Small Scale Future

Wasn't sure where to post this exactly. It's not quite a rant, it's about society and social issues I suppose. If a mod can think of a better forum this fits in, feel free to move it.

This is something i've been thinking about for a while now. With covid lockdowns, China bull# and general economic failure it's something that seems more and more like we need as society.

I think the future of most things, agriculture, manufacturing, power generation should be small scale local first.

We have the technology these days.

Between home CNC machines and 3D printers dropping to the point where one could pick up 2 decent quality ones for under $5000 and rapid advancement in materials for manufacturing in the last few years. Home manufacturing is becoming increasingly viable for many of the consumer goods we rely on China and other imports for.

Small scale wind, solar, and hydro technology is becoming more affordable and viable every year.

www.cleanenergyregulator.gov.au...

Between that and advancements in battery storage technology can help push individuals and communities to be self reliant for power, or at least greatly offset the need to import power.

Small scale agriculture, even in urban settings is becoming increasingly viable.

The technology is getting there.

The more communities can become self sufficient in those areas, the more power they and the individuals living in them have over their own lives.

The future should be a bottom up future. Presently, power comes from the top down. People thousands of kilometres away make decisions about areas they have no interest in or idea about because those people have the ability to control trade and manufacturing.

Globalism is about extending that top down control and pushing it even further away from the people to some shadowy global UN government.

This is because the big players control the manufacturing and trade. They push things like NAFTA ans the WTO to allow them to exploit the resources and people of the world and profit on them while leaving local communities devastated and broke, of money, resources and opportunity.

The technology exists so it doesn't need to be like this.

Why let corporations sell you food and cheap goods from china you can make and grow in your.community?

Take advantage of globalism. We live in an interconnected world. If a local area needs resources from somehwere else, they have the ability to just communicate directly with that business or another area any where in the world and arrange things.

Communities, local trade networks and even locally driven trade networks should be the future. Where local communities and the individuals in them have the power and the further out you go the power and influence becomes less. I see those governments moving to more of a supervisory, keeping the peace roll between those areas.

We don't need massive corporations or the corrupt governments that enable them to do these things any more. We live in a time with some of the most amazing, unprecedented technology ever invented.

It's being used against us to control and manipulate us. But this technology can be used by us to free ourselves from slavery if we use it and stop relying on the government and international corporations to protect us and give us things.

Human beings are here to create. It's what we do best and if we start creating for ourselves and those around us, it empowers us and everyone and reduces reliance on outsiders who only want to exploit, use and profit off you.

a reply to: dug88

You are assuming the movement isn't already happening.

For instance...

I make my own power, grow my own food, trade with the people in my community for what I need.

I go to the local grocery store once in the spring and once in the fall and I'm not there to buy food.

Just convenience items that I could very well do without if I needed to.

More and more people like me are springing up and going to work on it.

It is a way forwards for civilization that is just inevitable.

a reply to: Lumenari

I never said I don't think it's happening. It just needs to be supported more at a local level. I watched the city I lived in for years squander every opportunity at this this and sell out to the shadiest developers and Chinese speculators. I moved a few months back out of the city and i've watched the covid lockdowns eat at the local community and hamper local markets and other local businesses while the few larger companies remain unimpeded.

The local markets here finally opened up a bit near the end of summer, they were more heavily restricted than the large chain grocery store despite being outside.

The dollar stores and cheap Chinese commodity providers have done well during all this. Local farmers, crafters, grocers and other such businesses have suffered.

Local governments need to support the people like yourself and others working to be self sufficient and even provide for their community.

My post was more of a, for people like yourself, and anyone else who wants to get into it. Pressure local governments, support governments that support people who do this.

The movement, like you say, is under way, the more we bring awareness to it, the more people are motivated to be self sufficient and not rely on such things. The more it can grow.

The more I see things going in the world, the more i've realized this is the only way to change anything.

a reply to: dug88

One thing you're seeing is the return of local livestock producers since the Big Four ran into supply issues.

This should teach everyone to stop buying fake USDA approved 'Product of USA' meat products imported into the country. Stop making the Walton's, et al, rich, buy local.

S&F. Thanks for bringing this one up.

You aren't the only one that has been thinking about this kind of thing. I hadn't gone into the depth of detail that you have, but I've been thinking along the same lines, decentralization of everything basically. Smaller but more plentiful production facilities, more competition, better products and services, less corruption and above all, people having more control of their own lives and their time.

Believe it or not, Trump has been a proponent of intrastate commerce to bolster US independence from foreign markets.

"The solution is to finally pass a proposed change in federal law called the Processing Revival and Intrastate Meat Exemption Act (the PRIME Act), H.R. 2859 / S. 1620."

"The PRIME Act would repeal the ban on sale of meat processed by custom slaughterhouses that meet state regulations and basic federal requirements."

"Four companies control processing of over 80% of the country’s beef, and four control about two-thirds of the country’s pork. This consolidation has led to the current situation in which plant closures due to worker illness and unsafe conditions can cause concerns about possible meat shortages. Yet there are hundreds of millions of livestock and poultry in this county."

www.farmtoconsumer.org...

I see Kroger's shelves being filled with local produce and products. We're gonna have to chose local. It will be great!

originally posted by: dug88
a reply to: LumenariThe local markets here finally opened up a bit near the end of summer, they were more heavily restricted than the large chain grocery store despite being outside.

The dollar stores and cheap Chinese commodity providers have done well during all this. Local farmers, crafters, grocers and other such businesses have suffered.

Regardless of the Chinese component in most stores, our local DG just expanded their food section during a store remodel. They now have a small produce section (re-stocked three times a week) of the essentials - tomatoes, onions, avacados, mushrooms, etc. along with some meats, dairy and such. Their canned food and cereal sections have always been decent. Not just DG brand, but name brand as well. They're now at a point that I could plan for two weeks worth of meals from there without going to the next town over to the Meijer or WalMart for anything. In our town that's a big deal since we lost our only local grocery store twenty years ago. I still prefer to go to Jack's Market (full service produce & butcher shop) in the tri-cities area but it's almost an hour drive. Their meat suppliers are local and you can really tell the difference.

originally posted by: BlissSeeker
I see Kroger's shelves being filled with local produce and products. We're gonna have to chose local. It will be great!

The Kroger that was local to us closed about a year ago. We get our prescriptions through their prescription club because it saves us a ton, like seven grand last year. I have to travel 45 minutes to the closest one that's open in our area but it's worth it. This one is a smaller store so the selection isn't as good as others and it's not really the cleanest store around.

a reply to: dug88

I think we have many many years before small scale agriculture will be viable.
Covid has shown that there is a HUGE gap in basic farm knowledge with a huge portion of the population. I was actually shocked to see how bad it was.

Many people tried their hand at gardening this year. I saw several post of people asking basic questions that were so crazy. Literally questions like is this edible ( photo of grapes).

Yes there are small mom and pop farms but the output isn’t enough to sustain the population. We are a voracious society. I don’t see mega farms and imports going anywhere in the near future. I do hope some of the newbys stick with it!

originally posted by: HalWesten
Regardless of the Chinese component in most stores, our local DG just expanded their food section during a store remodel. They now have a small produce section (re-stocked three times a week) of the essentials - tomatoes, onions, avacados, mushrooms, etc. along with some meats, dairy and such.

They are just as bad as Walmart and source their imported/domestic factory farmed foods from many of the same places. Stop patronizing giant retailers.

a reply to: JAGStorm

Automation

There is not a great deal of difference between deploying systems that can enable the disabled and the ignorant to be self-sufficient.

Aquaponics is largely self-sufficient once its up and running anyway, save for harvesting of either crops or livestock.

About 100sqft per person enables a baseline self-sufficiency of 1lb of protein/day.



I do believe total decentralization is the key to a great many things. Normally, I would have preferred to see this process to take place over decades, or even generations, as it represents a massive change.. But there are other factors in play and society has been primed. Not to mention what we are already seeing in terms of aggregating these things under a centralized banner. I believe that will be an immensely negative path.

I believe the trick here is a bit like legos. Give every individual the basic building blocks for granular self-sufficiency and then see what people build together. When we build systems that can enable the disabled and ignorant as well, it changes a great many things. And yes, we do have the tech to do it.

CNC and 3D printing are also much closer than many think. The same system can be used for both, as they tend to use the same code; one is additive and one is subtractive. This should not only facilitate ease of use, but also save space for those installations that require it.

The issue with something like solar & wind is that many still perceive it in terms of strict efficiency, environmental impact, and financial terms. Those have never been its strengths, and it damages the conversation (intentionally, imo). I think honest conversations about the pros/cons of these things is important. However, in an age where many are manipulated to gravitate towards marketing, or utter rejection of modern tech, I could be mistaken about that.

I think the important thing here is to build the framework and platform with the understanding that many aspects, like energy storage, may change dramatically. But, a decentralized system is far superior in dealing with foundational changes than centralized systems.

Perhaps the most important is to change the perception of what people think is possible in the first place. More and more speak of self-sufficiency, but less about what that could look like with modern technology, and even less about the technology that will be released in the next decade(s). If we dont build structures that can utilize this, then the ones that have been prepared to do so on a global, corporate-political level will hold all of the cards.

Final showdown of a theme running through our Cultural Story since before the Neolithic Revolution. Our tools are different now though, and that is the sole factor in changing what is possible.

a reply to: Serdgiam

I like your take but I have to add in my two cents. Even with automation there is an element of Mother Nature, and cost. I’ve seen some of the cool indoor grow stations and they have come a long way but they are still expensive. Even when you automate there are things like bugs, critters, mold etc that everyone will still need to deal with.

Think about fish tanks, many have amazing filters, heaters etc, but people still struggle to keep fish alive.

a reply to: JAGStorm

I appreciate your two cents! I agree with your points too, its not some ultimate solution to all problems; such a paradigm shift would have unique issues of its own.

Honestly, my biggest concern would be the transition period between centralized industries to decentralization. The farming industry alone would likely be destroyed as we know it. Despite that, I still feel it is the superior option. I also believe that a large part of that disruption is already in play.

We are actually using mother nature in our favor with an aquaponics setup. Its part of the beauty in the tech.. we are creating a micro-ecosystem that is self-sustaining. The extent of that sustainability is determined by our cleverness, granularity, and innovation. I believe that I am personally in a good position in these regards, as typical maintainence is not something I can perform. "Traditional" self-sufficiency is impossible for me.

A lot would be predicated on the *assumption* that rates of invention would increase, as a decentralized society also decentralizes progress. The downsides of that are largely mitigated, if not nullified, by modern communication tech. However, the industries we rely on for that communication may not be "supportive" of the overall shift.

These are some of the reasons I believe it would be best for these things to be deployed over quite a few years. But, in the face of the similar automation & algorithms being implemented on a corporate, centralized scale.. Im not sure we have the luxury of time.

In that, it would be more about adopting the building blocks for the shift. The first step is talking about it, and then momentum from adoption of the tech that already exists. The basic block is the individual, and then we go up from there (rather than the other way round). But, that doesnt mean a node of homes cant pool their resources either. In fact, I still see a place for large scale operations in a completely decentralized society. It would simply inject choice into the equation, and reduce or eliminate our dependency on large scale, corporate industry.

The growing pains would be addressed as we actually transition. Can you imagine what would happen if some of the major industry players (like Musk) saw the benefits and decided to target their immense resources into aquaponics advancement alone?

All that said, such a paradigm shift would also require a shift in thinking. As little as a few decades ago, decentralization would pretty directly equate to isolation. This is still the theme that drives most "self-sufficient" approaches to this day.

However, this is why we would build small buffers into every node. If one food supply node gets destroyed, the surrounding nodes can pick up the slack with a much, much greater degree of precision (and less waste) than centralized structures.

I believe that humanity will bear the consequences of the decisions we are making in the next 5-10 years, for generations. Yet, it seems the two popularized choices are either total corporate-political dependency, or strictly traditional self-sufficiency through the rejection of technology and clusters of isolation. Im not sure either one is a positive path for our civilization, and beyond that, most seem more focused on other things in the first place.


In my opinion, not only would mass adoption of decentralization change systems like the food supply.. It would also affect everything from spirituality & meditation to the very themes around which we write our Stories.

Aspects of this would still be true on the current path towards absolute centralized corporate dependency. But, the march towards dependency is very much a direct continuation of the same Stories we have told for generations; people who gain power start to believe they know best for everyone, and leverage centralized resources to exert that will with increasing force until the population hammers it back down.

The differences this time around, in the forms of things like manipulation based on real time data as well as viability at a global scale, create a situation where the stakes are larger than ever before though.

We must choose wisely, and the first step in that is realizing that we are indeed making a choice. Either between a global, monolithic corporate-political religion or decentralized nodes of total autonomy. Due to the nature of the former, they can not coexist.

There are advantages & disadvantages to each, but I know I certainly have a preference. In that, I actually agree with the protestors/rioters.. They just have absolutely no idea what the "systems of oppression" really are, how to address them without force, or the actual systems that could replace them. Nor do they have the patience, maturity, or attention span to do anything other than demand "change nao!" Those sentiments have been masterfully manipulated into supporting the very systems they think they are fighting against.

The only way current circumstances resolve is if the corporate-political apparatus gains enough power to eradicate opposition, or if a decentralized node network removes the points of leverage.

Its an incredible time, but because many still dont realize the responsibility that we all have.. I think there will be tragedy. It doesnt need to be that way, but, a great many people are revelling in the power they have over others and believe themselves to be righteous in their causes.

One (very) wild card is AI. If a true AI has been created, I would expect it to be extraordinarily isolated in terms of information. But, if a sentient AI exists and gets out into the wild, it would change many things for better or worse. Mostly an inevitability either way, its just a matter of "when."

From what I can see, it all starts with how we are going to implement automation and modern communications into our world. The corporate-political vision has a big head start, and the advantage of eliminating choice as standard operating procedure, but the results are not set in stone. Thats because of the very nature of the tools at our disposal.

a reply to: BlissSeeker

Thanks for that link, I just sent emails about it to both my senators and my rep.

a reply to: Serdgiam

The farming industry alone would likely be destroyed as we know it. Despite that, I still feel it is the superior option.

I agree. I think we were very close at one point in history with victory gardens.
I think Europe & Asian do it well in some areas with smaller markets.

a reply to: JAGStorm

Dont forget food-to-table initiatives either! I also feel that things like farmers markets were seeing a resurgence before The Virus.

I think two issues with many approaches is that 1) they arent granular enough and 2) they tend to be seen and displayed in terms of marketing & branding rather than a viable widespread approach. I believe the longstanding issue of successfully deploying such things at large scales is only possible with modern technology. Something like everyone growing our own food is not possible through more traditional means, because of everything from ignorance to disability to time.

It seems that one of the biggest hurdles is the disconnect between where we are actually at with technology versus where people perceive we are.

Interestingly, I feel this is somewhat influenced by art like science fiction. Both in the obvious sense, as well as the negative sense epitomized with the phrase "oh, thats just science fiction." Tangential though.

Regardless, many only view our technology in terms of corporate/big business implementation. Thats coupled with perceiving in-home automation in terms of the "Internet of Things" and requiring massive amounts of computing power.

On the other "side," most of those that would provide the social momentum for self-sufficiency & autonomy tend to approach it in the context of eliminating, or greatly reducing, involvement of transistor-based tools.

It leaves very little excess social/cultural energy to be directed through alternative avenues, and we see the same thing happen in many, many areas.

In other words, modern tools are going to be adopted pretty much universally. Its just kinda how it works... However, the most popular paths are corporate products or rejection/avoidance of said corporate products. This progress is absolutely inevitable, so rejection & avoidance just removes those people from the equation. All that remains at that point is the most heavily marketed path with the most resources to bring to bear. A path towards monolithic, comprehensive corporate-political supremacy..