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ANTIFA starting fires in Clackamas County OR

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posted on Sep, 13 2020 @ 08:29 AM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254

And if your choice is to allow someone to set a fire that takes out your home, possibly killing your family (and dog) in the most horrific way possible, or use deadly force to prevent it, what then?




posted on Sep, 13 2020 @ 09:05 AM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254

For most of us it is dangerous to rely on the MSM for information when they make everything up or misframe stories to protect political sensibilities or campaigns.

We have to rely on our neighbors.

That said, I agree that we cannot take action based on unconfirmed reports. But if someone is on my property attempting to set it on fire, they are getting killed. I mean that exactly as it sounds. DRT (Dead Right There) if such a deadly threat is ever presented to myself or family and my home.

I have that right. It is no one's right to destroy with impunity and consequences should be severe for doing so up to and including death.



posted on Sep, 13 2020 @ 09:13 AM
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originally posted by: AlaskanDad

I've been hearing rumors that the wingnuts of the right are trying to burn the left coast before elections. Several family members are saying that trucks with flags and Trump election signs were seen in the area around the time the fires started. Also heard lots of gun shots being fired and it's not hunting season.


Whats it like to be so full of #?

You know you fabricated this.



posted on Sep, 13 2020 @ 09:14 AM
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originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: ketsuko

And if people end up dead with no evidence Antifa is involved in these fires but simply wild rumors?


I guess that means it was 100% the atomwaffles, right?



posted on Sep, 13 2020 @ 09:39 AM
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KPTV (channel 12 out of Portland) is reporting that a Clackamas County deputy is suspended from duty for claiming that Antifa was responsible for some of the fires.



posted on Sep, 13 2020 @ 10:05 AM
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My cousins daughter lost everything but what was on her back or in the car. Sent the links about the arsonist and she had no clue because cnn is all she trust. Still laughing that he so called friends bunt her out everything.




posted on Sep, 13 2020 @ 10:05 AM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
KPTV (channel 12 out of Portland) is reporting that a Clackamas County deputy is suspended from duty for claiming that Antifa was responsible for some of the fires.


Yessir - I linked the YouTube video on another page.

Here’s OregonLive’s version of the events:

www.oregonlive.com... wildfires.html



posted on Sep, 13 2020 @ 10:05 AM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
KPTV (channel 12 out of Portland) is reporting that a Clackamas County deputy is suspended from duty for claiming that Antifa was responsible for some of the fires.


That could mean all kinds of things right now with what we know.

1. Some of these fires are arson - fact.

2. At least one of the arsonists had lots of propaganda in his apartment - fact.

3. There may or may not be a connection in all this.

4. The deputy may or may not be making wild accusations.

5. The suspension could be for making a wild accusation or it could be to avoid inflaming local sentiment and causing vigilantism on a wide scale.
edit on 13-9-2020 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 13 2020 @ 10:08 AM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: EnigmaChaser

We may have to agree to disagree on this, but I honestly believe we are past the point of no return. There will be a war. I see nothing that can stop it now. Let me give you my thoughts in some sort of order, many of which you have already covered:
  • Cities, primarily Democrat-run cities, are being burned and looted night after night.

  • Those doing this burning and looting self-identify as either Antifa, BLM, or both.

  • The local authorities in these cities are regularly refusing to take any action toward the rioters.

  • The local authorities in these cities are regularly demanding that police stand down or resort to ineffective tactics.

  • The rioters are demanding an end to police, and the local authorities in many cases have slashed police budgets during these riots.

  • The Democratic nominee for President has stated that the riots will not stop as long as his incumbent opponent is President.

  • The Democratic nominee for Vice President has stated that the riots should continue until the incumbent President is defeated.

  • Federal authorities have stated that they know many of these rioters are coming from out of state.

  • Federal assistance using the National Guard has been offered and refused by the local authorities in almost all affected cities. In the few places they were used, the violence was quelled overnight.

  • Many local authorities have tried to blame the rioting on the incumbent President.

  • The riots have been increasing in severity and magnitude.

  • Some claiming to be rioters on social media have stated they want to attack the suburbs. It is well-known that people in the suburbs are better armed than those in the cities.

  • We have reports of people dressed in gear similar to those rioting in the cities being caught in the act of setting fires in an exceptionally dry condition.

  • We have regular reports of the local authorities in the cities blaming Global Warming instead of those caught setting fires for the massive number of wildfires.

  • We have unofficial reports that local Sheriffs suspect Antifa operatives are the ones setting the fires. Official reports say the opposite.

  • Wildfires set outside of the suburbs can and frequently do burn through the suburbs.
It is patently obvious that these arsonists and rioters are thugs. It is also pretty obvious that a typical thug does not possess appreciable financial means. Ergo, someone must be paying them to cause chaos or they would not be able to travel to other states and cause this kind of trouble.

In other words, these are political operatives, but they themselves are not political. They only create the chaos and devastation; those paying them and the local authorities both ensure their freedom and create the narrative in their wake. The obvious political incentive is the upcoming election, and the obvious political purpose is to convince the electorate to remove the sitting President. However, this sitting President has denounced the arsonists and taken action where he was invited to do so to quell the uprisings. This is actually giving him more support among the population.

Therefore, attacks are increasing with no end in sight. In less than 60 days now, America will decide on new leadership. Time is short. The attacks have not reached their peak. At some point, the only choice left to people may be fight or die.

Come November 3rd, one of two things will happen: either Donald Trump will retain the Presidency for another term or Joe Biden will become the new President-elect. That is a fact. Should Donald Trump win, the riots will increase dramatically and I believe he will use his powers under 10 USC § 252 (aka the Insurrection Act) to call in the National Guard unilaterally to quell the riots, and could even use the army or marines if that is insufficient. That is martial law.

Should Joe Biden win, the political operation will have been effective and the thugs will be told to go home. Most will likely comply; some will not. Those who do not comply will be quietly arrested, causing the riots to decrease . I believe this decrease will be temporary, though. These thugs are not just interested in being paid; they like what they do. As soon as they realize that the promises of a better life for them are empty promises (and that won't take long), they will begin to riot on their own. A Biden administration will not have the same level of loyalty a Trump administration has held among the troops, and may be unable to stop the new riots. At that point, there will be only two options for the American people: either allow their country to burn, or rise up against the rioters en masse.

There is your war. A real shooting war. Police will be irrelevant; those in uniform who oppose an armed militant will be shot just as surely as anyone else who presented opposition. Most police will simply leave their post and take up arms as a civilian for the cause of the people; the few who try to maintain order as a police officer will die. There are two reasons why I say this war will be orders of magnitude more horrific than the War of Northern Aggression:
  • During the War of Northern Aggression, one typically lived among those who felt similarly. If one lived in Mississippi, one could be pretty well assured that their neighbors were on the same side they were. The same went for someone in Ohio; their neighbors supported the Union. There was only a small stretch of land near the front lines where this was not true.

    In this war, one will not have that luxury. Enough Americans have become so convinced that Antifa is "anti-fascist" that one's neighbors could actually sympathize with the rioters. In the inner cities, this will be much more pronounced. The war will be between city and country, with the suburbs being the front lines. Much of middle America lives in those suburbs.

  • If the local politicians are not voted out of office, and there is little reason to believe this will happen, the narrative will continue to be spun by political operatives. With the media (save Fox News) firmly entrenched toward the Democrat agenda, many people will be confused about who is fighting for their best interests. Not only will this muddy the problem described above, but as government institutions are torn down, new ones will arise that reflect the political philosophies being fed to the victors through the media. Thus, we will have smaller governments popping up and being torn down on a regular basis, with each incarnation seeing the execution of those before it. This will be a repeat not only of the War of Northern Aggression, but also of the French Revolution.
And that is why I will not take sides. I will be on my own side and protecting my own place from anyone who might appear to be a danger to me or mine. I am not naive enough to state that I can hold off whatever comes my way, but I will make the following statement, again, to anyone who decides to take on this old redneck:

Bring body bags... one for me, and a few hundred for you.

TheRedneck


Excellent post, sir.

You may well be right. I don’t know. Maybe I’m hopeful we can avoid mass armed conflict against our countryman.



posted on Sep, 13 2020 @ 10:23 AM
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a reply to: EnigmaChaser

Adding to my above post:

The divide between urban and non-urban dwelling individuals has grown ever more chasmic in the last several years, in my mind. This particularly goes back to the course of the Obama presidency and Hilary’s “deplorable” comments - the left stopped attacking candidates and started attacking the constituency to pit the voters against one another.

It worked.

There’s a lot of problems right now, but one of them brings about a realization I never expected I’d have to contend with - it’s a very real possibility I might have to go to war with my countryman. It’s the last thing I want to do - i value the lives of my fellow humans but what do you do when they don’t value others? I’m not going to sit idly by while they steal my stuff, burn my property or endanger my family. So, I really only have one choice if they come knockin’.

So, if someone like me who isn’t interested in seeing more violence, escalating situations or harming people - but others force my hand - I have to take action to defend myself and others. Not proactive, but certainly defensive.

Lastly, when S does in fact hit the fan, the liberals have sold their voter base a massive bill of goods. Why? They have no idea how “tough” a big swath of the “silent majority” is. Just because we’re not out rioting and in your face doesn’t mean we won’t end these problems quickly if you bring them to our door. No more whining to Teargas Teddy Wheeler or Governor Brownstain. They are incapable of solving anything. So the people will.

Every new beginning comes from some other beginnings end... maybe what we’re seeing is the end of the failed liberal experiment. They got too far over their skis and now their moronic minions are out of control.

I’m digressing. Hopefully we can stop the violence. In the meantime, be prepared to defend yourself, your family and your property. Have a plan. Make sure you have cameras on your property. Have supplies. Be ready.

If 2020 has taught me, personally, any one thing is that nothing sounds crazy any longer and being fully prepared for as many possibilities as possible is a must.

Stay safe out there, folks - hopefully we’re witnessing a rebirth and not a death - only time will tell.



posted on Sep, 13 2020 @ 10:27 AM
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originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: DBCowboy
KPTV (channel 12 out of Portland) is reporting that a Clackamas County deputy is suspended from duty for claiming that Antifa was responsible for some of the fires.


That could mean all kinds of things right now with what we know.

1. Some of these fires are arson - fact.

2. At least one of the arsonists had lots of propaganda in his apartment - fact.

3. There may or may not be a connection in all this.

4. The deputy may or may not be making wild accusations.

5. The suspension could be for making a wild accusation or it could be to avoid inflaming local sentiment and causing vigilantism on a wide scale.


Option 5, please.

The audio makes it pretty clear he isn’t inciting anything. In fact, he acknowledges that these folks are just trying to protect their property and they’re scared. He also acknowledges people are in fact seeing and engaging with “out of town” people and does reference the people in all black and ANTIFA.

His suspension was a political hit job and backed up by OregonLive...

The more you hear the msm say “it’s not ANTIFA” the more you know it is.

Plus, “details” of arrests, shootings and other crimes in the PNW are now quite sparse... makes me think transparency would be a problem that aligns with point 5 in your post.



posted on Sep, 13 2020 @ 12:36 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: DBCowboy
KPTV (channel 12 out of Portland) is reporting that a Clackamas County deputy is suspended from duty for claiming that Antifa was responsible for some of the fires.


That could mean all kinds of things right now with what we know.

1. Some of these fires are arson - fact.

2. At least one of the arsonists had lots of propaganda in his apartment - fact.

3. There may or may not be a connection in all this.

4. The deputy may or may not be making wild accusations.

5. The suspension could be for making a wild accusation or it could be to avoid inflaming local sentiment and causing vigilantism on a wide scale.


They suspended him because he was NOT supposed to release that information.
edit on 13-9-2020 by aravoth because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 13 2020 @ 12:38 PM
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a reply to: aravoth

That's where I'm leaning, but without confirmation, I'll try to walk the middle on this.



posted on Sep, 13 2020 @ 12:47 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: aravoth

That's where I'm leaning, but without confirmation, I'll try to walk the middle on this.


www.google.com...

Corbett is 20-25 minutes away from the Clackamas fires.

I'm telling you. What the locals have seen in front of them, and what they heard from the police in clackamas county is VASTLY different than what the news is reporting.



posted on Sep, 13 2020 @ 12:49 PM
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posted on Sep, 13 2020 @ 01:08 PM
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Just got word a little bit ago that signs are now posted at the entrances to my family members neighborhoods that say “armed private citizens on watch in this neighborhood” and quite literally there are heavily armed community residents walking the streets of a suburban neighborhood to deter the looters or additional fire starting.

That’s where things are really at.



posted on Sep, 13 2020 @ 01:14 PM
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originally posted by: aravoth

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: aravoth

That's where I'm leaning, but without confirmation, I'll try to walk the middle on this.


www.google.com...

Corbett is 20-25 minutes away from the Clackamas fires.

I'm telling you. What the locals have seen in front of them, and what they heard from the police in clackamas county is VASTLY different than what the news is reporting.


This.

The MSM is lying to us all about this.

Who do I trust? The lovely MSM or my extended family member who had to evacuate from a fire and has returned to their neighborhood, armed, and subsequently talked to some home-defending neighbors who are literally on watch after property was defaced/stolen.

I do appreciate the “pics or it didn’t happen” stance, and some general acknowledgement from the media seems important... but it’s really only important so the masses don’t think you’re a whacko for saying ANTIFA is behind this.

But, like many other topics, there’s those of us who have or see the real story, and those who wait for it to be prepared, packaged and spoon fed to them in a state-certified liberal wrapper.



posted on Sep, 13 2020 @ 01:20 PM
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a reply to: EnigmaChaser

I'll put it this way -

On this one, it's very, very important that we get it right. We know a lot of these fires are arson which is suspicious enough in and of itself. We know at least one of the suspects had a lot of propaganda and another filmed himself doing this so that seems clear enough.

But if this were to go out as a mass BLM/ANTIFA attack and it's not ... it could potentially touch off a firestorm (no pun intended) that would be used in political ways that none of us wants.

I think if it walks like duck and all that, but I want to make very sure we get it right.



posted on Sep, 13 2020 @ 01:30 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: EnigmaChaser

I'll put it this way -

On this one, it's very, very important that we get it right. We know a lot of these fires are arson which is suspicious enough in and of itself. We know at least one of the suspects had a lot of propaganda and another filmed himself doing this so that seems clear enough.

But if this were to go out as a mass BLM/ANTIFA attack and it's not ... it could potentially touch off a firestorm (no pun intended) that would be used in political ways that none of us wants.

I think if it walks like duck and all that, but I want to make very sure we get it right.



I do agree with you.

If this isn’t ANTIFA, and it’s someone else/a bunch of looting/thieving transients/drug addicts/delinquents then fine - lets deal with those people. All I know is police are being silenced about ANTIFA, the media is covering for ANTIFA and there’s a lot of concern around ANTIFA being responsible for this and the subsequent impact.

We do have to get this right - my only fear with that is “who” will be the arbiter of accuracy here? The MSM? Unlikely. They’ll never turn on ANTIFA because they would be back tracking hard and admitting fault. They flip this around on “right wing extremists” or “alt-right groups” to basically confuse the hell out of the general population.

This makes me thing that WE, the people, have to get it right as the media and masses won’t.

I’ll stop there for fear of ranting again, but suffice to say there isn’t a clear/easy way out of this regardless of who did it.



posted on Sep, 13 2020 @ 01:34 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

www.facebook.com...

This video from Multnomah County Sheriff Reese was from yesterday.

For those that do not know, Multnomah county borders Clackamas county, which is where the fires are.

My question is, if the Locals in rural areas are not seeing people committing arson, if the locals are not dealing with wide scale looting, then why are they forming ARMED CITIZEN ROADBLOCKS? The Sheriff even addresses it in this video, which is HILARIOUS because this is the same guy that doesn't do a damn thing about ANTIFA/BLM blocking roadways and burning down buildings in Portland, but when Rural Residents Block Roads to PROTECT themselves, he gets pissy.



I will say it again, what the locals are seeing, and dealing with right now, is not being reflected in the media.... AT ALL.
edit on 13-9-2020 by aravoth because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-9-2020 by aravoth because: (no reason given)



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