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Officers' pre-trial Defense in George Floyd death

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posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 12:11 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: Lysergic
I didn't mean to kneel on him for 9 minutes your honor.

IDK man, seems like they knew eachother and there was more going on than me and you will ever actually know.

Instead it got swept up into what it has become, I dont care what Floyd had done in his life but kneel on mans neck... idk man you got all those damn tools on that belt and back up etc yet you went with this move.

Face the music, you basically caused all these stupid #ing riots because of your idiotic actions.


If he was trained to do that, its not his bad. Its the fault of the people who trained him to do it, and approved of it prior to the incident.


I'm going to disagree with you on that, training or not, you know when you've gone too far and I'm betting he knew full well that he had.




posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 12:12 PM
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a reply to: Lysergic

Not random internet folk. The user who posted the video of her harassing him. The video is a slander. Like I said, he may not win. But you can't tell me that the trend of social media folks being obnoxious to get page views doesn't need to be challenged.



posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 12:12 PM
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originally posted by: HalWesten

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: DeathSlayer


Oh....except Floyds family is now rich with millions.... Now they can hire a white butler, white cook, white maids, and white driver....



Proof if ever needed that there is no such thing as 'white privilage'


If four officers can't restrain a perp without a knee on his neck for nine minutes they should be picking up dog poop in the park.


☝This.



posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 12:16 PM
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originally posted by: HalWesten

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: Lysergic
I didn't mean to kneel on him for 9 minutes your honor.

IDK man, seems like they knew eachother and there was more going on than me and you will ever actually know.

Instead it got swept up into what it has become, I dont care what Floyd had done in his life but kneel on mans neck... idk man you got all those damn tools on that belt and back up etc yet you went with this move.

Face the music, you basically caused all these stupid #ing riots because of your idiotic actions.


If he was trained to do that, its not his bad. Its the fault of the people who trained him to do it, and approved of it prior to the incident.


I'm going to disagree with you on that, training or not, you know when you've gone too far and I'm betting he knew full well that he had.



While you may bet on it...there is still reasonable doubt just in that alone. Without some other evidence, you'd need motive or something. Because the training guides officers in this particular use of force.

We cannot divorce officers from an expectation to act as trained. If we do that, then we end up with the wild west. If someone is accountable for a use of force violation, it needs to be documented in policy. it is not.

Now, while I have not read the training material...if it doesn't give time limits, etc...its not his fault. He only did what he is trained to do, in the way he was trained to do it. For all we know he may be an idiot uncapable of solving the equation. Its not like hiring standards are crazy high in most forces. And its not like most forces aren't hiring exmilitary, who will by nature need to have the full documentation of policy and procedure to begin with.



posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 12:18 PM
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a reply to: Lysergic

again, that is not their problem. You can't blame a cop for applying and allowing himself to get hired, trained, and then doing what his training says. That is all, 100% on the folks who run the show.



posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 12:19 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

and we all know how often those above get charged for such.



posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 12:20 PM
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originally posted by: Lysergic
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

and we all know how often those above get charged for such.


Yeah. No doubt. Russiagate is a good example it seems.

But still, i do not support imprisoning officers who uphold the spirit and letter of their training. If this is the case, they should go free and their supervisors should be held to account instead.



posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 12:46 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: HalWesten

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: Lysergic
I didn't mean to kneel on him for 9 minutes your honor.

IDK man, seems like they knew eachother and there was more going on than me and you will ever actually know.

Instead it got swept up into what it has become, I dont care what Floyd had done in his life but kneel on mans neck... idk man you got all those damn tools on that belt and back up etc yet you went with this move.

Face the music, you basically caused all these stupid #ing riots because of your idiotic actions.


If he was trained to do that, its not his bad. Its the fault of the people who trained him to do it, and approved of it prior to the incident.


I'm going to disagree with you on that, training or not, you know when you've gone too far and I'm betting he knew full well that he had.



While you may bet on it...there is still reasonable doubt just in that alone. Without some other evidence, you'd need motive or something. Because the training guides officers in this particular use of force.

We cannot divorce officers from an expectation to act as trained. If we do that, then we end up with the wild west. If someone is accountable for a use of force violation, it needs to be documented in policy. it is not.

Now, while I have not read the training material...if it doesn't give time limits, etc...its not his fault. He only did what he is trained to do, in the way he was trained to do it. For all we know he may be an idiot uncapable of solving the equation. Its not like hiring standards are crazy high in most forces. And its not like most forces aren't hiring exmilitary, who will by nature need to have the full documentation of policy and procedure to begin with.


I understand and agree, however if you have someone in a restraint and they pass out, that is the time to gather your partners and secure that person, not let them die. Trained moves or not, common sense has to prevail in situations like this.



posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 01:04 PM
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a reply to: HalWesten

Having spent 5 years working admissions on a forensic mental health unit, i can say that i don't disagree with you at all on that point.



posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 01:48 PM
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Guy was out and pissed himself, probably was a good time to let up..eh?

Only following orders..lmgdao.

SMDH
edit on 12-9-2020 by vonclod because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 01:51 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

ey Idgaf about their training.

Killing is killing whether done for duty, profit, pleasure, or fun.



posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 02:03 PM
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originally posted by: Lysergic
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

ey Idgaf about their training.

Killing is killing whether done for duty, profit, pleasure, or fun.


Man, the unfortunate side effect of fighting with people is you could accidentally die. George Floyd chose to fight. he made the choice.

Killing is killing. I don't disagree man. But when you decide the play the game, you take that risk. Its why you will never see me fighting with police. Even if I know i could kick the ever loving # out of them. its not worth dying over. And thats not a blast against cops...any fight can get you killed.



posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 03:31 PM
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originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: CryHavoc


Nelson also included Minneapolis Police Department training materials on the proper use of the "Maximal Restraint Technique," in which photos show demonstrations of officers simulating putting their knee on a handcuffed subject's neck. Nelson argued the training material appeared to contradict a statement made shortly after the incident by Minneapolis Police Chief Medaria Arradondo that he had not seen "anything that says you place your knee on someone's neck when they're facedown, handcuffed."


This could work as a defense. Although the prosecutor will argue that the length of time he maintained the hold, especially once the victim was unconscious, will prove that Chauvin was culpable.

It's also worth pointing out that this is pretty much the Nuremberg Defense. Chauvin was just following orders.


Nelson also cited the autopsy conducted on Floyd that found fentanyl and methamphetamine in his system, a combination of drugs Nelson says is known as a speedball. He noted that the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's post-mortem report showed Floyd had arteriosclerotic and hypertensive heart disease, hypertension and sickle cell trait. Floyd also purportedly told the officers that he had contracted COVID-19 and was still positive for the virus at the time of his death, a claim confirmed by his autopsy.


This defense seems nonsensical. Just because a suspect is sick and may soon die does not give an officer justification for an extrajudicial killing. A cop would not be exonerated for shooting a man with terminal cancer for no reason. So why should one be exonerated for essentially choking someone to death that has cardiovascular issues?


Floyd was only unconscious for a very short time, mabye a minute or two, by that time it was already too late, the fentanyl kicked in. For eight of those minutes, he was talking and yelling, then slowly faded off as the Fentanyl was kicking in.



posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 05:43 PM
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There is no case to answer here. Chauvin was doing his job as trained.
If he is found guilty it will be because of mob justice.



posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 05:52 PM
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a reply to: scrounger

He actually did die on scene, EMTs cannot call a death only a physician can do that. Until that happens they will keep doing CPR until they get to hospital even if they are already dead.



posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 06:00 PM
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originally posted by: vonclod
Guy was out and pissed himself, probably was a good time to let up..eh?

Only following orders..lmgdao.

SMDH


You also forgot the people telling him he was killing him. think that would have gave him pause but no not this idiot.



posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 06:04 PM
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A fentanyl overdose would not take long to kill, I think the senario played for too long to support that argument.
The key legal concept in this case is Mens rea


Mens rea (/ˈmɛnz ˈreɪə/; Law Latin for "guilty mind") is the mental element of a person's intention to commit a crime; or knowledge that one's action or lack of action would cause a crime to be committed. It is a necessary element of many crimes


To prove beyond reasonable doubt that it was not accidental in the line of duty will be difficult.
Cops can be thugs, but only the really crazy ones go about murdering people.
These ones should be identified during the screening and training process.

I hope justice will be done with out prejudice.
I fear those who used this to justify their criminality will be not satiated.



edit on 0000009060596America/Chicago12 by rom12345 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 08:32 PM
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originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: vonclod
Guy was out and pissed himself, probably was a good time to let up..eh?

Only following orders..lmgdao.

SMDH


You also forgot the people telling him he was killing him. think that would have gave him pause but no not this idiot.

I tend to think, the people yelling, actually made him continue, he has an us vs them attitude, letting off, in his mind was showing some kind of weakness. Thats what I'm thinking.

Whatever happens in this case, there will be more trouble.



posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 08:35 PM
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originally posted by: vonclod
Guy was out and pissed himself, probably was a good time to let up..eh?

Only following orders..lmgdao.

SMDH


People generally loose their bowels when they are in their death throws, that's what happens when you OD in real life.



posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 08:47 PM
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originally posted by: panoz77

originally posted by: vonclod
Guy was out and pissed himself, probably was a good time to let up..eh?

Only following orders..lmgdao.

SMDH


People generally loose their bowels when they are in their death throws, that's what happens when you OD in real life.

I used to be an addict decades ago, never knew anyone who shat their pants, of course, I'm talking people who lived. In death, often it happens, so it still leaves me wanting an explanation for continuing with the knee? I think he wanted Floyd to remember this, he was doing a little punishment imo, and he probably did not want to let off due to the crowd.




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