people.

Only “a Remnant” Remains Faithful

Nevertheless, in the centuries that followed, Jews were besieged by the influence of Greek philosophy​—such as the Platonic doctrine of the immortal soul—​with catastrophic effects on their worship. That worship would never again be based simply on the teachings of Moses and the Hebrew prophets.

Would Jehovah continue to view the Jews as his chosen people? Recognizing that many had once again apostatized from the unadulterated worship of Jehovah, Jesus said: “The kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits.” (Matthew 21:43) Failing to heed that warning, the majority continued in their apostate course and rejected Jesus as Jehovah’s anointed one. Hence, it was not long afterward that God allowed the rebuilt temple to be destroyed, in 70 C.E. (Matthew 23:37, 38) Did this mean that God was now rejecting all Jews?

As Paul, a Jewish apostle of Christ, explained: “God did not reject his people, whom he first recognized. . . . At the present season also a remnant has turned up according to a choosing due to undeserved kindness.” (Romans 11:2, 5) Just as many might be invited to a wedding ceremony but only a few might attend, God had invited the entire Jewish nation into a special relationship with him, but only a remnant of these maintained that special closeness by their faithfulness. God’s forbearance was indeed a display of undeserved kindness!

“Those Not My People” Become “My People”

This faithful Jewish remnant was soon joined by non-Jews who also desired to serve God. Even though their ancestors had not been in a special relationship with him, Jehovah was now willing to accept these faithful non-Jews as his people. Noting this, Paul wrote: “If, now, God . . . called [us] not only from among Jews but also from among [non-Jewish] nations, what of it? It is as he says also in Hosea: ‘Those not my people I will call “my people.”’”​—Romans 9:22-25. [whereislogic: note that Paul is quoting from the prophecy in Hosea again, the Hebrew Scriptures; it was right there in their 'own' Scriptures. It's not really something you wanna hear if you're a Jew that is more zealous for the religious teachings and traditions of Judaism than for Jehovah and His teachings in His Word that has clear warnings against these Pagan teachings and traditions adopted into Judaism such as the Platonic doctrine of the immortal soul mentioned earlier, it doesn't 'tickle the ears' as described at 2 Timothy 4:3,4.]

Thus, both Jews and non-Jews could be God’s chosen people, with the prospect of serving as priests in behalf of the rest of mankind. Speaking to faithful worshipers of various national backgrounds, the Christian apostle Peter, a Jew from birth, wrote: “You are ‘a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession’ . . . For you were once not a people, but are now God’s people.” (1 Peter 2:9, 10) This was the “nation,” people with godly qualities, that Jesus said would produce the ‘fruits of God’s kingdom’ and that would therefore enjoy a special relationship with Jehovah.​—Matthew 21:43.

God was looking for faith and righteous conduct in his selection of these prospective priests, not some special ancestry. As Peter had noted: “God is not partial, but in every nation the man that fears him and works righteousness is acceptable to him.”​—Acts 10:34, 35.

Thus, God no longer grants special favor to any person on the basis of birth. He affords people of all national backgrounds the opportunity to build a relationship with him. May we show that we are desirous of being God’s people by our faith and conduct.

a reply to: Peeple

You just need to answer one question: Did Jesus "bring universal peace and brotherhood, without any evil" and is God present & true in every living person? No. So very much not. Obviously not the messiah.

Evil is a creation that is given to all of this creation. With out evil there would be no choice as to what is good. So in that lite, evil is a necessity of which comes with a free mind to choose opposites. If that were taken away then you would have no free mind to choose between evil and justification. Jesus came not to judge the living but reserves judgment for each individual after our deaths. Upon the second advent of the Christ [Word of God] is when evil is dealt with by the sword and peace will reign for a thousand years.

I believe you are trying to mix Rabbinic Judasim with Christianity. Rabbinic Judaic faith is centered upon the throne of mankind [King David] as replacing the Son of God of Christianity. Out of the modern three branches of Judaism today is the denial of any Son of God [word of God] existing. Their last day is centered upon a general resurrection of mankind who is reunited with his/her dead body and then judged. The justified Jew will then enter the bundle of life as a bodiless spirit for eternity. In other words they will experience two deaths whereas Jesus teaches that there is but one death.

Also Islamic faith is not from Judaic faith. Islamic faith stems from a mortal man who died a mortal man and has nothing in common with Christianity or Judaism. Judaism stems from the Sumerian Hebrew tribes of Moses but not from Moses. Judaic faith comes from Jacob [Israel]. Even Abraham came from Babylon as a Sumerian [not a Jew] with a covenant of his own. Islam is a faith that was spawned by Canaanite gods of which the moon god Sin was predominate.

a reply to: Seede

Jesus judges crap, he is a man and only one power in the universe can judge. And it's not some son of a whore, who in modern days would probably be satanist.
Because he kind of was, you know? A sorcerer who basically seperated people from God and preached the value of individualism.
Not saying that it was wrong at the time, or not necessary, it was and lead us on this path we're now on, with sciences, freedom of choice, all good things.
But there comes a time when you arrive on the downward side of your circle and that's where we are now.
Humanity hellbent on suicide.
All religions forgot how to unite with the great soul of the universe.

So # Jesus

a reply to: Peeple

Jesus judges crap, he is a man and only one power in the universe can judge. And it's not some son of a whore, who in modern days would probably be satanist.

You may be right when you say that Jesus judges crap. There will be a lot of crap that he judges and i hope you are not part of that which is judged as crap. There are many sons of whor's that are fine people. In order to have whores you must have whore mongers --- do you not?

a reply to: Seede

What? If you want to talk about your free time activities may I suggest 4chan.

The biggest sin is to have other gods beside God, true?
Yet somehow people seem to think it's fine to pray to a man, because it "brings them closer to Gawd..." what bs haha
anthropocentric delusion, God is no man and no man is God.

a reply to: Peeple

The biggest sin is to have other gods beside God, true?

Depends upon which god you have to have other gods. Your whole mess of gods may not have the correct god to begin with. A good example is yourself. You have rejected the true Most High El with His Son Jesus in this thread. So you can have as many gods as you want and still be wrong on all accounts.

a reply to: Seede

Good one.
Keep praying to a dead man, see what it gets you

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Seede

What? If you want to talk about your free time activities may I suggest 4chan.

The biggest sin is to have other gods beside God, true?
Yet somehow people seem to think it's fine to pray to a man, because it "brings them closer to Gawd..." what bs haha
anthropocentric delusion, God is no man and no man is God.

You clearly do not know, see or hear the truth...
JESUS CHRIST is GOD in the flesh not just a mere man
May GOD bless you and open your eyes and heart to the truth

originally posted by: stormson
a reply to: IAMALLYETALLIAM

consider:

Matthew 15:24 [Jesus] answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

25 The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.

26 He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”

this passage states quite clearly that jesus is only for the jews, but her faith in a foreign god gained her favor from him.

That's an odd way of putting it (the bolded part), not even sure what you mean with that if it's supposed to be based on what Jesus says there. I think you misunderstand that anyway (reading a bit more into it to put* it that way; *: or phrase. In the end, it's no longer the same phrase as found at verse 24 in your chosen translation or rendering). “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. For God did not send his Son into the world for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him.” (Jesus teaching Nic·o·deʹmus at John 3:16,17)

Similar to what Jesus says in Matthew 15:24, when sending his twelve apostles out on a limited preaching tour, Jesus told them: “Do not go off into the road of the nations, and do not enter into a Samaritan city; but, instead, go continually to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” (Matt. 10:5, 6) That Jesus did not forbid all preaching to the Samaritans can be seen by his own words and actions. In one of his parables he showed that the Jews should consider the Samaritans as neighbors. (Luke 10:29-37) Once Christ healed ten men, one of whom was a Samaritan, and Jesus commended that man for being the only one of the ten who expressed gratitude. (Luke 17:11-19) Also, Jesus preached to a Samaritan woman at the well of Sychar and later also to others in that Samaritan city.​—John 4:4-43.

Consequently, Jesus’ order at Matthew 10:5, 6 must be understood as a restriction that applied particularly to that time and occasion (similar to what he's talking about at Matthew 15:24). By what Christ said about “the lost sheep of the house of Israel,” it seems evident that he was emphasizing the importance of taking the message to the Jews first, giving them the first opportunity. So, on their preaching tour the apostles were to concentrate on the Jews, not attempting at this time to preach to all peoples and nations. Surely the six pairs of men would have more than enough to do during their relatively brief tour even with their territory restricted to the cities and villages of the Jews.​—Mark 6:7.

The situation was quite different when Jesus said what he did as recorded at Acts 1:8. He was, in effect, giving his followers some parting instructions that indicated the worldwide preaching work to be accomplished. Just before ascending to heaven he said: “You will be witnesses of me both in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and to the most distant part of the earth.” And that is just the way it worked out. Due to persecution the Christian disciples were scattered, and as a result their message was preached in Samaria.​—Acts 8:1-17.

Also, a more accurate rendering of Matthew 15:22-28 (so including the rest of the context and the endresult of that conversation, but in particular verse 26), reveals even more about Jesus' own feelings toward non-Jews and about the Jews’ negative view of people of other nationalities.

Jesus finds a house to stay in but does not want people to know that he is there. Yet, even here he cannot escape notice. A woman of Greek descent who was born in this area finds Jesus and begins begging: “Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David. My daughter is cruelly demon possessed.”​—Matthew 15:22; Mark 7:26.

After a while, Jesus’ disciples urge him: “Send her away, because she keeps crying out after us.” In response, Jesus explains his reason for ignoring her: “I was not sent to anyone except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” The woman does not give up, though. She approaches and falls down before Jesus, pleading: “Lord, help me!”​—Matthew 15:23-25.

Apparently to test her faith, Jesus alludes to the Jews’ negative view of people of other nationalities: “It is not right to take the bread of the children and throw it to the little dogs.” (Matthew 15:26) In speaking of “little dogs,” or puppies, Jesus reveals his tender feelings toward non-Jews. His facial expression and compassionate voice must also convey those feelings. [whereislogic: Did you notice the difference between the rendering you used? It makes a big difference. The Jews generally viewed a non-Jew as being like a ceremonially unclean animal, a dog. However, in using the expression “little dogs,” Jesus Christ was not being unduly harsh. He was referring to dogs that might be kept in a home and not to wild dogs of the street.]

Rather than taking offense, the woman picks up on the reference to Jewish prejudices and humbly observes: “Yes, Lord, but really the little dogs do eat of the crumbs falling from the table of their masters.” Jesus recognizes her good heart condition and says: “O woman, great is your faith; let it happen to you as you wish.” (Matthew 15:27, 28) And it does, even though the girl is not right there! When the woman returns home, she finds her daughter lying on the bed, completely healed​—“the demon was gone”!​—Mark 7:30.

Source: Jesus Cures a Girl and a Deaf Man (Jesus—The Way, the Truth, the Life)