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ANTIFA starting fires in Clackamas County OR

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posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 10:54 AM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: jtma508

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: AaarghZombies

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: EnigmaChaser

Since I've been personally affected by these fires. . . . if it is found that an Antifa Marxist did this, I will become somewhat irate.

Maybe even to the point of actual anger.

Just to note, when I become slightly, marginally, irritated I tend to aim for testicles.



The alt-news scene suggests that he was an arsonist who happened to be a member of BLM, and that the two things aren't related. There doesn't seem to be any kind of plot or conspiracy, he's just a regular run of the mill psycho that likes to burn stuff.


For months we've seen nightly, Antifa and BLM committing arson in our streets.

Now we're expected to believe that they don't have anything to do with any of the multitude of fires.



That's BS. There is no proof that the arson is being done by BLM or antifa. Why WOULD they? It works against their agenda. Wouldn't it make more sense for the Alt-Right people to do this and then BLAME BLM/antifa for the fires knowing that Trump will promote that conspiracy? Who stands to gain by the fires and rioting? Did you ever stop fro ask yourself that question? The blame is being heavily promoted by alt-right sources yet the police (who are not particularly fans of BLM/antifa) say there is no evidence AND the DHS has been bagged suppressing intelligence about alt-right involvement. If you all weren't so willfully blind...


So now you trust the police and claim that Trump voters are committing arson.

Your post smells of gasoline and desperation.


Indeed it does have a stench - a common one for the left.

The problem is, his post parrots the msm narrative about ANTIFA. They’re the good guys! Except they’re not..

As for “why would they do this?” - they do it because it’s what they do. They’re anarchists - not “anti-fascist”. They simply are using current state in the PNW to forward their violent agenda. It’s literally that simple.

Lastly - think about the fact that they named themselves “Anti-Fascist” but then they push/support a whole slew of very fascist ideas. But they’re anti-fascist! No, they’re not. It was a brilliant way of packaging a notably fascist, left-wing set of ideas by saying they are against everything they are for.

The left did the same thing with calling people “progressive” - implying they are looking forward and the party of progress - which they most certainly are not.




posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 12:23 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy

So now you trust the police and claim that Trump voters are committing arson.

Your post smells of gasoline and desperation.


Reading comprehension challenges? Did I mention Trump voters? Or are you saying that all Trump voters are alt-right extremists? Did I SAY I trusted the police? What i SAID was:

Who benefits from the riots/looting/fires? Those things play into and provide support for Trump's (absolutely ludicrous) 'Law & Order President' ploy. Create chaos and blame the other side. Duh!

As for the police... for the most part they HATE the BLM/antifa crap. They would tie themselves in knots to provide evidence that those groups are behind it. They've said exactly the opposite. Local AND FBI.

So a little critical thinking and intellectual honesty would serve you well.



posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 01:27 PM
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ANTIFA is setting the stage for mass casualties in Oregon. Most of them fellow Democrats.

www.statesmanjournal.com...



posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 01:40 PM
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originally posted by: jtma508

originally posted by: DBCowboy

So now you trust the police and claim that Trump voters are committing arson.

Your post smells of gasoline and desperation.


Reading comprehension challenges? Did I mention Trump voters? Or are you saying that all Trump voters are alt-right extremists? Did I SAY I trusted the police? What i SAID was:

Who benefits from the riots/looting/fires? Those things play into and provide support for Trump's (absolutely ludicrous) 'Law & Order President' ploy. Create chaos and blame the other side. Duh!

As for the police... for the most part they HATE the BLM/antifa crap. They would tie themselves in knots to provide evidence that those groups are behind it. They've said exactly the opposite. Local AND FBI.

So a little critical thinking and intellectual honesty would serve you well.



That is not true. My best friend lives in Estacada. His family had to chase looters off, and one group actually detained a person starting a fire. Out here, the locals all are aware that people dressed like ANTIFA have been spotted in rural areas from Beaver creek to Corbett trying to start fires. The county sheriff's advised people to be on the lookout for people they do not recognize. One guy was caught dumping gas in an open field, another was throwing molotovs out his subaru window near North fork.

I do not believe what the media is saying, and I do not believe what the sheriff's office said publicly, because what they are telling the locals that stayed behind is completely different.

You are not here, you do not know. Don't preach about intellectual honesty if you don't have the logistical capability to physically see what is happening here.



posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 01:41 PM
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The Nazi Sympathizers of ATS will tell you this isn't happening nobody is starting fire, and it surely isn't a bunch of leftist scumbags.



posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 01:57 PM
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a reply to: aravoth

I'm still upset that they closed the A&W in Estacada.




posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 02:01 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

Antifa & Whiners?



posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 03:29 PM
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originally posted by: xuenchen
Caught on Tape !!!! 😃


Oregon Fisherman Shares Video of Suspected Arsonists in Black Hoodies, Black Pants and with Gas Cans (VIDEO)



From the link:


We are working on the video now since Facebook will NOT allow the video to be shared.
Facebook is controlling the information you can see.


Those of you who are still in the “it’s anyone BUT ANTIFA” camp or the “the FBI said it isn’t so” and you actually buy that should seriously contemplate the other side of that position.

And you also shouldn’t buy the official narrative on anything...



posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 03:32 PM
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originally posted by: aravoth

originally posted by: jtma508

originally posted by: DBCowboy

So now you trust the police and claim that Trump voters are committing arson.

Your post smells of gasoline and desperation.


Reading comprehension challenges? Did I mention Trump voters? Or are you saying that all Trump voters are alt-right extremists? Did I SAY I trusted the police? What i SAID was:

Who benefits from the riots/looting/fires? Those things play into and provide support for Trump's (absolutely ludicrous) 'Law & Order President' ploy. Create chaos and blame the other side. Duh!

As for the police... for the most part they HATE the BLM/antifa crap. They would tie themselves in knots to provide evidence that those groups are behind it. They've said exactly the opposite. Local AND FBI.

So a little critical thinking and intellectual honesty would serve you well.



That is not true. My best friend lives in Estacada. His family had to chase looters off, and one group actually detained a person starting a fire. Out here, the locals all are aware that people dressed like ANTIFA have been spotted in rural areas from Beaver creek to Corbett trying to start fires. The county sheriff's advised people to be on the lookout for people they do not recognize. One guy was caught dumping gas in an open field, another was throwing molotovs out his subaru window near North fork.

I do not believe what the media is saying, and I do not believe what the sheriff's office said publicly, because what they are telling the locals that stayed behind is completely different.

You are not here, you do not know. Don't preach about intellectual honesty if you don't have the logistical capability to physically see what is happening here.


Correct. 100% correct.

One can buy the official narrative but I can say, fact-based, what’s actually happening locally is far different than you’ll find in the MSM - particular OregonLive which is the largest and most socialist/liberal outlet in the state.



posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 03:42 PM
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originally posted by: jtma508

originally posted by: DBCowboy

So now you trust the police and claim that Trump voters are committing arson.

Your post smells of gasoline and desperation.


Reading comprehension challenges? Did I mention Trump voters? Or are you saying that all Trump voters are alt-right extremists? Did I SAY I trusted the police? What i SAID was:

Who benefits from the riots/looting/fires? Those things play into and provide support for Trump's (absolutely ludicrous) 'Law & Order President' ploy. Create chaos and blame the other side. Duh!

As for the police... for the most part they HATE the BLM/antifa crap. They would tie themselves in knots to provide evidence that those groups are behind it. They've said exactly the opposite. Local AND FBI.

So a little critical thinking and intellectual honesty would serve you well.



That’s not a lot of critical thinking right there for harping on someone about critical thinking.

And yeah - the police don’t like most people who only cause problems. Kind of makes sense, ya?

You omit lots of other considerations however for why we’d potentially need to be thoughtful about the “ifs ANTIFA burning things down!” Message. Here’s a few considerations to get your mental juices flowing:

1. Vigilante justice - we don’t need more mobs in the street.
2. Collateral damage - now people who “look like ANTIFA” members could be target for violence
3. Good old boys get mad and get even - the people who are pissed off don’t have any issue F’ing up ANTIFA members. If the safety comes off this will get ugly fast.
4. An announcement like this would help Trump materially - which the FBI isn’t interested in.
5. OR shunned federal assistance and won’t ask for it - if SHTF they don’t have enough resources to handle it.
6. Media needs to cover hard for ANTIFA if they don’t want public opinion to turn against them.

Basically, it needs to be deescalated. Calling out one faction or “naming an enemy” would only make things worse.

Recall what has happened to Chinese Americans, Japanese Americans and Arab Americans over time when we’ve isolated a “group” that poses a “threat”. The ANTIFA crushing would make all of that look super tame.

Best case scenario if you’re a dem is you hope ANTIFA just quietly goes away after this before one of their members gets publicly/undeniably caught setting a fire, gets caught and this whole situation blows up big time.

There’s also a few reasons that the naming of ANTIFA as a culprit in these fires remains under wraps right:
1. This is happening in a fairly rural area with a few “eye witnesses”
2. Most of the people who live in that area aren’t seeking attention - so you don’t get a load of social media reports.
3. The police don’t want to get into more media issues - if they came out and said “ANTIFA is doing this” you’d have a national media S storm trying to cover for ANTIFA - they’re anti-fascist, remember? The good guys? All of thats BS but the media is complicit entirely in this.

There’s more but that’s what I can think of off the top of my head.

ANTIFA sympathizers should be footing the bill for the broken businesses and now destroyed homes, displacement and property damage.

edit on 12-9-2020 by EnigmaChaser because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-9-2020 by EnigmaChaser because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 05:09 PM
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a reply to: EnigmaChaser

It is very hard to find these local stories without the person's name. Search engines are not great at finding them it appears. Here is another one.

nbc16.com...

Sheriff: Springfield man tried to start fire at Dexter frisbee golf course this week




On Thursday, deputies arrested Jonathan Maas, 44, of Springfield on suspicion of arson in the first degree in connection with the Dexter fire.

"While this fire was discovered and extinguished before it grew in size, the potential for the fire to have spread quickly was there," the sheriff's office said. "We are thankful for the community members who spotted and extinguished the fire before it was able to hurt anyone or cause any structure damage."



posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 05:11 PM
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Oregon Fire Marshall resigns:

www.oregonlive.com...

You know it’s questionable if Brown says the person is great - recall all of her love for Teargas Teddy Wheeler?


“Mariana has led with grace, transparency and courage,” Gov. Kate Brown said in a statement. “She embodies the experience Oregon needs to face this crisis, in this moment.”


My guess? He wouldn’t fall in line... but quasi-officially:



The state police did not said why Walker was put on leave. But a source familiar with the situation said Superintendent Travis Hampton had lost confidence and trust in Walker’s ability to manage the historic wildfires.


Lost confidence....

Or, based on what I’ve been told by people who currently are and have been deeply impacted by this and live in the area, it’s possible the “loss of confidence” means he might get off message and break from the stances of Brownstain and Wheeler. I say this as I have family members who are with FDs in Oregon and they are all quite non-urban in their lifestyles - but vote demo to fund their pensions (I don’t love that, but don’t blame them either). In reality, the folks I’ve engaged with largely dislike the libtards in OR government... so if the Fire Marshall decides he had enough and needed to say something - boom - PAL for you.

Or, perhaps more likely, Brown needed a scapegoat because she’s incompetent - and a near-retirement-age white male is the perfect person to punt to seem like a social justice warrior and “doing something” about the fires all in one shot - win, win!



posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 05:13 PM
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I've been hearing rumors that the wingnuts of the right are trying to burn the left coast before elections. Several family members are saying that trucks with flags and Trump election signs were seen in the area around the time the fires started. Also heard lots of gun shots being fired and it's not hunting season.



posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 05:14 PM
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originally posted by: AlaskanDad

I've been hearing rumors that the wingnuts of the right are trying to burn the left coast before elections. Several family members are saying that trucks with flags and Trump election signs were seen in the area around the time the fires started. Also heard lots of gun shots being fired and it's not hunting season.


Where did this take place?



posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 05:18 PM
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originally posted by: AlaskanDad

I've been hearing rumors that the wingnuts of the right are trying to burn the left coast before elections. Several family members are saying that trucks with flags and Trump election signs were seen in the area around the time the fires started. Also heard lots of gun shots being fired and it's not hunting season.


Also... this feels very inconsistent with a large number of corroborated reports.

I can also tell you that truck driving and flag flying brethren in Estacada/Sandy/Boring/Oregon City/etc. have zero interest in burning down their neighborhoods to frame ANTIFA.

I get the angle, but you’re missing a huge piece of the puzzle here - these people work hard and appreciate their stuff. They take care of their properties and family. They protect said possessions at all costs.

No way the good ol’ boys down that way are lighting fires to frame ANTIFA, nor are they holding up people at gunpoint claiming to be ANTIFA.

Edit:

Again, take a simple look at this subject. Forget the media reports.

If you knew a group of people - ANTIFA - had been rioting, destroying personal property/businesses/federal property, diligently trying to eliminate law enforcement and openly stated they want to go cause hell (or burn down) in the suburbs... and people were getting arrested for arson... it doesn’t take a huge mental leap to look at these people as the most likely culprits.

ANTIFA isn’t a scapegoat folks, they’re anarchists.

Notice, is ANTIFA denying involvement? Are they calling for less destruction?

There’s your enemy, folks. If you don’t shut them down, your government will allow it to continue. And your house could be next.
edit on 12-9-2020 by EnigmaChaser because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 05:48 PM
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a reply to: EnigmaChaser

Another one here:

Monterey County deputies arrest arson suspect in 2,500-acre Big Sur fire

www.thecalifornian.com/story/news/2020/08/19/california-deputies-arrest-arson-suspect-dolan-fire-big-sur/5609484002/



A Fresno man was arrested in connection with the 2,500-acre Dolan Fire near Lucia and Big Sur.

Ivan Geronimo Gomez, 30, faces charges of arson on forest land, throwing something at a vehicle intending to cause great bodily injury and illegally growing marijuana, according to the Monterey County Jail's website.



posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 05:57 PM
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a reply to: EnigmaChaser

www.mercurynews.com...



Firefighters responded at 4:57 p.m. to a report of a tree on fire near 1561 South Novato Blvd., the Novato Police Department said. Responding crews came across a second fire in the creek near the Diablo Avenue and Novato Boulevard intersection.

Police officers searching the area saw a suspect igniting a third fire on Front Street, police said.

John Davies, a 55-year-old transient, was booked into Marin County Jail on suspicion of setting three arson fires. He remained in custody in lieu of $100,000 bail.



posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 06:02 PM
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AP is now making this a little hyperbolic:

Title:

Smoke chokes West Coast as wildfire deaths keep climbing


apnews.com...

This isn’t a “mass casualty situation” at this point, despite Governor Brownstain’s commentary. This is, in fact, a mass property casualty situation. I am NOT making light of the lives that have been lost. But 7 deaths? Maybe 50? 500? Those are really small numbers to be defined as “mass casualty” unless you’re Governor Brownstain who wants to shift people to thinking about the bleeding heart liberal sob stories to keep the attention off of who is actually responsible for this.

7 deaths so far...

www.oregonlive.com... lazes-live-updates.html


Seven people have been confirmed dead, dozens more are unaccounted for and hundreds have lost their homes as historic wildfires continue to burn throughout Oregon on Saturday.


ANTIFA is too weak to be murdering bandits - they’re just problem causing troublemakers. And they’re causing a lot of problems (as I sit inside in the PNW as we have the worst air quality in the word right now - literally).



posted on Sep, 12 2020 @ 06:08 PM
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originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: EnigmaChaser

www.mercurynews.com...



Firefighters responded at 4:57 p.m. to a report of a tree on fire near 1561 South Novato Blvd., the Novato Police Department said. Responding crews came across a second fire in the creek near the Diablo Avenue and Novato Boulevard intersection.

Police officers searching the area saw a suspect igniting a third fire on Front Street, police said.

John Davies, a 55-year-old transient, was booked into Marin County Jail on suspicion of setting three arson fires. He remained in custody in lieu of $100,000 bail.


Want to get twisted? Here’s a rabbit hole...

What if ANTIFA offered a bunch of vagrants some money to start fires? That would be a smart move - anyone with half a brain knows you find dumb muscle to carry out tasks and those with influence keep their hands clean. Much like the terrorists in the Middle East, the ones in charge aren’t out there carrying out the frontline work.

Plus, leveraging bums means instant deniability. “It was ANTIFA!” “No it wasn’t, it was this deluded, drug addicted and drunk bum that did it” “oh... well that’s kind of hard to disprove - that seems reasonable” “yeah this guy was high on meth and lit a bunch of stuff up - it’s not ANTIFA”. Case closed.




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