The Volition of The Agent

I try not to indulge philosophy and metaphysics to intensely. There's enough mental masturbation to drown in.

I guess you could say something drove me to make the decision to post this thread after reading another thread.

And here it is:


Meet our independent agent.

The agent ignores advice, indoctrinated social decorum, moral deterrents, and makes a series of incredibly irresponsible decisions that are bound to have repercussions.

The agent's decision to do so was determined by an amalgamation of circumstance and mental processes which sculpted the agent and the eventual choices made.

As it is now recorded and viewed in retrospect everything The Agent did to this point can be attributed to something.

The agents future is a bit more hazy.

Consequences are assured by agents past negligence. Repercussions for selfish and irresponsible behavior and decisions are now going to result.

While probability remains high for certain outcomes it is impossible to determine the results or the severity of actions to come with any degree of certainty because other agents exist and contribute to the outcome.

Other agents will decide the appropriate course of action. The exact nature of repercussions is unknown. Except that there will be repercussions eventually.

And the results that occur will likewise be an amalgamation of another agent's circumstance, mental processes, and can be absolutely determinined in retrospect.

****************************

Where the cause is concerned could the agent have done anything different or was it as automated as a computer program to make those decisions?

Where the effect is concerned could any of that alone absolutely determine its location and form?

Does the existence of the other agents give the primary agent in this a false illusion of indeterminate outcome?

Is this just another battlefield for quantum and Newtonian physics?

a reply to: Degradation33


This sounds exactly like me before I met my lovely wife.

a reply to: 19Bones79

Haha.

Sounds about right.

That or a college dorm room with all my equally socially incapable and swagger-deprived nerd friends.

a reply to: Degradation33

Well.... At least they had the good sense to attend a college.


-My Lovely wife

a reply to: Degradation33

sounds like a relationship/couples? Any more hints so I can put it in context?

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

When your better half says: "I'm fine. It's nothing."

This is what they're thinking.

a reply to: 19Bones79

yeah I think so

a reply to: Degradation33

Oooh it's like a philosophical riddle, the sphinx would love this.

Where the cause is concerned could the agent have done anything different or was it as automated as a computer program to make those decisions?

Where the effect is concerned could any of that alone absolutely determine its location and form?

Does the existence of the other agents give the primary agent in this a false illusion of indeterminate outcome?

Is this just another battlefield for quantum and Newtonian physics?

What we have here is the question if free will exists, if there are any dominant factors that determine the future, the question how the fundamental interconnectedness of all things is influencing the agent/-s and vice versa and the last one is equivalent to asking if physics can describe consciousness.

...good luck with that, seems like quite the big project.

a reply to: Degradation33

True randomness has never been found to exist...not yet anyway...

Does that mean it doesn't exist? No...but looks likely so far...

So..either nothing is steering our destiny...including Free Will...

Or....Something is steering our destiny....in spite of Free Will...

So...I hope I've muddied it up...now I'll leave...


SnF

Perhaps the independent agent is a spy, which makes for reason of so many fallacy because it is not your agent but maybe something else's.

Observing said agent with a suspect eye may help you understand better.

a reply to: Degradation33

Trust in percentages.

a reply to: Degradation33

Thank you to all who indulged this "deep existential thought" thread.

Here are my views on the problem of Free Will:

I think the present is a barrier between two incompatible facets of existence like the barrier between the quantum and Newtonian world. They even have the same uncertain location access issues.

Everyone tries to make it compatible. Libertarianism fails in retrospect (because you didn't do it differently) and determinism fails in prognostication because of uncertainty.

In precognition experiments even though there is 10 second lag in our decisions, it is only slightly more than 50% predictable to an outside observer. Even though the brain scans can see your decision 10 seconds prior, the predictability of that is still very much still unknown until 10 seconds before. This puts a mark on hard determinism's prognostic accuracy.

You can recreate all initial conditions except for the whims of the participant (regardless of their own cognition of that), and why they might choose the left button this time on the 4th decision.

To argue this is the volition of a divine predetermined program is lacking, as the decision would be instantaneous and accurate if that were true.

* Unless said divine program is operating like adaptive software and grants liberty of choice to the many "independent" agents. But at that point it becomes extraneous to the process.

All said my opinion is that the interconnectedness of the many is the only reason chance and probability exists for the primary (you), and the only reason the barrier between these incompatible views arises.

We think therefore we are. All of us, separately like a diverse ecosystem or intertwining cause and effect.

In short: An illusion of Indeterminism arises through the many agents following their own deterministic trajectory.

a reply to: Degradation33

It's not exactly science but ... I can only convey this in metaphors so widen your imagination for a moment:
Life is a bearer of consciousness, from small to big, ie single cell to systems of cells like us, each of those cells has an inbuilt primary function as compiler of quantum information.
That quantum information is the quint essence of the All, more than just the material universe encompassing especially every event at every time.

And the single cell can make decisions, the different big and bigger systems of cells can make decisions, the kick is those decisions only influence the trajectory from event to event.
Possibly the trick to precognition of those events is less knowledge and more communication. Swinging with the flow.

Where the cause is concerned could the agent have done anything different or was it as automated as a computer program to make those decisions?

Perhaps the avalability of other choices is
based on the vibrational state of the individual?

Where the effect is concerned could any of that alone absolutely determine its location and form?

Depends. Sometimes the Universe makes you "pay" lump sum.
Then again some are obliged to "pay" for their sins via "installments"
(Perhaps even "installments " spread out over several lifetimes?)
It's the Universe's decision to do what needs to be done
to "Balance the Books"
Balance is the key .