Breaking BAASS, Assessing AATIP and Doubting Thomas ‘DeLonge’

JV's harping on that magic magnesium is quite tiresome.

His 'proof' is that some of his friends claim that it's 'magic'.

We talked about this magic metal, before our collaboration ended.

I shared with him that the 'magic metal' was both of the following:

1) could be ordered over the internet for $999 with free shipping.
2) Could have been made by an ordinary process well before 1957.

And it made no difference.

Kev

Back to the infamous Batman balloon photo.



Maybe someone has been playing tricks I wonder? It's been out there a long time and so you can't help wondering if four eyes are better than one in this case?

originally posted by: mirageman
Maybe someone has been playing tricks I wonder? It's been out there a long time and so you can't help wondering if four eyes are better than one in this case?

I don't get the four eyes comment, I've heard of five eyes before. Yes it's been out a long time, it was part of the Snowden leaks which goes back to the 2013-2014 time frame.

The pdf you linked opens with rotated pages for me, but the pdf on Snowden's site opens in readable format for me:
edwardsnowden.com...

It does seem like they are playing games, but I don't understand what they are trying to accomplish. Is it put a shield-shaped balloon UFO photo out there,then act surprised when it turns out to be a balloon, so that people who find out about that will be more dismissive of UFOs? But what about the "threat" narrative that TTSA seemed to be pushing that seemed more aligned with maybe increasing military funding?

Then someone suggested maybe I'm giving them too much credit to think they have a coherent overall strategy, and maybe they are amateurish attempts at promoting the concept of UFOs and didn't expect people to recognize it as a balloon, can they be that goofy? Same with Mellon's #1 Mylar balloon, did he really not know it was a balloon?

Did you see where McMillan said that "batman-style balloon" photo is the one people were calling the "cube" photo? It looks nothing like a cube to me, this is nuts.

Wow, it really does look like that Batman balloon.
My thoughts on this photo aside from the statement discrepancies (triangle in a cube or whatever) are this.
This Hornet is at quite the altitude, if I had to hazard a guess I would say in the flight levels even FL200 or above.
I think I read somewhere here this Batman balloon was approx 46cmx46cm pretty damn small.
Looks like they are out over the ocean (middle of nowhere).
Chances of them screaming past a small relatively stationary Batman balloon that high up in the middle of nowhere are pretty slim.
If this is a photo of the alleged Batman balloon that flight crew knows it, there is no way that photo was taken without multiple passes if it was a stationary balloon. The WSO could never have gotten his cell phone out in time. Even if he had it sitting somewhere in the cockpit by the time he grabbed it, turned the phone on, unlocked it with his gloves on, oops can’t do that gotta take the gloves off, that balloon would be 2 miles behind them. Hence multiple passes a photo and a positive I.D if it was indeed a Batman balloon or any balloon for that matter.
If they were chasing an object I suspect things would be different and the WSO would be busy doing his job and unable to snap pics.
I don’t know what it is but I’m betting the flight crew has a good idea.
Has there been an official statement or report from the flight crew regarding the incident?

Edit: Ok I think there is a piece of land jutting out from under the nose of the aircraft so might not be in the middle of nowhere.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

I'd go with the most simple explanation. It is all about separating fools from their money.

First they did it with the government. And it worked quite well for some time.

Now they are trying it in the civil sector, thus the opinion pieces in the media, creation of TTSA, the two investment rounds and the TV series. It just seems to be a bit harder due to all the skeptics, lol.

More recently it looks like they are fishing for Silicon Valley entrepreneurs as another money source.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: Willtell

"THE BEST KEPT SECRET: Groundbreaking Research Reveals A New UFO History"
available March 4, 2021

Yes, reading the details about it appears interesting, but was not impressed by him with Fox and co when it came to the book bit. Some on Twitter don't sound impressed either.

a reply to: Ophiuchus1

I agree with just about all you said.

a reply to: Baablacksheep

He's apparently going to discuss some things he's allowed himself to be 'conned by' in this book, so while I will read it, I'll be shaking my head like a windmill no doubt.

originally posted by: Slyder12
Wow, it really does look like that Batman balloon.
My thoughts on this photo aside from the statement discrepancies (triangle in a cube or whatever) are this.
This Hornet is at quite the altitude, if I had to hazard a guess I would say in the flight levels even FL200 or above.
I think I read somewhere here this Batman balloon was approx 46cmx46cm pretty damn small.

Good remarks, the similarity in shape with the batman balloon could just be a coincidence.
You can find foil balloons in just about any shape these days.

The color does not match, but more importantly: Foil or Mylar balloons do not reach the altitude where this picture was taken.

In a test of toy balloons performed for the Federal Department of Aviation, the conclusion was:

The mylar balloons do not go higher than 1000 - 2400 meters before they either explode or lose their "lift." It is noted that there was a wide range in results for the mylar balloons.

The ten 18 inch (46 cm) Mylar balloons provided by Anagram all exploded at about 1000 – 3000 meters (3300 – 9800 ft). The best out of 10 balloons only got to 4650 meters (15000 ft), which was an outlier.

Latex balloons could reach about twice this height.

This maximum altitude is confirmed on the website of the balloon manufacturer: On the Anagram website, the maximum elevation for the 28 inch (71 cm) batman balloon is given as 10000 ft (you get this data by clicking the Batman balloon, it's at about 2/3 of the page).

The jet in the photograph seems to fly much higher than that, so the probability of this being a toy Mylar / foil balloon is pretty low.

a reply to: Guest101

do we actually know the altitude?

I saw a post where someone said the plane was near the ground.

Also, of course, the batman balloon could have been inserted into the photo?

Just asking.. whatever is the truth, it's not very impressive or compelling.

And what about the number 1 Mylar balloon from 2005?

The American government and intelligence agencies have always been interested in fringe groups for various reasons. The hippy movement, civil rights groups and UFO groups like NICAP and others historically.

Home grown dissidents being the main one, any potential threat that may be perceived to the governance of the Country aka anti government groups, with the more recent types like the Qanon nonsense getting mainstream attention. Ideas and chats online are one thing: but when those ideas start getting traction in the real world, maybe some folks sit up and pay attention!

Ufo groups specifically are people who perhaps have started asking too many questions, cast wild accusations about what the government is really doing and some of the citizens that decide to educate themselves on the inner workings of government, SAPS, Black projects and it's secrets, are now in this technological age: potentially perceived as threats to security, intelligence and even governance.

Maybe they should have a program called the: "Advanced Populace Threat Identification Program"?

With the increasing ease at which information is shared and the most odd of things can go viral, from a cat dancing to a threat of storming a classified installation in the desert: perhaps ufology needs to be "reset" to zero by those who are accused by it so frequently? Especially when secrets, SAPS and black projects become the centre piece of those accusations...

Take back control of a meme that had its potential applications historically, but whose control was lost long ago and is now a "threat". Control of the meme needs to be wrestled back by its owners and reset to zero, 2017 it could be argued was the new zero with TTSA at the healm of that reset, ignoring all of which has come before and maybe a chance to sanitise messy programs and technoscams.

"The Great Ufological Reset"

It's just a theory of course but it may well explain these last few years...

can anyone tell me more about how a square within a circle is suppose to be involved with the current boring kerfuffle or other similar boring kerfuffle?

it's a topic of personal interest.

I had discussed this with JV at one point, how a normal looking object might trigger unusual perceptions, including ones like 'square within a circle'. I suppose it might be as simple, as the human mind flipping through various explanations for how something looks, looking for one that matches.

but I don't see how a batman balloon would trigger such a process.

I've also discussed with some folks how such effects often occur during a 'high strangeness' event; where you get the feeling of a field of altered reality, EM effects, static electricity effects, the strange silence, the time dilation seeming effects and all that.. during my own 'encounter' I saw a pyramid within a cube at one point..

I"m supposing there is some common neurological wiring involved.. i don't know.. and/or of course the "Flatland" by Abbot type of effects possibly, of N-dim space vectoring into 3-dim space or some such thing.

Kev

a reply to: pigsy2400

Not a bad theory.

What does your theory say about TTSA being so lame, and using known debunked photos to promote 'UFOs'?

Does the USG/TTSA just assume that people in general are completely stupid and will fall for anything?

It's almost like they don't care one whit, whether they are caught red-handed and embarrass themselves like toddlers who have crapped their training pants.

I myself have had no contact with TDL, etc, just some of the scientists, who eventually wised up and quit,
who were 'not that stupid'.

Kev

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: pigsy2400

Not a bad theory.

What does your theory say about TTSA being so lame, and using known debunked photos to promote 'UFOs'?

Think about how things have gone with TTSA. They've pretty much tantalised the UFO community but rarely engaged with it until very recently. Ignoring Tom's social media posts.

The message now though is very much one of engaging with the US Govt. to investigate and report UFOs/UAPs with a degree of transparency. They are still keeping up a pretence of maybe Roswell and its mystery magic UFO metal is being hidden somewhere. But the message is one that "Yes, something is going on" but no one wanted to listen in the higher echelons of command. We can't break secrecy oaths, let's make the government do it".

The evidence they've presented ranges from downright hokey to mildly interesting. None of it is conclusive of anything. There's a lot of inference and implication involved. It always come with build up of anticipation and speculating on what's coming next. Which often lasts longer than the discussions about what is finally delivered. Recent events have resulted in disappointment for those initially excited by TTSA. But there is still a hardcore of eternal optimists believing the "announcing forthcoming announcements" tactic will one day bring them a spaceship and an alien pilot.

I'd say one of the goals is to flush out the 40 years (maybe longer) of the absolute crap that was injected into ufology since the late 70s by so called intelligence agents. Ably supported by ufotainers with their own motives for playing along.

There are no underground alien bases, no alien abductions, no cows being sliced and diced by Zeta Reticulans and certainly no agreements signed by US Presidents with alien races coming here. They were all cover stories for something else that needs to remain hidden.

Delete all the old mythology and try to turn back the clock. Erase the past and go back to the good old US government not really knowing what's going on. Just strange things in the sky that people have seen.

That is the disclosure that no one will notice coming. The slow removal of the toxins they introduced over many years from the ufo lore as it's all slowly dismantled. In other words things had become so bad that they need the "Anti-Doty" to cure ufology. Instead of having the ufo community as an annoying irritant they will be feeding from their new saviours hands. Waiting obediently on the next UAPTF report to appear.

originally posted by: Guest101
The jet in the photograph seems to fly much higher than that, so the probability of this being a toy Mylar / foil balloon is pretty low.

Your interpretation of the test data flawed, and we don't really know the altitude of the plane. What the data show is a lot of variability in altitude performance for the mylar balloons tested, so the main conclusion I would draw is that the altitude performance is highly variable in those 10 samples.

The best out of 10 balloons only got to 4650 meters (15000 ft), which was an outlier.

I think outlier is not an accurate characterization of one sample out of ten samples. We need a larger sample size than ten samples to determine a distribution; then if we have a handle on the distribution, we can say what is and is not an outlier.

So what conclusions can be drawn from the balloon data? If the pilots saw 10 of these objects at a 15,000 foot altitude, we could conclude the data in the test shows that would be very unlikely. But the test doesn't suggest that a single balloon such as seen can't go up to 15000 feet, in fact it confirms it can happen and if 10 mylar balloons are launched one of them probably will reach 15000 feet. Also, the wide variability in the data suggests that if you test a larger sample size, you will probably find a higher high, and a lower low, than in a small sample. Since they only tested 10 samples and 10% of them reached 15000 feet, I doubt very much that 15000 feet is the maximum which would be seen be seen if a larger sample size was tested.

a reply to: mirageman

So in short, you and Pigs are saying:

The USG is using TTSA as useful idiots to debunk UFology and get a clean slate,
so they can then re-use the UFOlogy meme for newer and more effective psychological operations
more tailored to the modern day?

That would attribute far more intelligence to them than I wish to attribute, but I can't say it's not
possible. I've been hearing this theory form for a while on ATS.

Could be!

But of course that does NOTHING for 'ufology' as there are no UFOs, not in any objective sense,
only in (mostly) subjective senses.

and it would then stay that way.

It's like a lot of things I guess..

for example if 'god' showed up one day, every religion in the world would be put
out of business.. as obviously none of them have it right. None of them ACTUALLY
want 'god' to show up, it would ruin their corrupt power structure.

I think it's the same with UFOLogy.

Thanks for the response. Good response.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I think Pigsy was saying it more from a sociological angle. I was coming at it from a ufological one.

Remember these words?

Dr Christopher 'Kit' Green - "In a country that has a large, educated population there is a large subset of individuals who suffer from what's called paraphrenia. Paraphrenia is a form of mental illness that doesn't interfere with your everyday life. It means that you can have a delusion and not be crazy, a delusion that you can confine and control. Many of us have one corner of the mind that is delusional - I bet you that I do.

'I might, for example, be religious - I'm an Episcopalian, though as such, I am protected from diagnosis, as are all the UFO buffs, because a large social structure of shared beliefs, like a religion, cannot be a delusion. So all those people who believe that they are being beamed at by the government can no longer be diagnosed as crazy - there are just too many of them.

'But, if there is a condition that is threatening to the social structure - like the idea that the aliens are here and they are taking our babies, or that God hates people of a certain creed or colour - and if people who believe in that kind of delusion band together, they can end up encouraging each other to get a lot sicker, or they strap on belts and make themselves human bombs. So we have to know how to deal with these people and how to prevent them from being dangerous to others.

'This applies to the UFO problem. If something really strange in the area of UFOs is true, then what do we do about conveying that information to the public? First we consider what may be the basic facts: maybe there are civilised lifeforms elsewhere in the universe; maybe they visited us in their spaceships a couple of times and then went back home; perhaps they left a vehicle or some technology behind and we've spent a lot of time and money trying to figure out how to use it. And there may be people in the government who believe that this did happen, and believe that the information needs to be public knowledge, because perhaps someone outside of the government will be able to make sense of their technology. But there's another group of people in power who say, "No, it will make them sick to know all this, we can't let the story out, it's too dangerous....

'So, what do we do? There are studies on both sides of the problem. Some show that people will go crazy and jump of bridges when they're presented with this information. Others, however, say that if you don't want them to go crazy, what you do is systematically desensitize their fears.

'If you are a psychiatrist with a patient you can do that in a very methodical way. If you are a sociologist working with a group of students at a university you can do this in a very structured and experimental way. But if you are a government with a population it's a lot more complicated. Sure, there are those who are just going to shrug and say, "I always knew the aliens were real, it's no big deal." But you also know that some of them are nuttier than a fruitcake and could cause a lot of trouble. So we have to ask ourselves how we can tell people what they deserve to know and, maybe, what they need to know?

'The way to do it is to construct a framework whereby they can parse out the things that they've heard that are not true, and you whittle it down to a manageable story. A story like this: "There were three spaceships that came here over thirty years, and we've got one of them. We can't figure out how it works, we've crashed it because there's a lot of physics that we've still got to learn. We do have something that's like a magnethydrodynamic toroid, and it really did get a craft of the ground, but it smelled bad and it killed a couple of pilots. And we're really sorry about that, but we did it because we've got this machine that came from another planet, and we need to know how it works." '

'How do you tell people that story? If it's true?' he added, almost parenthetically.

"If you were to give them the core story right off the bat, they'd get sick, so you do it slowly over ten or twenty years.You put out a bunch of movies, a bunch of books, a bunch of stories, a bunch of Internet memes about reptilian aliens eating our children, about all the crazy stuff that we've seen recently in Serpo. Then one day you say, "Hey, all that stuff is nonsense, relax, it's not that bad, you don't have to worry, the reality is this..." - and then you give them the real story."

Mirage Men - Mark Pilkington

So this may be the slow rewinding of the "real story". But there never was a spaceship.

a reply to: mirageman

Right.

But of course Dr. Green also had paraphrenia it appears.

That's how this sort of thing spreads so quickly.

Once you get a Kit Green, or a Gary Nolan or a Jacques Vallee
(or a Kelly Pretty Bear to a lesser degree) 'infected', then people
who choose to respect an 'authority figure' become infected.

And of course, if you can wave around an ultimate authority
figure ('god' or the 'USG') then those who fall for the appeal
to authority logical fallacy are then 'hooked'.

Oh -- I'm not saying there is NOTHING there, there, in terms
of anomalous things.. but I am admitting that with great
power (over the credulous) there comes great responsibility.

Kev

a reply to: Arbitrageur

There are lots of problems with this picture.I've already posted them. But here they are again.



The article about this photograph very confusing.

1. Descriptions of the object are contradictory.

...described as an “unidentified silver ‘cube-shaped’ object” encountered by military pilots as it hovered motionlessly over the ocean.

It is obviously not a 'cube shaped object'

2. The location is in question

They asked an expert about it being a dropsonde.

He said;

“Dropsonde are dropped into hurricanes over water, not over military bases,” Hock added. “

The report says the obect "hovered motionlessly over the ocean". No mention of it being over a military base???


3. We have claims that the picture does not depict a balloon.

...all three officials we spoke with seemed dismissive of the idea that it depicts a balloon.

But it does look like a balloon. Maybe the three officials were Col. Ray Charles, General Stevie Wonder and Marshall Andrea Bocelli?


4. The date the photo was taken is in question

...officials with the DoD...confirmed that the leaked image is the same photo provided in a 2018 intelligence position report issued by the UAPTF.

But the EXIF data says the picture was created on March 4th 2019???

5. The picture is allegedly a photo of a photo?

The metadata for the photo we shared relates to someone taking a picture of a picture with their cellphone. The actual photo that was included in the report had differing metadata

Twitter archived

I don't know how large the original photo must have been to have taken a picture with that level of clarity?

6. Is the object really there in the photo?

It could be a fake or a joke that somehow got passed around. We don't really know. There are already copies of a lower resolution blurred version of it that have been around since at least May 2020 too. As posted earlier in the thread.

It's also strange how the author gets access to these people and reports for his articles? He's the same guy who just a year out of police duties was given the BAASS report and claims to be in frequent contact with some of TTSA's entertainment division too. Almost like he was chosen as a messenger.

originally posted by: mirageman


'I might, for example, be religious - I'm an Episcopalian, though as such, I am protected from diagnosis, as are all the UFO buffs, because a large social structure of shared beliefs, like a religion, cannot be a delusion. So all those people who believe that they are being beamed at by the government can no longer be diagnosed as crazy - there are just too many of them. '

Oh Lawdy-Lawd!

"The mysterious symptoms that have afflicted American diplomats stationed in Cuba, puzzling scientists and intelligence agencies alike, are most likely to have been caused by “directed, pulsed radio frequency energy”, according to a report commissioned by the US government.

Those suffering from Havana syndrome, as the condition has become known, have complained of headaches, nausea, dizziness, blurred vision and other ailments.

Possible explanations have included everything from mosquito fumigation to noisy crickets.

But a report from National Academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine, commissioned by the State Department, suggests the involvement of radio frequency energy. "

www.theguardian.com...

I disagree that these symptoms are most likely explained by a pulsed frequency, I think it far more likely, given the locations, that the diplomatic staff were suffering from something like cognitive dissonance and that stretches all the way, clearly, to those trying to explain it hence we have a Jerome K Jerome, three men in a boat outcome to that study.

Has Washington collectively lost the plot? I don't think anyone has the answers and that's the heart of the problem. They're all searching around for whoever has the key to the secrets but there's no key because there isn't a secret. There are patent protections, industrial espionage I am sure but big secrets that'll rock the world, no, not a one that isn't all ready out there is some shape or form. Nada. Just national paranoia, delusion and psychosis - not the alien or UFO thing - but the America being a protector of freedom-thing.

The concern seems to be, from Franc Milburn's point of view that mistaking a mylar balloon for an alien arrival or even a demon apocalypse could lead the US to launch nuclear missiles. I thought such a thing ridiculous as I went to bed last night, this morning confronted with the outlandish conclusions regarding Havana Syndrome, I am far less assured.

Really you have to laugh.