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NY Times reports a possiblility of CA, WA, OR seceeding from the union if Trump wins

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posted on Sep, 9 2020 @ 03:46 PM
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So the year I’m building a new house covid hits and WA secedes from the United States?

I refuse to believe my luck is that bad




posted on Sep, 9 2020 @ 03:47 PM
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there has been talk of splitting these states so the conservatives would have some voice in government instead of being constantly steamrolled by the left.
the dems got ahold and suggested a gerrymandered split that would give them the majority in three or four states.

the national dems will never let this happen. this could cost them six senate seats and a bunch of house seats.

imagine the antifa / blm types storming the state capitals if Trump wins. I can definitely see the legislatures voting to secede, whether from fear or leftist zealoutry.

let the USA keep San Diego so we have a Pacific port and let the rest secede, especially the coastal cities. I think it would be a win win.
(they can take Ginsburg and Kagan for their new Supreme Court)



posted on Sep, 9 2020 @ 03:47 PM
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originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
Can't pump your own gas in Jersey?


Don't want to, let some other schlub do it.

What irks me is that I can buy gasoline from a schlub pumping it for me in NJ at the same price or LESS than I pay when I pump it myself in PA.
We pay a lot of gas tax here.


Interesting.

On one hand everyone should get a job to be legit.

On the other we look down on them calling them schlub or schmuck...

I wonder why no one wants those crap jobs? Maybe because getting dumped on by the same asshole that called you names for not having the job talks even more # when they finally did get a job?

No wonder ppl would rather be homeless and starve than do anything for their ungrateful crap talking masters...

Just an observation.
edit on 9/9/2020 by muzzleflash because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 9 2020 @ 03:50 PM
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Me personally the cups always overflowing.

I love all this.
I think everyone on all sides needs a Wake up call.

All of this suffering is Good for each of you.
All my suffering was Good for me right?
So it is for you too.

You made this bed now lay the # down.

I'm so Happy for everyone.



posted on Sep, 9 2020 @ 03:52 PM
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originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: putnam6


Give me a break it's one person on a message board......


It's been at least two.....and judging by the tone and content of many other posts I suspect many others were/are salivating at the mouth over the thought!



......and you throwing that blanket over all Americans LOL.


I've been here one or two years now and have had many a conversation/discussion with American's on a wide ranging number of topics and events both on here and in 'real' life.
Do you honestly think I've formed whatever opinions I have of America and its people on one post?



You got a broad brush not to mention seems most here are saying fine let them go, but that that doesn't fit your brainwashing does it.


Ha ha ha.....are you seriously trying to lecture me about brainwashing?



"It's been at least two.....and judging by the tone and content of many other posts I suspect many others were/are salivating at the mouth over the thought!"


Oh damn stop the presses it was two of them and you by "judging them" know this is the pulse of America LOL

"I've been here one or two years now and have had many a conversation/discussion with American's on a wide ranging number of topics and events both on here and in 'real' life.
Do you honestly think I've formed whatever opinions I have of America and its people on one post?"

No but you admit that you do from being on a message board for 1 or 2 years so now you know LOL it's a small sampling a infinitely small sampling and a decidedly right leaning biased one at that. But now Freeborn knows all and sees all...

"Ha ha ha.....are you seriously trying to lecture me about brainwashing?"

Have you ever seen anybody admit they have been brainwashed? rarely happens if ever. Your ego gets in the way, and there is a huge variety of brainwashing going on out there. LOL alot of the people that act like they aren't brainwashed are the most brainwashed of all.

Not lecturing you at all but your opinion sounds like you have have caught main stream mediaititis for sure LOL. Definitely so if you mainline the BBC or Skynews through your veins as it seems you do. Though I could be wrong lol.

The fact that you have formed an opinion on Americans based on you limited knowledge? Been here all my life traveled over a lot of the country have done business in a lot of states for over 40 years but that still doesn't mean I understand the the true feelings of all of America.

Good lord try the Straight Dope message boards and you will get the exact opposite "knowledge of how Americans feel?

We don't know how most of America feels most of the time. LOL and we are rarely unified, only time in my lifetime was maybe right after 9/11 right or wrong we were unified. Thats the greatness of America is we don't have to think and believe the same things. But we all should be at least back the freedom to think them without persecution, right.



posted on Sep, 9 2020 @ 03:54 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: ganjoa

The point of the exercise wouldn't be to actually set up those states as their own country or even necessarily provoke Civil War although that would be the fire they'd be playing with. The point would be to try to force their own will on the rest of the nation in defiance of the actual election results.

The idea would be to create so much chaos and disorder that Biden would be declared winner just to end it and keep national unity.



what would be hilarious is IF the reps get house and senate and then APPROVE their leaving lmao.



posted on Sep, 9 2020 @ 04:06 PM
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a reply to: ElGoobero

And yet if we let population votes actually count as opposed to empty land having more of a vote in a national election than actual Americans we'd never see another Repub president. Guess it all comes down to your definition of 'gerrymandering'.



posted on Sep, 9 2020 @ 04:09 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
wont happen,they will need money due to the fires


They'll need water too, and all of that comes from states farther east.


California's water comes from California. Less hype. More facts.

Where does my water come from?



posted on Sep, 9 2020 @ 04:12 PM
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a reply to: okrian

Since we have never been a true democracy whats your point..

But Ill address it anyways, why should 4 cities get to decide the outcome of the election?

How are those "empty states" as you put it get representation in the govt?

As it stands right now the democrats have to run a terrible election to not win the oval office, 1 state gets them a good chunk towards the oval office to counter that a republican needs to win like 4-5 states.

If you favbor democrats demand a better campaign, republicans CANNOT ignore a state or they lose, democrats can come close to winning only strong blue states and nothing else.

the EC is the only way currently to guarentee every state has a say.

ETA: on topic we already had that discussion and their ability to leave was beaten on the field of battle as well as by the supreme court post civil war, shame people are so bloody ignorant of history.
edit on 9-9-2020 by Irishhaf because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 9 2020 @ 05:00 PM
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a reply to: putnam6

FFS, give up with the faux outrage and being such a drama queen.

One or two years on ATS is actually thirteen and I've met a fair few American's in 'real' life.

We all have opinions and impressions of people(s), surely even you'll recognise that.

Now when did I say I know what the 'pulse of America' is, please quote me.
But judging by the replies of some of the members in this thread - and please bear in mind that I have had interactions with quite a few of them on quite a few occassions over the years - it gave me the impression that quite a few were reasonably supportive of the sentiments expressed.

How on earth does that equate to me thinking I know what the 'pulse' of America is?
From where did you pluck that from?

I've never professed to know all about anything, ever.
And do you know why, because I know very little about most things....but I like sharing what little I do know and what opinions I have for what little they are worth.
That's why I've been on ATS for so long.....I like talking cod# to strangers.
Do it for long enough some of those strangers aren't strangers any more, just strange.....just look at AM!

Really don't know why you've got the arse over this....I'm not the one advocating nuking Beijing or bombing American people.



posted on Sep, 9 2020 @ 05:11 PM
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a reply to: okrian

And if communities upstream from Cali on the Colorado decide they don't want to share with the new communist nation?



posted on Sep, 9 2020 @ 05:12 PM
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originally posted by: LSU2018

originally posted by: xuenchen
Democrats started one civil war, so now they threaten another civil war !!!

Maybe Canada annexes 3 now Provinces ? 🤣


If they left, there wouldn't be a war because the rest of the country outside of NY and DC would pay to get them out of here.


I would be happy if they left, I'd be one of those who beg Trump to let them go.

They wouldn't last a minute in a war with the US, can you imagine the latte liberals putting on a uniform and fighting. All they know how to do is destroy their own neighborhoods and cities. That might be their plan, destroy their own cities to win the war. Sounds very much like a liberal idea to me.



posted on Sep, 9 2020 @ 05:15 PM
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originally posted by: yuppa

what would be hilarious is IF the reps get house and senate and then APPROVE their leaving lmao.


hahaha...

"Wait no... take us back we were just bluffing..."



posted on Sep, 9 2020 @ 05:19 PM
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Just imagine; there would be no more Nancy Pelosi, Diane Feinstein, Kamala Harris, Maxine Waters....
That would be awesome!



posted on Sep, 9 2020 @ 05:21 PM
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a reply to: Onlyyouknow

... Adam Schiff ...



posted on Sep, 9 2020 @ 05:22 PM
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originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: ganjoa

The point of the exercise wouldn't be to actually set up those states as their own country or even necessarily provoke Civil War although that would be the fire they'd be playing with. The point would be to try to force their own will on the rest of the nation in defiance of the actual election results.

The idea would be to create so much chaos and disorder that Biden would be declared winner just to end it and keep national unity.



what would be hilarious is IF the reps get house and senate and then APPROVE their leaving lmao.


Best scenario ever! Let them go peacefully. They hate the rest of the nation anyway and are positive they are better than the rest of us. So let them prove it and go their own way, turn over all the military gear to the US, send the soldiers back to the US. Tell them to create their own currency. Let them go. It would be the best thing to happen to the US in a long time.



posted on Sep, 9 2020 @ 05:25 PM
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originally posted by: The2Billies


Best scenario ever! Let them go peacefully. They hate the rest of the nation anyway and are positive they are better than the rest of us. So let them prove it and go their own way, turn over all the military gear to the US, send the soldiers back to the US. Tell them to create their own currency. Let them go. It would be the best thing to happen to the US in a long time.


You say that now... but in less than a decade they'd be an annex of China



posted on Sep, 9 2020 @ 05:28 PM
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originally posted by: okrian

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
wont happen,they will need money due to the fires


They'll need water too, and all of that comes from states farther east.


California's water comes from California. Less hype. More facts.

Where does my water come from?


From your link-


The 1,440-mile-long Colorado River passes through parts of seven states, several Indian reservations and the Republic of Mexico. California is entitled to 4.4 million acre-feet of water annually from river. Most of that water irrigates crops in the Palo Verde, Imperial and Coachella valleys, located in the southeastern corner of the state, but the Colorado also is a vital source of water for urban southern California. Urban supplies are distributed by the Metropolitan Water District of Southern California through its Colorado River Aqueduct. MWD is a water wholesale agency that supplies water to water districts that serve 18 million customers in Los Angeles, Orange, San Diego, Riverside, San Bernardino and Ventura counties.


Then there's this-




The Colorado River supplies about 14 percent of the water used in California by agriculture, industry, commercial businesses, and residential customers. As shown in Figure 1, Colorado River water is by far the most important source of water used in Southern California--accounting for over 60 percent of its water supply.


Colorado River Water: Challenges for California



posted on Sep, 9 2020 @ 05:38 PM
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originally posted by: muzzleflash

originally posted by: cooperton
cares?

In all seriousness though I've pondered about what de-federalizing the USA would do. More control for the people on the state level without an out-of-control federal government trying to appease everyone. It would bring a more authentic democracy in my opinion. Although divided we may be weaker to all sorts of foreign influences.


I'm a Federalist when it comes to this debate.
And my side won the Civil War.

States having more power results in WAR on our home soil. They must be put in check.

We absolutely need a strong central power to keep the 50 states in line.

The US Constitution says clearly that it and Fed law is the law of the land and any state contravening it cannot withstand it.

Supremacy Clause.

If you think States need more power than you're against the current Constitution and are reenacting the plight of the Confederates.

I'm more anti Gov than anyone on this whole website but we need to be reasonable here and look at the context of history and the purpose of the Constitutional documents.

Most power is intended to be in we the ppl.
2nd power is Fed
3rd State
4th local

When the state's get too much power they revolt against the Fed. It's repeated over and over.

The FBI needs to be arresting any politician suggesting rebellion and nip this before it turns into rivers of blood.


I could not possibly disagree with you more.

Central planning at the federal level is absolutely the biggest problem facing our country, a movement to decentralize government would solve SOOOO many of our issues.

Thing is, this country is too big. And it's growing older and developing regional cultures that cannot be expected to all be ruled the same. You cannot run NYC the same way as rural Oklahoma, and the culture of Mississippi is totally different than the culture of the Pacific NW. This is why we are having so many problems now, is that we have a government, one that was NEVER designed to function like this, that is attempting to rule a 3000 mile wide country from one city, and with one set of rules for everyone. That's insane, and was never the plan.

Looked at another way, the distance from Portland Maine to San Diego is roughly the same distance from London to Baghdad. Think of all the different groups of people between those two points, the variety of cultures and governments...no one would ever expect England, Germany, Italy, Turkey, and Iraq to all live the same way and want the same government. Yet we expect that here? Crazy.

Also, your contention that the US was always meant to be centrally managed at the federal level is completely incorrect. The original framers envisioned the US as basically a continent wide free-trade zone made up of a union of many different independent states...another word for country. Open borders and a shared monetary system being pretty much the only shared policies at the federal level, everything else was managed by the states. If the founding fathers made a mistake, it was by calling it the United STATES of America instead of the United COUNTRIES of America, because that's what it was supposed to be. That's why we don't have a name - USA is a title, not a name of a country. Ohio, Maine, Florida, Utah, these are names of countries/states, not the USA. That's not a country name it's a designation.

Now when did this all change? Easy, Lincoln screwed it all up. He's quite possibly the worst president in history because of what he did to start the ball rolling for central planning in this country. For the 80 years before him, secession was not a controversial idea at all, it was a given that any state could leave if they weren't happy. But Lincoln, being a longtime Whig, was very much for centralization of power in the hands of a few at the federal level, and sharing that power with the titans of industry. And that's what we've had for the last 150 years, is central planning and ever increasing federal control, all underwritten by the corporate oligarchs.



posted on Sep, 9 2020 @ 05:42 PM
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originally posted by: okrian

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
wont happen,they will need money due to the fires


They'll need water too, and all of that comes from states farther east.


California's water comes from California. Less hype. More facts.

Where does my water come from?


That Colorado River water isn't exactly "from California" and it accounts for over half of L.A.'s water... just sayin'.




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