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A Whirlpool in the Swamp: Major political indictments while the election is in contest?

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posted on Sep, 10 2020 @ 01:37 PM
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This may be a bit long, but bear with me. It concatenates a few months of cogitation, and I think it brings up some salient and interesting ideas.

First, I've never quite taken Donald Trump at face value. I support the office of the president, and I'm damn glad to have him instead of Hillary in office. I voted against Hillary last cycle and will vote Trump again (not so much against Biden as I did against Hillary, but there's a bit of that. I'd vote for Satan himself over Biden.) However, I never was sure that he was all that he and his most vociferous supporters have made him out to be. As I'll explain shortly, I am still not certain that he is altogether altruistic in his actions.

My sense has been that his biggest drive is to simply make his mark on history. He's in his seventies and he had reached the pinnacle of most everything that a worldly man could consider success: he was wealthy, he was influential, he was respected, he was a media presence.

All that was left was to make his mark on the political world and assure that his name would go down in future history books, preferably in bold print, even better with his own chapter, The Trump Era. What better way to accomplish this than to torpedo the whole corrupt political establishment? As an outsider, he was poised to do exactly this: He didn't need their money. He didn't need their accolades. He didn't need their influence. I wonder how long he has been gathering dirt on them.

So, now we are at a socio-political impasse. I have been frustrated (as have many here and elsewhere) at the apparent lack of drain-the-swamp activity over the last four years. We've decried the constant promises of action to be taken with no tangible results. Many have hung on Q's posts like it was some kind of oracle, but they have been mostly dry. (Disclaimer: I'm not a Q follower.) Nothing substantial has happened ... as of yet. And it's been frustrating. There is talk now, however, that while the normal average number of federal sealed indictments in the court system at any time in recent history has been about 2,500, there are currently over 130,000 of them (as opposed to around 15,000 unsealed). (Those numbers are purportedly from the end of last year. Source on that is not real solid, but let's run with it for the sake of the argument.)

So, here's a possible scenario - and it would explain why the left has so obviously adopted a scorched-earth policy.

The social and political fallout from opening all of these indictments and prosecuting the rampant corruption (that we all know is out there) would be enormous. We're talking the entire political system potentially being crippled, massive sections of society becoming enraged as they see their supposed political heroes being accused, tried and hopefully convicted - some citizens opening their eyes and turning on the criminals, others blindly supporting them in their corruption. Having done this during a first term would have created such havoc that it would have made a second term perhaps untenable. In short, "draining the swamp" would create such an immense whirlpool that much of the swamp would get sucked down with it and leave the swamp nearly unrecognizable, essentially requiring a major re-landscaping job and altering our form of government to some degree at least while it recuperated. If this had happened during Trump's first term, he would not have had time to finish the job. Indeed, perhaps much of the last three-and-a-half years has, perhaps, been spent in building cases solid enough to bring to the courts. Perhaps this is why there has been such a turnover in the administration; even those who are not ideologically opposed are afraid of the repercussions.

So, what to do?

Is it possible that:

Donald Trump has held the plug in place over the last four years as they have built their case? Waiting patiently for a second term, perhaps they are ready to unseal indictments, bring the evidence before the courts and the public, and fight the good fight. William Barr has hinted as such.

This would explain why the corrupt political establishment is so willing to destroy everything to prevent a second Trump term. If he takes the Oval Office again, they all go down in flames. If they destroy the country and our form of government to prevent it, for them the end result is not much different, but they get to remain kings of the dung heap that they have created. (Remember that Hillary reportedly said, herself, that if Trump was elected they'd all hang?)

And, if this is the case and Americans are stupid enough to capitulate to the left and hand them the election, then we deserve what we get; a corrupt, incompetent totalitarian rule that will plunge us to depths below anything the "third wold" could even imagine, making Venezuela look like a paradise. If I am correct in my thoughts (just thoughts now, not assertions), the the last four years goes down the toilet.

So, what we expect to happen is this: Donald Trump will easily win the election because the demented left has alienated so much of the population, but then a wave of blue ballots will magically appear by mail and - as Hillary has advised their dementia addled candidate - they will not concede, but will contest the election. The promised riots, violence, death and destruction are a diversion.

Could the judicial branch begin to unseal the indictments immediately after the election and start to bring down key players in the corrupt political establishment? This would include the democrats as well as the many republicans who have turned on their own party out of self interest. This would, ostensibly, include at least one former occupant of the Oval Office with his number 2 partner in crime.

I honestly think that such a thing could initially have repercussions in the socio-political realm more devastating than what the progressive democrats have planned, though in the long run - like the initial pain and trauma of cutting out a cancer - will be better for the country and our government.

Attributed to Benjamin Franklin:



(We have given you) A republic, madam, if you can keep it.

:
edit on 2020 9 10 by incoserv because: I made some edits to improve clarity and style.




posted on Sep, 10 2020 @ 01:54 PM
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a reply to: incoserv

It's a possible scenario but I doubt it.



posted on Sep, 10 2020 @ 01:59 PM
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originally posted by: lostbook
a reply to: incoserv

It's a possible scenario but I doubt it.


Come on, that's not adding much to the dialog!

Why do you doubt it?

>Too good to be true?
>Don't trust the President?
>Think the establishment is too deep and too powerful?
>Think Americans are too stupid, lazy and gullible to let it happen?

I mean, for cryin' out loud, give us some actual thoughts here, even if it gives you a headache!



posted on Sep, 10 2020 @ 02:15 PM
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Thats pretty much how I thought of Trump the moment he announced he was running. He wanted to go down as the best president eVaR.. even better if it could be described as "heroic." Given the type of people & organizations he is up against in such an endeavor, "heroic" woupd even be apt. His narcissism actually works in our favor in this respect: suborning someone with Trumps character is extraordinarily difficult.

Its a convoluted, complicated task though. A subverted media, and subverted digital "public squares," make it mind-bogglingly tricky just on their own. When its propped up by people in government, education, corporations, and the legal system.. Its something that has to be handled very, very skillfully. Both with delicacy as well as unwavering focus & dedication.

I believe that Trump is the only one that provides a possibility of having someone in his position that is against the technocracy, but in many ways I think it only buys time.

I dont believe that simply voting for Trump will solve everything though. The framework & infrastructure that has been established by this hostile "nation" will not simply disappear, and I see very, very little talk about building alternatives to this dependence inducing apparatus. After years and years of consideration, I believe this is the single most critical factor in combating The Monolith.



posted on Sep, 10 2020 @ 02:16 PM
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a reply to: incoserv

I’d say, nope.

Everything you wrote rests on a delusion. This idea that Donald Trump is fighting a war against evil liberals that are trying to destroy the country. It’s fiction. It’s fictional conservative paranoia. And it’s been promoted as reality to all of you who have a need to believe it.

You’re being used. And I doubt most of you care as long as you think it makes the left look bad.



posted on Sep, 10 2020 @ 02:18 PM
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a reply to: incoserv

I have nothing against President Trump but I honestly don't think he has the power or the ability to do anything. He probably signed all kinds of documents upon becoming President that protect the powers that be from this very thing.



posted on Sep, 10 2020 @ 02:22 PM
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originally posted by: underwerks
a reply to: incoserv

I’d say, nope.

Everything you wrote rests on a delusion. This idea that Donald Trump is fighting a war against evil liberals that are trying to destroy the country. It’s fiction. It’s fictional conservative paranoia. And it’s been promoted as reality to all of you who have a need to believe it.

You’re being used. And I doubt most of you care as long as you think it makes the left look bad.



Uh, have you read the news lately with a critical, independent mind? It's not the right that is destroying things, it's the left. Riots, looting, businesses and lives being destroyed, cities being decimated, law enforcement being hamstrung and castrated.

This kind of gas-lighting is exactly the signature of the progressive playbook.

And, if you'll re-read my OP (assuming you even read it all to begin with), I never said that Donald Trump was "fighting a war against evil liberals." I said that he may be doing what he is doing to secure his place in the history books. And I did mention that there are may corrupt republicans as well as democrats in the mud.

This is not about "liberals and conservatives." True liberals and true conservatives value one another's input and work together for the good of all. These are corrupt elitists we're talking about. They have hijacked both parties, but the democrat side of this two-faced coins is the one that they have managed to use most effectively for their ends. The illusion of opposition and choice is critical to the success of the show.

If anybody has bought into the false dichotomy, it's people who react like you have here.
:
edit on 2020 9 10 by incoserv because: I could.



posted on Sep, 10 2020 @ 02:23 PM
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As a halfassed futurist, I see a different senario...in fact...


I hope there is a violent revolution/racewar in America. I don't care who starts it or the resulting anarchy that will follow.
The economy will collapse and it will look like Argentina of the 70s with right wing death squads torturing and murdering their opponents or even innocents. I'm beyond caring as this Republic marches into a white nationalistic fascism.

There will be no swamp draining or end to corruption.

Blessed to have options to be able to live anywhere else I choose provided I can get out in time.


edit on 10-9-2020 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 10 2020 @ 02:23 PM
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originally posted by: Serdgiam
Thats pretty much how I thought of Trump the moment he announced he was running. He wanted to go down as the best president eVaR.. even better if it could be described as "heroic." Given the type of people & organizations he is up against in such an endeavor, "heroic" woupd even be apt. His narcissism actually works in our favor in this respect: suborning someone with Trumps character is extraordinarily difficult.

Its a convoluted, complicated task though. A subverted media, and subverted digital "public squares," make it mind-bogglingly tricky just on their own. When its propped up by people in government, education, corporations, and the legal system.. Its something that has to be handled very, very skillfully. Both with delicacy as well as unwavering focus & dedication.

I believe that Trump is the only one that provides a possibility of having someone in his position that is against the technocracy, but in many ways I think it only buys time.

I dont believe that simply voting for Trump will solve everything though. The framework & infrastructure that has been established by this hostile "nation" will not simply disappear, and I see very, very little talk about building alternatives to this dependence inducing apparatus. After years and years of consideration, I believe this is the single most critical factor in combating The Monolith.


Sadly, I agree with much of what you say. I don't think that it is without hope, but those who know what is right would need to be willing to dig in for the long haul and fight for what is right. I am not convinced that humanity, in general, has that kind of will.



posted on Sep, 10 2020 @ 02:25 PM
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What happens if some of these sealed indictments come out a couple of weeks before the election? The public don't always have the best memory with some of this stuff. Some talk about an October surprise.

If some naughty details do emerge about someone running for office should that be suppressed? Politics is a public game, is it in the public interest to just know who they are voting for?



posted on Sep, 10 2020 @ 02:28 PM
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originally posted by: olaru12
As a halfassed futurist, I see a different senario...in fact...


I hope there is a violent revolution/racewar in America. I don't care who starts it or the resulting anarchy that will follow.
The economy will collapse and it will look like Argentina of the 70s with right wing death squads torturing and murdering their opponents or even innocents. I'm beyond caring as this Republic marches into a white nationalistic fascism.



Yeah, like all of those white nationalist fascists who are burning, looting, rioting and killing in Portland, Seattle, New York, etc? I saw all of those white people doing that in the news.

More toll misdirection and distraction. Folks, please do not let this kind of crap derail any discussion here. Seriously, don't feed the trolls. Ignore people who have nothing productive or useful to add to the discussion. People who come into a discussion like this (or like I hope it'll be) and just throw around incendiary language and unsupported accusations are looking to incite confusion and contention. I'm happy for you to disagree with my premise as it's just a premise, an idea; but just attacking people and saying inflammatory crap with no rational foundation, it brings down the whole atmosphere. Don't encourage it!

:
edit on 2020 9 10 by incoserv because: I could.



posted on Sep, 10 2020 @ 02:38 PM
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a reply to: incoserv

I find your long post, thought provoking. It is well written and for the most part does not demonstrate to me a paranoid mindset. However, I must also say that from my observations the whole position you put forth is predicated on one single lynchpin, Donald Trump. That the is the center of a movement, the leader to lead out of the future that so many do not want to see. That I get.

For me at least, your whole scenario rings with enough truthfulness for us all to be concerned. For me specifically and I am sure for others as well, again it is spearheaded by Trump. How we see him as an individual is paramount. While many see him as a political genius, I see him as a blithering idiot which to me at least invalidates most of what the right has to put forth if he is the best they can come up with.

As for Biden being the best the left can come up with,,,,,,,What a folly that is as well.



posted on Sep, 10 2020 @ 02:38 PM
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originally posted by: kwakakev
What happens if some of these sealed indictments come out a couple of weeks before the election? The public don't always have the best memory with some of this stuff. Some talk about an October surprise.

If some naughty details do emerge about someone running for office should that be suppressed? Politics is a public game, is it in the public interest to just know who they are voting for?


Barr has said that he had some stuff ready and would not wait until after the elections to release what Durham has dug up. We'll see if that happens.

Could be interesting.



posted on Sep, 10 2020 @ 02:44 PM
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originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: incoserv

I find your long post, thought provoking. It is well written and for the most part does not demonstrate to me a paranoid mindset. However, I must also say that from my observations the whole position you put forth is predicated on one single lynchpin, Donald Trump. That the is the center of a movement, the leader to lead out of the future that so many do not want to see. That I get.

For me at least, your whole scenario rings with enough truthfulness for us all to be concerned. For me specifically and I am sure for others as well, again it is spearheaded by Trump. How we see him as an individual is paramount. While many see him as a political genius, I see him as a blithering idiot which to me at least invalidates most of what the right has to put forth if he is the best they can come up with.

As for Biden being the best the left can come up with,,,,,,,What a folly that is as well.



I see Donald Trump as an man with much more media and celebrity experience than pretty much any politician. He knows how to play to the crowd, and the common man is his best and most trustworthy supporter. He's speaks like he does because it's language that the blue-collar worker can connect with. That's not to say that blue-collar worker are ignorant or uneducated, but they speak in common language, not political bovine feces. He gets laughed at by the hoity-toity political establishment and by those folks who like to think of themselves in in the know, educated, on the cutting edge.

I think that he has been playing to the crowd, and it seems to be working for him, by and large. You don't get to the level of success that he has reached if you are an idiot. There are too many out there who want a piece of you, who fear your power or envy your success, or are just greedy for some of what you have. One would have to be intelligent, astute and able to build a team around one's self to carry that success off.

Can you actually point of exact instances that convince you that the President is "a blithering idiot"? Seriously, give me some examples. Better yet, why don't you start a thread here where you can give us a list of instances that have convinced you of such and see if we can analyze them. Perhaps you will convince many of us, or perhaps we'll be able to reason away your doubts...

I do believe that he is something of a megalomaniac, but then I believe that almost all politicians are that.

And, if Donald Trump is a "a blithering idiot", tell me what in the world does that make Joe Biden?

:
edit on 2020 9 10 by incoserv because: I could.



posted on Sep, 10 2020 @ 02:53 PM
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originally posted by: olaru12

Blessed to have options to be able to live anywhere else I choose provided I can get out in time.



Where are you going to go?
There are maybe 20 "countries" mostly caribbean islands that currently allow US passport holders entry.
Unless you're in the 8-figure or greater category financially, or like the idea of island living, there's not too many opportunities. Doubtful those options will be expanding any time soon.
Hopefully, you'll survive the civil war you seem to want. I'm not planning on it.

ganjoa
ganjoa



posted on Sep, 10 2020 @ 02:56 PM
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originally posted by: incoserv
This may be a bit long, but bear with me. It concatenates a few months of cogitation, and I think it brings up some salient and interesting ideas.

First, I've never quite taken Donald Trump at face value. I support the office of the president, and I'm damn glad to have him instead of Hillary in office. I voted against Hillary last cycle and will vote Trump again (not so much against Biden as I did against Hillary, but there's a bit of that. I'd vote for Satan himself over Biden.) However, I never was sure that he was all that he and his most vociferous supporters have made him out to be. As I'll explain shortly, I am still not certain that he is altogether altruistic in his actions.

My sense has been that his biggest drive is to simply make his mark on history. He's in his seventies and he had reached the pinnacle of most everything that a worldly man could consider success: he was wealthy, he was influential, he was respected, he was a media presence.

All that was left was to make his mark on the political world and assure that his name would go down in future history books, preferably in bold print, even better with his own chapter, The Trump Era. What better way to accomplish this than to torpedo the whole corrupt political establishment? As an outsider, he was poised to do exactly this: He didn't need their money. He didn't need their accolades. He didn't need their influence. I wonder how long he has been gathering dirt on them.


Has it not occurred to you that every politician vying for high political office, and especially the very bad guys (like Stalin and Mao and Hitler), wants to make their mark on history?


So, now we are at a socio-political impasse. I have been frustrated (as have many here and elsewhere) at the apparent lack of drain-the-swamp activity over the last four years. We've decried the constant promises of action to be taken with no tangible results. Many have hung on Q's posts like it was some kind of oracle, but they have been mostly dry. (Disclaimer: I'm not a Q follower.) Nothing substantial has happened ... as of yet. And it's been frustrating. There is talk now, however, that while the normal average number of federal sealed indictments in the court system at any time in recent history has been about 2,500, there are currently over 130,000 of them (as opposed to around 15,000 unsealed). (Those numbers are purportedly from the end of last year. Source on that is not real solid, but let's run with it for the sake of the argument.)


Perhaps "the swamp" was a propaganda thing and corruption was low in previous administrations? Definitely the inability to charge someone with these alleged crimes after years of accusation and investigation might cause you to wonder?


So, here's a possible scenario - and it would explain why the left has so obviously adopted a scorched-earth policy.


What 'scorched earth' policy?


The social and political fallout from opening all of these indictments and prosecuting the rampant corruption (that we all know is out there) would be enormous. We're talking the entire political system potentially being crippled, massive sections of society becoming enraged as they see their supposed political heroes being accused, tried and hopefully convicted - some citizens opening their eyes and turning on the criminals, others blindly supporting them in their corruption. Having done this during a first term would have created such havoc that it would have made a second term perhaps untenable.


What about the current economic collapse, trade wars, epidemic, and riots? Are they not social havoc? Am I missing something here?


In short, "draining the swamp" would create such an immense whirlpool that much of the swamp would get sucked down with it and leave the swamp nearly unrecognizable, essentially requiring a major re-landscaping job and altering our form of government to some degree at least while it recuperated. If this had happened during Trump's first term, he would not have had time to finish the job. Indeed, perhaps much of the last three-and-a-half years has, perhaps, been spent in building cases solid enough to bring to the courts. Perhaps this is why there has been such a turnover in the administration; even those who are not ideologically opposed are afraid of the repercussions.


America has already survived civil war and revolution. Your imagined havoc is "a storm in a teacup" in comparison with actual history.


So, what to do?

Is it possible that:

Donald Trump has held the plug in place over the last four years as they have built their case? Waiting patiently for a second term, perhaps they are ready to unseal indictments, bring the evidence before the courts and the public, and fight the good fight. William Barr has hinted as such.


Or, it was all BS.


This would explain why the corrupt political establishment is so willing to destroy everything to prevent a second Trump term. If he takes the Oval Office again, they all go down in flames. If they destroy the country and our form of government to prevent it, for them the end result is not much different, but they get to remain kings of the dung heap that they have created. (Remember that Hillary reportedly said, herself, that if Trump was elected they'd all hang?)


And Trump "reportedly" is a traitorous, paedophile, murderer, tax cheat, and crime boss. You see, anyone can sling accusations around "reportedly". It doesn't make them true (or false).


And, if this is the case and Americans are stupid enough to capitulate to the left and hand them the election, then we deserve what we get; a corrupt, incompetent totalitarian rule that will plunge us to depths below anything the "third wold" could even imagine, making Venezuela look like a paradise. If I am correct in my thoughts (just thoughts now, not assertions), the the last four years goes down the toilet.


Look at the US now, after four years of Trump's administration, in the light of what you just wrote.


So, what we expect to happen is this: Donald Trump will easily win the election because the demented left has alienated so much of the population, but then a wave of blue ballots will magically appear by mail and - as Hillary has advised their dementia addled candidate - they will not concede, but will contest the election. The promised riots, violence, death and destruction are a diversion.

Could the judicial branch begin to unseal the indictments immediately after the election and start to bring down key players in the corrupt political establishment? This would include the democrats as well as the many republicans who have turned on their own party out of self interest. This would, ostensibly, include at least one former occupant of the Oval Office with his number 2 partner in crime.

I honestly think that such a thing could initially have repercussions in the socio-political realm more devastating than what the progressive democrats have planned, though in the long run - like the initial pain and trauma of cutting out a cancer - will be better for the country and our government.

...


Or Trump could be voted out and normalcy re-established?



posted on Sep, 10 2020 @ 02:59 PM
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originally posted by: ganjoa

originally posted by: olaru12

Blessed to have options to be able to live anywhere else I choose provided I can get out in time.



Where are you going to go?
There are maybe 20 "countries" mostly caribbean islands that currently allow US passport holders entry.
Unless you're in the 8-figure or greater category financially, or like the idea of island living, there's not too many opportunities. Doubtful those options will be expanding any time soon.
Hopefully, you'll survive the civil war you seem to want. I'm not planning on it.

ganjoa
ganjoa


True. I currently live outside of the US though I am a US citizen, have family there still, and do care about what happens. I will be voting by absentee ballot (much different from the "mail-in" scam that's being promoted) in this election as I have in many previous ones.

I will be watching the aftermath of the elections from afar. I hope that it does not degenerate into what the progressive left wants it to.

And, I'm not real sure that, once the feces hits the ventilator, any other place will be much better.
:
edit on 2020 9 10 by incoserv because: I could.



posted on Sep, 10 2020 @ 03:11 PM
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a reply to: chr0naut

"Normalcy" pertaining to politics, is a bad word in America. President Trump was elected to take us away from the status quo.



posted on Sep, 10 2020 @ 03:18 PM
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originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: chr0naut

"Normalcy" pertaining to politics, is a bad word in America. President Trump was elected to take us away from the status quo.



Pretty much. What that means in the long run and how it plays out, we'll have to see, but he definitely was elected because people were tired o the status quo.

I voted straight republican ticket until after 9/11, when it came clear to me that W. was screwing us over. I campaigned for Ron Paul in his last run. The left has pushed me back to voting Red Ticket, but not because I am a republican. I didn't vote when Romney ran against Obama because I didn't even think that there was a less of two evils between those choices. I think Romney would have actually been a worse choice than Obama, but couldn't be bothered to cast a vote for Hussein, either.
:
edit on 2020 9 10 by incoserv because: I could.



posted on Sep, 10 2020 @ 05:06 PM
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a reply to: incoserv

Nope, Trump is absolutely not altruistic. However draining of the swamp may just entail him going after specific folks who he see's as having wronged him in some way. Trumps been glad-handing many over the years and run across pretty much everyone at some point or another.

Despite Trump being our current Prez, it's safe to remember he's always looked out for #1 first.




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