The discovery of possible Alien life on Venus points to Panspermia not Abiogenesis

This is an exciting but sad day for space exploration because we should be way past the point where news like this surprises us.

A Possible Sign Of Life Right Next Door To Earth, On Venus

Scientists say they've detected a gas in the clouds of Venus that, on Earth, is produced by microbial life.

The researchers have racked their brains trying to understand why this toxic gas, phosphine, is there in such quantities, but they can't think of any geologic or chemical explanation.

The mystery raises the astonishing possibility that Venus, the planet that comes closest to Earth as it whizzes around the sun, might have some kind of life flourishing more than 30 miles up in its yellow, hazy clouds.

All in all, it seems like an unlikely place for life. Nonetheless, the new report in the journal Nature Astronomy has astrobiologists and planetary scientists talking. Two different telescopes, at two different times, looked at Venus and saw the chemical signature that is unique to phosphine. If this gas is really there, Venus has either got some kind of geologic or chemical activity going on that no one understands, or alien life might be living right next door.

www.npr.org...

The reason this is sad because news like this should be greeted as expected news and more money should be put into space exploration than into meaningless political squabbles.

The main reasons why we're behind in this area is pseudoskeptics and many scientist pushing the fantasy of abiogenesis. Abiogenesis has really set us back when it comes to space exploration. This gives birth to the silly and egocentric notion that life in the universe must start like it does on earth. When you say this, you put a limit on how life can evolve and it's based on nothing.

You're saying, that life on earth dictates the pathways that can lead to life throughout the universe.

THIS IS ASININE!

Sadly, it has kept us in Plato's cave when it comes to Space Exploration because anyone that mentioned Panspermia was ostracized and called "outside of the mainstream" for many years.

I'm glad the tide is turning and most if not all of the evidence points to Panspermia. It says the planets are seeded with life and then life finds a way to adapt and survive in the harshest environments. We see that with extremophiles.

Pseudoskeptics show up everytime you talk about extraterrestrials with the same silly arguments. For some reason these faux skeptics fear the idea of life outside of earth. I think this is because if life exists outside of earth, then their could be intelligent life that mights be connected to who the ancients called gods and to religions.

Let me list some of the evidence.

1. The recent Venus discovery.

2. The building blocks of life found on comets, meteorites and space dust.

3. Extremophiles

4. The possibility of proteins forming in space that's found on a meteorite.

5. Exoplanets

6. A recent headline "NASA Just Revealed an Ocean on Enceladus Contains The Building Blocks of Life."

7. More headlines "Are Planets with Oceans Common in the Galaxy? It’s Likely, NASA Scientists Find" "Rainbow meteorite discovered in Costa Rica may hold building blocks of life"

8. The Government acknowledging U.F.O.'s or what they call U.A.P.'s.

9.Common Sense

The universe seems fined tuned for life whether it comes from a Creator or through a gazillion parallel universes is another debate. These planets are places that life is seeded and then it evolves. It finds a way. Most pathways end up with microbial life. We should find microbial life throughout the solar system. We should find it on Mars, Enceledus, Titan, Europa, Venus and more. I wouldn't be suprised if we found multicellular life on some of those places.

The universe is probaly has intelligent life in different forms. I don't think earth is the only pathway that leads to intelligent life. There's probably more efficient pathways.

If Panspermia was more accepted years ago, we would be further along in space exploration and news like this wouldn't be surprising, it would be expected.

a reply to: neoholographic

You're getting quite far ahead of yourself here.

The problem with panspermia is not that life has to evolve on Earth only, it's that it doesn't explain how it evolves, it's just moving the goalpost.

I like Lynn Margulis and Symbiogenesis, it would be actually quite dumb to assume that process doesn't happen everywhere it can.
No panspermia required.

a reply to: neoholographic

My question is how do they think life can survive on a planet with a temp of 880F...

the hottest planet in the solar system doesn't seem like a logical place to find life

Not saying it isn't possible... just hard to believe

a reply to: neoholographic
The evidence you need
So not abiogenesis, creation then
Here here, totally agree


“A possible sign” and like a religious fundamentalist that is your evidence, all the evidence you need?
Well done

a reply to: Akragon

It has long been speculated that life would be possible in the clouds which are a permanent fixture at about 30 km above the surface. Much cooler up there.

While the temperature is reasonable. The sulfuric acid content could be problematic.

a reply to: Phage

I've heard the same thing about the clouds of Jupiter... something about balloon like critters floating on the air currents

Perhaps microbial life in the clouds of Venus is possible, but again... hard to believe

Just because they found phosphine on the planet doesn't mean it couldn't have occurred naturally

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: neoholographic

My question is how do they think life can survive on a planet with a temp of 880F...

the hottest planet in the solar system doesn't seem like a logical place to find life

Not saying it isn't possible... just hard to believe

We find life surviving in extreme conditions. Here's an extremophile ironically called Venus Hair.

Extreme "Venus's Hair" Lifeform Found Thriving On Freshly Erupted Lava

As this bacteria thrives in its hostile environment, it is classified as a type of “extremophile”. It appears to use the sulfur and nitrate effusions to generate energy, and it’s likely that the destruction of all former life allowed it to quickly swoop in and colonize the shattered underwater volcano.

It’s long been known that there are extremophiles in every single hostile environment on the planet, from beneath the Antarctic Ice Sheet to within superheated, deep-sea hydrothermal vents.

However, this bacteria was found immediately colonizing a post-eruption surface, which is a relatively new phenomenon. Far from being wary of it, they’re even using the volcanic heat itself to help their metabolic processes operate. This mechanism, then, could even hint at how alien life on other volcanic planets and moons could exist.

Rather wonderfully, the emergence of T. veneris doesn’t just show how life finds a way to keep itself going even in the event of a devastating natural disaster. The emergence of bacteria tends to eventually support the colonization of the area by larger and more complex forms of life, and indeed, this is what the team observed at Tagoro.

www.iflscience.com...

Life finds a way so are ideas as to what is life or what pathways life can use to survive can be egocentric.

a reply to: neoholographic

Your source is a bit misleading. It makes it sound like the lava was very hot. It wasn't. The bacteria was found on lava from an undersea eruption, three years after the eruption. Not really an "extreme" environment, but interesting. An entire ecology formed quite rapidly. Same thing happened quite soon after the devastation of Mt. Saint Helens, actually. Sort of.

How did such a major community of organisms escape our notice so long? That’s easy. It’s located on the bottom of the ocean, a place we still know far less about than the surface of Mars.

blogs.scientificamerican.com...

a reply to: neoholographic

If it is found that life exists on Venus, im gonna go with abiogenesis on earth and panspermia on Venus via earth.

Couldn't agree more. The idea that life has to develop and look like how it looks like on Earth is so arrogant. For all we know, there could be living beings on every planet but we just can't see them. They would function in ways beyond our comprehension and anything we know on Earth.

They always do this. They give "hopeful" information and then they pull the rug rom under us and say it's somehow "unlikely." Indeed, it's like they really are scared of life existing everywhere. Hiding something?
I would be more excited about this news a few years ago but because of this pattern and the fact that NASA can't be trusted has made me even more skeptical about space in general and what's really out there.

a reply to: DarkestConspiracyMoon

Hiding something?

Makes no sense.

Remember the Mars meteorite which had something that looked like it might have been alive at some time? Mars missions became a very hot topic then. Funding went way up.

This could result in some nice grants for these folks.

originally posted by: neoholographic

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: neoholographic

My question is how do they think life can survive on a planet with a temp of 880F...

the hottest planet in the solar system doesn't seem like a logical place to find life

Not saying it isn't possible... just hard to believe

We find life surviving in extreme conditions. Here's an extremophile ironically called Venus Hair.

Extreme "Venus's Hair" Lifeform Found Thriving On Freshly Erupted Lava

As this bacteria thrives in its hostile environment, it is classified as a type of “extremophile”. It appears to use the sulfur and nitrate effusions to generate energy, and it’s likely that the destruction of all former life allowed it to quickly swoop in and colonize the shattered underwater volcano.

It’s long been known that there are extremophiles in every single hostile environment on the planet, from beneath the Antarctic Ice Sheet to within superheated, deep-sea hydrothermal vents.

However, this bacteria was found immediately colonizing a post-eruption surface, which is a relatively new phenomenon. Far from being wary of it, they’re even using the volcanic heat itself to help their metabolic processes operate. This mechanism, then, could even hint at how alien life on other volcanic planets and moons could exist.

Rather wonderfully, the emergence of T. veneris doesn’t just show how life finds a way to keep itself going even in the event of a devastating natural disaster. The emergence of bacteria tends to eventually support the colonization of the area by larger and more complex forms of life, and indeed, this is what the team observed at Tagoro.

www.iflscience.com...

Life finds a way so are ideas as to what is life or what pathways life can use to survive can be egocentric.

Who's to say this kind of bacteria didn't hitch a ride on one of our probes to Venus?

a reply to: AndyFromMichigan

Who's to say this kind of bacteria didn't hitch a ride on one of our probes to Venus?

Because it lives underwater it would be unlikely to end up on a probe? And less likely to survive on a planet with very, very little water?

Of course, none of it matters until they find a way to confirm or deny the speculation one way or the other. That's going to take some time and ingenuity.

And I know someone was saying that this stuff could also form inside a gas giant. Well, Venus does have some massive surface pressures.

At any rate, in the meantime, it's an exciting possibility to consider.

a reply to: ketsuko

Well, Venus does have some massive surface pressures.

Nowhere near that of the interior of a gas giant.

The astrochemists are going to have a blast with this though, more so than any astrobiologist can.

Excuse my extreme ignorance on this subject but I'm curious about how they know what it is they're looking it.

Two different telescopes, at two different times, looked at Venus and saw the chemical signature that is unique to phosphine.

How does a telescope identify chemical signatures and is it possible that more than one "thing" can have the same signature?

a reply to: TXRabbit

How does a telescope identify chemical signatures and is it possible that more than one "thing" can have the same signature?

1) It's called spectroscopy. Analysis of the absorption spectrum at certain wavelengths. It is very well established science dating back to a fellow named Fraunhofer in the early 19th century.

2) Not really, but there could be "noise" which interferes with the data. The fact that two (radio) telescopes produced the same results is very strong evidence but further observations will be made when conditions are more favorable (when Venus is not quite as far away as it is now).

a reply to: neoholographic

This is so awesome!

Are the two ideas mutually exclusive?

Maybe there are multiple formulas for life.

a reply to: neoholographic

There's no telling how much life is out there. Nobody knows because nobody has the equipment to go check it out. I think there's life out there, but looking at a cloud through a telescope and determining what that cloud is made of is the silly part. And it's silly to think that the same makeup of life on Earth is the same makeup of life on other planets. There are different resources and different life sustainability on different planets, including Venus. The best way to find out is to go there and collect samples, until then, we don't know what's up there.

a reply to: Phage

It's still not a fact until someone can physically check it out. It's all speculation.