The Templar fleet, Pirates, Scottish Masons, and the founding of the US

I am looking for more information on the chronological developments that suggest the Templars who escaped France by sea under the skull and bones flag, Friday, October the 13th, 1307 sought safe haven in Scotland, and later resurfaced as Freemasons, who later founded the US. It is a very compelling solution to many historical mysteries, and I for one have not yet seen any theories that can do a better job of answering those questions.
But, if true, then Pirates are a key part of the birth of a nation. AArgh matey.

Do you really think that that is a more logical theory than that masons are just descended from the medieval stonemason guilds of England and Europe?

I'm personally undecided, but, for me, the simplest answer is the most logical.

what secrets could stonemasons have that could cost a brother his home
or life? what secrets that would require the blood oaths that are spoken in rememberence today?

Is there not a line in the MM degree or one of the lectures that says "this
degree will make you a brother to pirates and corsairs", or similar?


I read some where in an account of the temple properties in Ireland that
the Temples had been stripped bare of weapons and armor. as I recall
in one they found 1 sword - broken and 1 shield - in need of repair.

On the other hand we will probably never know conclusively either way.

They didn't just hide out in Scotland, they also took to the islands...

Some say Spain, some say the Mediteranean, and others say Barbados...

I don't know about the pirate flag, I've heard it but never confirmed it...

All we know for sure is the fact that their homes burnt, many were murdered in their sleep, and the coffers looted by the king's men...all in one night of fire and blood...

Dirty deeds..dirty deeds indeed...

Do you really think that that is a more logical theory than that masons are just descended from the medieval stonemason guilds of England and Europe?

I'm personally undecided, but, for me, the simplest answer is the most logical.
sebatwork

Yes I do. The skull and bones is a known masonic symbol. The org. of DeMolay is a Masonic fraternity of sons of Masons, J. DeMolay was the last Templar leader. The Masons called the guard at the entrance to their meetings the Tyler, same as the Templars. The Sinclairs of Scotland built a chapel finished 50 yrs. pre Colombus, that has corn and aloe vera plants carved inside. They also have a long Templar association and French family ties. The oldest known Masonic gravesites are medieval ones in Scotland, and they are not stonemasons graves. They are knights.
Robert Bruce and 5 000 Scots routed 20 000 better equipped English soldiers at Bannockburn shortly after the Templar fleet had disappeared from La Rochelle, France, under the captaincy of Jolly Roger, the Templar fleet commander. The Scots used the latest military strategies to beat the English, which were only known to knights who had recently fought in the Holy Land.
The Freemasons Lodge membership roles are filled with judges, lawyers, politicians, nobility, military personnel, etc.
Where are the stone masons? Certainly they were members, as some very amazing builders applied the new scientific principles gathered in the
Crusades from the Muslims libraries, and covered Europe in Gothic Cathedrals of unique quality and design.
then there is Henry Sinclairs trips to Nova Scotia in the 1390's which are historically accepted now. These journeys were to the very stretch of coastline where Oak Island is, home to one of the most cunningly securely engineered deep pits ever noted. It never was cracked. The task of physically doing the job required lots of skilled manpower, which is where the Templar fleet, under the skull and bones, full of such men, comes in.
Then in conclusion, I see the epitome of America's founders, George Washington, a freemason. Ben Franklin, the first Postmaster General/Spymaster General, a freemason......
Hmmmm, and then there is George Bush and the Skull n Bones Fraternity.
I don't look at all this and see, simple stonemasons......I see ancient nobility and their protectors.
And I didn't even get into Rennes Les Chateaux.

All we know for sure is the fact that their homes burnt, many were murdered in their sleep, and the coffers looted by the king's men...all in one night of fire and blood...

Dirty deeds..dirty deeds indeed...
WyrdeOne

Not to be overly anal, but it was actually carried out at dawn of Friday, October 13, 1307, not at night. The coffers were apparently mostly empty. The main Commandery in Paris was sans tresoir, which likely pissed off Phillip the 'Fair'. The up to 20 000 Templars arrested that morning were subjected to 7 years of torture, inquisition, burnt at the stake, and made to confess to heinous deeds against the church, as their arms were being dislocated, or their feet roasted off. One was recorded as saying he would admit to killing God under such conditions.

Then in 1314, their last leader Jacques DeMolay was publicly burnt at the stake in Paris. He allegedly requested permission to tell the gathered crowd how sorry he was for their crimes, but instead told them that it was all a frame up, and invited the king and pope to come see him within the year. Allegedly. It is a fact though that they both did.

I agree, dirty deeds indeed. And I just scratched the surface. It took Phillip quite some time to get the right pope in place to approve his plan. The third one finally caved to his, by then very believable, (2 dead popes), threats.

Check out the Money Pit and it's ties to the Knights Templar. I saw that on some history channel show a while back and have been meaning to dig into it.

then there is Henry Sinclairs trips to Nova Scotia in the 1390's which are historically accepted now. These journeys were to the very stretch of coastline where Oak Island is, home to one of the most cunningly securely engineered deep pits ever noted. It never was cracked. The task of physically doing the job required lots of skilled manpower, which is where the Templar fleet, under the skull and bones, full of such men, comes in.
BG13

"The Lost Treasure of the Templars: Solving the Oak Island Mystery" Steven Sora

"Treasure Islands: the fascinating world of pirates, buried treasure, and fortune hunters." Cameron Platt and John Wright page 40.

Those are two good books on it.
Also, any books on Roslin Chapel, Scotland, Henry Sinclair's voyages to America 1395-98, are also relevent.
The Nova Scotia stone castle foundations that overlook Oak Island, and remain ignored by Nova Scotia and Canada archeologists to this day, are worth looking into too. There is another book about the Grail across the Atlantic. It has good information as well.

The only thing i know that might help, is the treaty with the barbary pirates, performed by the founding fathers...
the Barbary Pirates refused to sign a treaty with a Christian based nation...

This provided the best proof today, that the founding fathers had no intention of making this a Christian Nation... but a generalized "deistic one".
We do know that many Founding Fathers were connected to the masonic movement.

I also saw on the History channel Documentary, that the masons we see today, were primarily the result of the intellectuals using the masons (the stoneworkers) unions as a place of security, while they explored science, philosophy, and higher thinking than the Church would have approved of at the time... Joining the intellectuals, with the stoneworking artisans... a true non-caste union, at a time when it was unheard of.

All this debate about the Templars setting up the Mason's is doing me head in. This is fact..............When the Templars fled Europe on Friday the 13th, the eventually ended up in Scotland.

After helping The Bruce defeat King Edwards army (who was financed by the Pope), they were granted safe haven in Scotland and were the architects behind Rosslyn Chapel, which is meant to be in exact shape and proportion to Solomons Temple (The Templars should know, they were there). Every so often there is a Templar Parade at Rosslyn, with the Traditional White Tunic with the Red Cross being worn. This parade is also attended by senior Masons and members of Pagan Witch Covens.

If are still unconvinced check out this link

www.rosslyntemplars.org.uk...

[edit on 9-6-2006 by Pictnation]

as far as I know there has never been any indication found that the Templar fleet
landed in any christian port after 1307, nor is there any that they landed in any Muslim port. The Fleet just seems to disappear after leaving La Rochelle.

There are many things that suggest Scotland as a safe haven.

first King Robert and any who supported him had been excommunicated by dapope.
so neither the vatican nor any christian state could treat with them.

the orders for arrest and later disillusionment had no bearing in Scotland or on
people that were excommunicate.

The training of Bruces army seems to have changed dramatically between 1307
and 1314.

the list is quite long so I wont Bore you with it all.



The skull and bones flag ( jolly roger) as I recall was first used by a Templar ships
captian, He left or was expeled (reputedly) from the order. He became a Pirate( mid 1200s) and very wealthy, but maintained some kind of ties with the order.
As I recall His name was Roger Joly but I could be wrong.

If you can recall, could you tell me where you might have read that Roger Bellechance, or Jolly Roger, was expelled from the Templars? I had not heard that. The only thing I have read was that he was the leader of the Templar fleet, and may have led them out of France in 1307 to parts unknown (Scotland?). I have read that Portugal let Templars remain, but told them to change their name. Also, The Knights of Malta may descend from Templars as well. The Knights of St. John Hospitaller, of ambulance fame, are said to have accepted some fugitive Templars into their ranks. This is not unlikely, as they fought side by side in the Holy Lands.
The fact that St. Claire was the surname of one of the earliest Templar Knights, and that the Scottish Sinclairs are directly related to the French St. Claires, and that Henry Sinclair is shown wearing a white tunic with a red Templar cross on it in a portrait, all suggest a Sinclair/Templar connection. To me, that is obvious. To others, it is just coincidence, along with all the other bits of evidence that suggest a link.

Well skull & bones on a black flag makes everyone think of pirates. If you spend a very short period of time looking into the bizzare world of LAW & legaleze "word magic" by lawyers who belong to the Bar association (Temple Bar of the inner, outer, & middle court in the principality of the City of London which exists inside London England, a seperate small country like the Vatican in Rome, with it's own laws seperate from the UK, which also holds the Bank of England and free masonary's grandest lodge). One can only realize that when the monarchs of Europe began to bring the law of the sea (Maritime/Admiralty law) on the the land to replace common law which protected too many unalienable rights from God, all gov'ts would basically become a pirates on land engaged in using the maritime/admiralty law to harvest the serfs, peasants, & slaves wealth.
Make no mistake, we are all governed by the law of the sea, your court rooms are actually ships in a port with dry dock privileges. The judge is captain, you have no rights on his ship. I could go on & on but here are some links to help you realize the biggest scam/hoax going on around the world today. Just read your Acts of parliament or american equivalent. Watch the movie "the new world" with Collin Farell that went straight to DVD. You can actually see early America being run like a ship on land with the captain being called the president, the Flag being flown on the fort like the ship at sea.
www.admiraltylawguide.com...
here is how the banks took over: www.1800jonesact.com...
follow all the links on this one: en.wikipedia.org...
stay tuned for part 2 coming up.

Hi BoB

Sorry to rain on your parade in what is a very interesting thread, but I'm afraid some of the above isn't true. The 'Temple' is just a name given to historical legal area in London and it doesn't have any special legal or political status. The Bank of England is situated in the heart of the City over a mile away, and Freemasons Hall is over a mile in the other direction, in Covent Garden. If you know London at all you will know that a mile is a very long way! Check out the Wiki link

You might be thinking of the City of London, an area of approx. one square mile in the heart of London. It is autonomous from the rest of London - it has its own police force and local ordinances, but is most definately part of England. A US analogy might be a city within a city, like Beverly Hills surrounded by Los Angeles. FYI Freemasons Hall is in the borough of Westminster, not the City of London.

(edit - can't spell )

[edit on 19-6-2006 by Trinityman]

The templars are running things, banks & free masonary & the law/Bar association (Temple Bar) They are in control of absolutely everything. en.wikipedia.org...
This following post is part of the tax protest movement in western Canada.
"Also I've been looking into many alternate explanations to what is going on in our legal system. I really am starting to think Russel A. Porisky was moved into a common law court because he demanded to have the court remove his nom-degerre (military name registration) therefore the court could not consider him an officer. All court rooms have Canadian & Provincial flags on display behind the Judge and in front of the Queen. FLAGS DETERMINE COURT JURISDICTION AND THE LAW. Flags with gold fringe, gold braid, gold eagle, gold spear, or gold ball atop the flagpole establishes the jurisdiction of the admiralty, maritime or administration jurisdiction. The flags in most Canadian Court rooms have a Maple Leaf atop the pole representing a SPEAR point and therefore establishing a military jurisdiction or a ball a top representing the last cannon ball fired showing maritime admiralty jurisdiction. Military Admiralty & Maritime Courts are guilty until proven innocent and allow the seizure of property as war booty.
Everytime law enforcement, CCRA, IRS seize property they post notices in newspapers in case anyone else has claim to the property under statutes of maritime law. www.apfn.org... scroll down and see the newspaper clipping!

I have personally seen similar statements in Canadian Newspapers. Check the legal notice section in the classifieds! Not to mention the French Colonies of Quebec were given a Royal Charter by the French King. Charters are given to corporations & ships. The Flag of Quebec City is a ship on a Navy Blue back ground.
The English Captured Quebec and have continued to Run Canada as a ship ever since. Many other Provincial flags have ships on them as well.
en.wikipedia.org...
Anyways here is one of many links to laws about Flags: www.apfn.org...
I think next time Eva is in Court she should remind the Judge she is not a member of the Armed Forces and ask the Judge to remove the maple leaf and or balls on top of the flag poles. If she uses the religious angle she should remind the court that she is not a military chaplain.
I think the natural person defence with all our unalienable rights can only be established after the court is made aware that we are not an officer of any armed forces, police force, or gov't body. I was wondering if Russ can remember what the flag looked like when he was in the common law court?
I'm willing to bet the flag was in front of the Judge therefore establishing common law instead of Admiralty/Maritime/Military Jurisdiction. This would also explain the remuneration of military script. Civilians were allowed to use military script in the French-Indian War & the American Civil War. Lincoln's Greenbacks were military script."
The above sample is from bits & pieces i've seen on the web & law books which is successfully being used in a tax protest movement in western Canada & Ontario.
www.naturalperson.com...
Eva Sendal is currently being prosecuted by CCRA (Canadian IRS).
Russ Porisky was prosecuted by CCRA and won by moving from admiralty law into common law courts still existing in remote areas of Canada that are kept secret for just the wealthy & powerful guys, remember that the law of the sea was formed after the law of the land and the law of the land gives the authority to bring the law of the sea. City of London: en.wikipedia.org...
The templars did this, the banks did this, the international bankers are the templars.
I"M NOT CRAZY, this is the biggest scam on earth
Now you know why you can't win in court. Justice means "JUST US" elite

Thanks for your link to Temple Bar on Wiki - very interesting... I didn't know it was dismantled and sent up to the country only to recently return as part of a property development project. However I didn't see any connection between that Wiki link and your original assertion above.

Needless to say, the 'Templars' are not running either the Banks, Freemasonry or the Bar Association. You will find that the Banks are, for the most part, run by their shareholders and freemasonry is run by its membership. You can read about how the Bar Association is structured here.

The Templars may or may not have made their way to Scotland in the early 14th Century. From there, they may or may not have joined emergent speculative masonic lodges in the 16th century. A Side Order, the Knghts' Templar, certainly honors the memory of the Templars, but what role real live gen-u-ine Templars had in its creation is a matter of speculation.

I think it would probably be reasonable to assert that the Templars may have had some influence on emergent speculative freemasonry in Scotland, but they would be just one of a number of influences on the development of the Craft (Ancient Egypt, anyone? ). But to say they are running things now? I think not.

(edit - my spelling really is going down the khazi today )

[edit on 19-6-2006 by Trinityman]

[edit on 19-6-2006 by Trinityman]

As I recall it wasn't an expulsion as such. More that he "withdrew " from the order. Maybe. The Rumor was that he continued for many years as an "agent or Operative"
of the order for several years.

The corparation of the city of london is bigger than you think: look at the coat of arms & flag it is the same as the templars:
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org... LOOK!!!!!!!!

Who became a freeman: Alan Greenspan (federal reserve U.S.) & he was knighted even though americans are not suppossed to have titles of nobility.
All lawyers are esquires: one rank below knight.

www.cityoflondon.gov.uk...

Something fishy is going on. The templebar.......this link is pretty much self explanatory:www.innertemplelibrary.org.uk...
Temple bank: en.wikipedia.org...

here is a bizzare link but once again it explains:
www.marijuanapartyofalberta.com...
www.conspiracyarchive.com...

Er... no. Its exactly the same size as I think. About one square mile. Hence is derived its nickname - the 'Square Mile'.


Okay, okay. No need to shout. I looked, but I couldn't find a coat of arms for the Knight's Templar. Unless you are referring to the Cross of St. George???


I don't know if Alan Greenspan is a freemason, but so what if he is? There is no bar on bankers as members.


Foreigners can receive honorary knighthoods from Her Majesty - it's quite common. Recent recipients include Bill Gates and Giuliani. Any honorarium presented to an American citizen is Nice To Have but doesn't entitle the recepient to anything other than a possible free G&T from an over-impressionable barmaid. In either country.


Really? Gosh I am learning a lot from you today. And I thought that a Knight was the lowest official honor in the formal Order of Precedence? Look a little harder and you may find that the term 'Esquire' has no fixed meaning, and is broadly analogous with the term 'gentleman'. It has been out of use for some time now, except amongst those who address their letters in the rather old-fashioned way.

"To Mr. Marmaduke BattleofBatoche, Esq."


Actually it's not. Care to explain what point this link is demonstrating?


Too right. Marijuana Party of Alberta? And good ol' Illuminati Conspiracy Archive. Both seem to be copying the same rubbish from each other as these links give the same utter twaddle out as fact.

Revisionist histories, and What-If Scenarios, can be quite entertaining. But passing this disingenuous half-baked poppycock off as if it were true is staggeringly irresponsible as there is a serious danger that some impressionable individual will come along and swallow the whole sorry story hook, line and sinker. Not that that applies to anyone around here I'm sure.

Right and lawyers are a couple levels lower than RATS. There are some things even a rat won't do.