Breaking BAASS, Assessing AATIP and Doubting Thomas ‘DeLonge’

a reply to: Badnezzzz

So now Lue has quit the government. Now the gloves can come off on public data harvesting without legal repercussions, and there is a plan. Some of the good ol’ boys from Bigelow's folly coalesced around the new gig...same as the old gig (bigelow’s gig...now defunct and shut down after harvesting the data and pocketing the pork), but with a new title (TTSA), a newish mission, an actual rock pseudo-star, and a grand plan comprised of personalities and their skillsets. We won’t go deep into that dynamic as it distracts from the core analysis...but suffice to say with largely limited-in-the-public-sphere “spy” and niche science skillsets, TTSA was indeed, as someone here stated, “born stillborn”. Not suprising, everything they did looked like what a bunch of bumbling spies would do, yet still they soldiered on.

We have banal media. We have empty merchandising. We have some recent, small, sustained retraction on the sharing of grandiouse statements regarding aliens and craft, and greater attention to spouting the “science only” rhetoric. We have basically nothing...what amounts to not much more than skinwalker ranch episodes specifically designated to draw audience base (aka “start the conversation”) without offering anything substantial in terms of content.

So where do these other guys come in? Not much at all initially. Steve Justice has stated his role (outside of enjoying pseudo-retirement and some modicum of public attention) will be to respond to the data provided by TTSA’s UFO reporting app “SCOUT”, and their “VAULT” which will hold the data/analysis, and to design craft around what the data reports. Look closely at the words SCOUT and VAULT, we will come back to them later.

Hal Putoff has shared that he sought out TTSA, had little interest in UFOs before joining Bigelow (what about serpo????) and says he sold TTSA on his completely undeveloped theory of space/time folding using a mini black hole as propulsion for a craft. He will also pursue plasma propulsion for satellite launches. He apparently also still holds the outdated belief in nuts and bolts alien UFOs as well. In short, Hal is doing nothing more than he has always been doing, which has been pretty much nothing outside of far-away speculative theory in recent years.

Mellon is integral to all of this, as funding matters. Funding comes from two methods outside of Tom’s world of merchandising amd media. Mellon and Lue (and maybe others) are likely essential actors in lining up services/material support connections for TTSA within the military industrial establishment. Many fans were suprised to hear TTSA was hooking up military technology contracts, and forming partnerships with military servicing contractors, although i very much doubt Lue or Mellon were surprised.

The second method of funding for a government contractor (which is what TTSA quickly became outside of their soft media) is through being awarded fresh governmental contracts. Mellon is a player here as well, pushing congress to allocate monies for UFO studies that the military is not currently geared to pursue. Bigelow got an intial contract from Reid under the presumption that no other companies could handle weird science studies. So it was all Bigelow’s pork with or without Reid in a matter of speaking. With congress now allocating big money for potential future studies in UFOs, and with Bigelow shut down, TTSA is the sole civilian contractor poised to take future governmental sourced civilian contracts regarding UFOs, and the funding for such governmental studies now exists partly through TTSA efforts.

Rather than take it any deeper regarding the cast of characters (and their media supporters), lets get to the real meat in the next post. What is the real plan here...what is really going on here? Taking a short break and then will post the final segment.

a reply to: Badnezzzz

First, lets go back to “SCOUT and VAULT”. Look at those words from the viewpoint of a classified military operations, and you can see they are actually very descriptive. SCOUTS bring in data for the core group. That is what scouts do. VAULTS are designed to hold data, and keep classified data from the eyes of outsiders. Yes, SCOUT will involve the public: “We the public” are tasked with becoming SCOUTs for TTSAs data VAULT.

Lue stated TTSA is entering “phase two”. Unsurprisingly, phase two involves promoting the SCOUT app in foreign nations, and hooking up with foreign governments on what is likely to be (at least a partly) on a classified level. TTSA refers to the SCOUT/VAULT artificial intelligence that will crunch the collected data as some sort of evolving super-intelligence that will one day change the world. TTSA also claims the public will have access to SCOUT and VAULT data that the public supplies.

VAULT, to me, does not imply publically transparent data and publically available analysis. Maybe that will be the stuff outside the VAULT? Worse, and somewhat unbelievably, despite (unproven) talk of alien bodies and government captured alien technology, all of TTSA’s “experts” combined have offered exactly ZERO HYPOTHESIS OR ANALYSIS of UAP data to-date (outside of Lue’s “5 observables” offered in the first days). Scientists supposedly look at early data and then come up with a relevant hypothesis to draw further conclusions and analysis through controlled study. How very strange that TTSA has offered no hypothesis to work from scientifically, and none of TTSA’s core actors have offered any analysis of what might be going on with UAP activity, although perhaps they consume the analysis of others.

Apparently, TTSA’s spook division is all about this app (and gaining public involvement). SCOUT was mentioned in the very early days of TTSA, and SCOUT/VAULT was obviously a key element in what brought these players together, and seems to remains the over-riding goal to this day. Yet the analyzing and sharing of UFO data analysis, hypothesis or study is obviously not essential to TTSA, and apparently doesn’t even exist as a TTSA public function, despite TTSA’s stated desire to build fanbase and to publically “discuss” the UFO topic. How does that discussion occur without TTSA offering publically available analysis or even speculation??? SCOUTS, VAULTS, DATA...but no study based on hypothesis, just data gathering and AI???

Clearly, in line with Bigelow’s 22 million classified pork, the SCOUT app offers a potentially marketable tool that is geared to have civilian eyes in every country in the world reporting any aerial unknown directly to a database of military contractors. Sound bigelow-familiar? Strange indeed considering TTSA has repeatedly confirmed they do not value civilian input regarding UAPs. Hmmm.

In summary: No TTSA public analysis, hypothesis or theory regarding UAPs; world wide data gathering from citizens who are not “military trained observers” (who TTSA seems to consider the only valid witnesses); no scientific UAP studies; a VAULT for collected data; a military that cannot legally collect public UAP data, Lue “finishing his mission”, military contracts, a for-profit military contractor corporation; and a literal spy-app. Hmmmmm.

There is no question of the military value a successful SCOUT app would have as world-wide eyes on the sky, and the associated AI analysis would likely, knowing this group, have a classified aspect for sale-to-the-military (as other TTSA activities illustrate) as well as military contracting potential in the data crunching.

So much for disclosure. What is happening with TTSA is clear as day at this point, despite TTSA’s every effort to keep their militray (and even UFO related) activities vague and muddied. There are a lot of different characters in TTSA, and some surely have views and goals that differ from the above. but TTSA’s (poorly hidden) military contractor function seems, largely, to follow the above logic.

I know peeps here have a tendency to speculate long-term (forever), but as TTSA seems to miss, coherant and conclusive analysis should be the goal here. There you have it.

a reply to: Badnezzzz

Congratulation on creating a new account when many others just get server errors trying for these past few months.

I see you came to a similar conclusion posted half a dozen posts before your first one. Here : www.abovetopsecret.com...

But you say

..... he [Lue]was NOT ALLOWED to engage civilian data gathering as a DOD employee, as gathering it would be risking a violation of laws protecting against domestic spying.....

....So now Lue has quit the government. Now the gloves can come off on public data harvesting without legal repercussions, and there is a plan.

Everyone has access to public domain data and government collects data from citizens all the time.

So what specific 'data gathering' is forbidden? What laws are you saying would be violated here?

a reply to: mirageman

Yeah I don't see how collecting UFO data from citizens who voluntarily come forward is any more illegal than collecting Census data or crime reports.

Wow, it's been something like 10 years since I've posted here. Place has a whole new "lighter" look than it did back in the day when it had a cool dark theme.

Anyway - I avoided these waters for so long for a few reasons. One, I had a falling out with ATS ownership - why, I can't even remember now. Had something to do with the Serpo affair. The culmination of our rivalry was when I was asked to speak on a History channel show titled America's Book of Secrets, only to learn afterwards that Mark was also an interviewee...lol. They only included me on the segment about the Mormon underground vault in Utah because when they asked me about all of the other issues they were covering, my answers were far too skeptical for their tastes.

Anyway -- another reason I avoided it was because of the time drain. At the time of Serpo, I had two little kids and family issues that were only made worse by the time I was spending doing this research. With only one income in the family, I needed to find a way to continue researching but also earning at least a little bit of money from it to support the family, hence starting my own site. Alas -- there ain't much money in the paranormal (unless you're a believer or a promoter of it of course).

I'm wading back into these waters because of TTSA. I see the same characters involved back then. I've also been getting a lot of contacts from researchers about Green's work - which I was most recently briefed on in-person by Green in 2016/2017 in a hotel in Maine. I didn't find much that he told me that could be verified -- although I did hope the research would uncover and link injuries in military personnel who had been involved in top secret government projects. But I decided to wait and just watch. Then Annie J came out with Phenomenon and essentially published what Kit had briefed me on 2 years earlier - almost word for word. That caught my attention, because it meant Kit was looking for publicity.

Which brings me back to TTSA and Hal's involvement with their operation. I've recently learned, to my dismay, that Hal is also involved in Kit's latest research, and it has nothing to do with linking victims of military negligence, but instead the research is taking what I can only call a "desperate" angle to revive the same old research the two of them have being doing (and failing at) for so many decades. Parapsychology.

So...here I am again. I hope this doesn't become a time sync. I'm simply here to find researchers who have been looking into TTSA and more specifically Kit's recent research. I know Isaac has been somewhat involved but I lost touch with him years ago. This forum is a nightmare to search, so I can't find anywhere where Kit's recent research is being discussed. But I do know there's a connection with TTSA there, so alas - this thread will have to do for now. Unless someone can help me find a better one.

Hope y'all can give me a hand getting in touch with anyone following this avenue of research. And a big thank you ahead of time.

-Ryan (formerly "ryguy")







a reply to: Badnezzzz

a reply to: mirageman

Congratulation on creating a new account when many others just get server errors trying for these past few months.

Strange is that.

Well, I do a lot of tech blogging so I guess it was easy for me to figure out how to get around that by signing up with my Facebook account...

Not that that really takes much technical know-how. Lol



a reply to: Baablacksheep

a reply to: RyanDube

Hi Ryan and welcome, nice to see you here. I can remember pouring over your work many years ago for a long time! In terms of "being in the right place" - All things considered Ryan - I think you are in the right place; albeit the final chapter in a triology of threads on this very subject of TTSA and it's shady characters that was started back in 2018. Apart from the nonsense/trolls and other things that always curiously turn up when such "matters" are being discussed...

We have long speculated that the likes of Kit Green / Hal Puthoff - are nothing really but failed scientists that had a lot going for them in the early days. Their almost religious like obsession with "Parapsychology" does also seem to have driven the "Ufological Car" down many dirt tracks and scrap yards.

As for Kit wanting publicity - what do you think he wanted it for? More funding of "odd" programs - as they have been used to or something else?

Just for Reference if you struggle to navigate ATS:
Bigelow, UFOs, MUFON and ‘DeLonge’ Road to AATIP

Beyond Bigelow & BAASS, After AATIP and on To the Stars...

a reply to: RyanDube

You have lost me? I was commenting to Mirageman re Mr Baddy.

a reply to: pigsy2400

How can Green be a failed scientist Pigs. He seems to be going ok in his occupation. He seemed to be able to assist John Burroughs too . Do you mean the woo side?

Thank you, really appreciate your kind words.

As far as wanting publicity, I can only go on the same pattern found in their past endeavors. Commonly they use Knapp for much of their earlier "publicity" and achieved a lot of success getting funding from the likes of Firmage and Bigelow for research like Skinwalker Ranch and more.

I can only assume (because I haven't finished following all the leads in this latest thread/story), that they needed a sponsor or more funding at the time he was talking to writers and journalists about this. It always seems to go back to funding and sponsorship. It does seem to be the lifeblood of any scientific research I guess, since Universities themselves really depend on their faculty funding their own research most of the time.

I don't know where this will go, but was fascinated to learn about his use of a psychic in what I originally thought was supposed to be more legitimate MRI/brain research. Just looking for other researchers who've been following this thread as well in the hopes that someone has a copy of the original audio that was leaked around 2018.

Thanks for the links!





a reply to: pigsy2400

I believe that was a reference to his/their failure in ever providing hard evidence for their parapsychology claims, and the apparent link with UFOs most of their work (based on their own interviews) implies.


a reply to: Baablacksheep

a reply to: RyanDube

Ok. Understand.

originally posted by: mirageman
So what specific 'data gathering' is forbidden? What laws are you saying would be violated here?

He mentioned this:

originally posted by: Badnezzzz
So what did Lue, the patriot, do? Two things — first, he hooked up Bigelow through Reid’s funding. Now Bigelow (legal) not the military (illegal), was hoovering in huge reams of public data that was indeed set to be sent straight to intelligence amd military concerns once crunched and collated. Yes, although the military cannot collect intelligence data directly from civilian domestic sources, the military can (in a muddy fashion) contract a private company to do so for them...thus achieving an end run around the constitution and laws protecting citizens against illegal domestic spying.

I don't see where gathering public data would be a problem, but, the MUFON data Bigelow gathered was not all public, right? It had some private information about names of the witnesses. So, for the MUFON private data gathered by Bigelow, and any other private data, the laws against domestic spying might apply, which Snowden talks about here (and other loopholes used to get around those laws but it seems mostly the laws are just broken by the NSA, maybe not by the military which seems to be more law abiding than the NSA).

Snowden-Interview: Transcript

[Interviewer]In many countries, as in America too the agencies like the NSA are not allowed to spy within their own borders on their own people. So the Brits for example they can spy on everybody but the Brits but the NSA can conduct surveillance in England so in the very end they could exchange their data and they would be strictly following the law.

[Snowden]If you ask the governments about this directly they would deny it and point to policy agreements between the members of the Five Eyes saying that they won’t spy on each other’s citizens but there are a couple of key points there. One is that the way they define spying is not the collection of data. The GCHQ is collecting an incredible amount of data on British Citizens just as the National Security Agency is gathering enormous amounts of data on US citizens. What they are saying is that they will not then target people within that data. They won’t look for UK citizens or British citizens. In addition the policy agreements between them that say British won’t target US citizens, US won’t target British citizens are not legally binding. The actual memorandums of agreement state specifically on that that they are not intended to put legal restriction on any government. They are policy agreements that can be deviated from or broken at any time. So if they want to on a British citizen they can spy on a British citizen and then they can even share that data with the British government that is itself forbidden from spying on UK citizens. So there is a sort of a trading dynamic there but it’s not, it’s not open, it’s more of a nudge and wink and beyond that the key is to remember the surveillance and the abuse doesn’t occur when people look at the data it occurs when people gather the data in the first place.

a reply to: RyanDube

Great to see you here Ryan. You did a lot of important pioneering work.

What do you think is the end game with TTSA?

a reply to: RyanDube

Hi Ryan.

I pretty much stopped posting a couple of years ago, for various reasons I’ll skip. For now.

It’s great to see you here, really admire your work. If you let me know what research you were looking for, or a general summation let me know.

If I could ask a few questions:
0) what was the degenerative brain disease you once posted about that was mentioned to you?
1) Do you think Serpo might have been espionage via the spelling mistakes (encoding)?
2) Back during Serpo did you find Dr Green had changed his mind and believed that everything was black projects? That seems to have been a sea change in his views and I’m not sure when.
3) Do you think Serpo might have been a left over of a some sort from a 1960s science fiction / MJ12 playbook that was never deployed?

Thanks, Chris

a reply to: RyanDube

You can find a transcript of it on UFOJOE.net

a reply to: Arbitrageur

I don't see where gathering public data would be a problem, but, the MUFON data Bigelow gathered was not all public, right? It had some private information about names of the witnesses. So, for the MUFON private data gathered by Bigelow, and any other private data, the laws against domestic spying might apply,

I don't know what constitutes as "spying" and the legal context this would come under regarding UFO information. As part of the MUFON/BAASS contract included MUFON inserting the following option on their website

.....Since our investigation may involve third parties, we need to know whether you would consent to the release of your contact information to 3rd parties not connected to or affiliated with MUFON. If you elect to make your contact information available to 3rd parties, you may be contacted by third parties for additional details and information concerning your report. Your contact information includes your name, telephone number, and mailing address.

This caused MUFON a number of problems. Certain Directors did not trust Bigelow and his shady dealings and believed the government was using him to act as a go between. [And we now know he had been used as an asset of the DIA in this case].


MUFON could acquire and store the data, Bigelow as a third party could view that data and the DIA would be another third party involved.

What is illegal about it though?

Breaking "Badnezzz" made the claim so I'd say he/she should provide the exact legal terms that apply. Otherwise the analysis they posted falls down on that point.

a reply to: mirageman

Don’t forget the Vegas mafia.

Hey, thanks coursecatalog, really appreciate you saying that. I wish I could say I was proud of it all but looking back I feel like we could have done a lot of things better. Like staying quiet longer and gathering more information before going public.

But we were pretty young and wanted to blow the whole lid off everything - you get this feeling when you realize you've stumbled upon these level of individuals secretly involved in the inner-workings of a distribution of such an insane UFO story like that, it felt impossible to wait. Especially when the group kept putting out constant updates and they kept gathering more believers.

If I could go back I probably would have liked to have waited until they got to the point with the story - a bit more of a smoking gun. I feel like we killed it halfway through their efforts, and then left more unanswered questions than answered ones.

And because of that I suspect they were able to step back, regroup, and simply change tactics. Which is unfortunate. But you live and learn.

It's hard to say what the TTSA end game is mostly because they've only just gotten started. I was disappointed to see that their greatest first achievement was convincing the NYT (Leslie Kean - their usual UFO journalist...the female version of George Knapp) that the video they had provided was news when it had already been circulating the net for years (Kudos to Isaac Koi on that one.) - www.metabunk.org...

a reply to: coursecatalog