It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Heroes Don't get captured

page: 5
24
<< 2  3  4    6  7  8 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 5 2020 @ 06:19 PM
link   
I love how these foreign nationalist lefties, that have been hyper critical of American foreign policy (in some cases, rightfully so) are now jumping in to the fray, pretending to care about our vets all of the sudden.

Trust me, most of us know who the real heroes are (a couple of them have posted in this thread...projectvxn...cough cough), and we know what our president means when he talks about McCain. We were talking about it long before President Trump. We know who McCain was and where he laid his loyalties.

These glib, superficial generalities are glaringly opportunistic.




posted on Sep, 5 2020 @ 06:24 PM
link   

originally posted by: walkinghomer

originally posted by: MRinder
a reply to: walkinghomer

1. As an American, do you believe that you're not a hero if you're captured during combat?

It doesn't make you a hero, it also doesn't make you not a hero.


2. Was President Trump wrong for saying that?

No because we are all allowed to have an opinion.



3. Should such a statement not be an automatic disqualifier for the highest office in the land?

Of course not, it would be idiotic to think that is disqualifying.


4. Should mandatory military service be a requirement for President?

No





1. So what is your definition of hero. According to Webster one of the characteristics of a hero is "one who shows great courage". I would say going to war and knowing you could be killed at any time is courageous

2. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but if that is your belief, you should not have absolute power to send those men and woman to war

3. So if Joe Biden came out and said. People who serve in the military are not heroes because they were captured, you would be ok with that?

4. Your opinion which i respect


To answer #3.. I don't judge anyone based on one statement they may or may have not made.

I beleive Trump was demeaning McCain because McCain was a globalist. Trump was trying to send out the message that he was not on the globalist bandwagon.

McCain promoted sending men to war purely to promote military equipment sales. There is nothing that Trump could say that would be worse than what McCain actually did while in office.



posted on Sep, 5 2020 @ 06:27 PM
link   

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: AlaskanDad

No.

John McCain was a political opportunist who was clearly part of the fake Russian collusion narrative, arming ISIS, and destabilizing the Middle East. He opened the door to the Caliphate and they came crashing through.

Trump has started no new wars and is being vilified for trying to bring our troops home after 2 decades of combat.

Nothing John McCain did while in Vietnam justifies his wanton use of young American blood for the neocon agenda.


Absolutely, no doubt this is what McCain was absolutely guilty of #1 and #2 I'm old enough to remember the left spitting on Vietnam veteran soldiers as they returned home so the OP needs to get out of here with that crap. Trump hammered McCain because exactly whats in the post above.



posted on Sep, 5 2020 @ 06:29 PM
link   

originally posted by: AlaskanDad

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: walkinghomer

OK, I'll play.

I did not vote for Trump, I do not like Trump and no, he never should have said that. It was wrong to say that.

I'm voting for Trump this time however. He's far better than the alternative and affords us the best chance at a quick economic recovery. Biden = recession and more government control.

Only an idiot would raise taxes when the economy is hurting. Only an idiot would pass new regulations when the people are hurting financially. This is the worst possible time in history for a progressive President who would pander to radicals.




And Trump denies he called John McCain a loser, but that's Don the con for ya.


I don't have to like him to vote for him. I just have to think he's the best option at this time in history.

We can't afford to have another lethargic recovery like we had under Obama and Biden's handlers are more and more like the fringe.



posted on Sep, 5 2020 @ 06:31 PM
link   
a reply to: walkinghomer

I don't agree with the personal attack on McCain's service.
I'm sure he didn't intend to get captured.
President Trump does need to learn where to draw the line on how he talks about people.
But at the same time, I think screw it.
I doubt McCain had nothing but good things to say about Trump.
So, why not attack back.
But I agree, it should had been a different insult.



posted on Sep, 5 2020 @ 06:42 PM
link   
I thought they kept that man in a tiger cage and bayoneted his testes.


wrong guy?



posted on Sep, 5 2020 @ 06:57 PM
link   

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: projectvxn
John McCain is staring up at us right now.

A little hot where that treasonous scumbag now resides. Please do shed those crocodile tears for the sake of King Neocon of Warmonger Mountain.


What was McCain's act of treason?


He helped ISIS and The Muslim Brotherhood at the behest of Obama, another traitor.


And how did he help them? Please present actual evidence that are not opinion pieces based entirely upon the photo with the misidentification of the representative of the Free Syrian Army.



posted on Sep, 5 2020 @ 07:09 PM
link   

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: AlaskanDad

No.

John McCain was a political opportunist who was clearly part of the fake Russian collusion narrative, arming ISIS, and destabilizing the Middle East. He opened the door to the Caliphate and they came crashing through.

Trump has started no new wars and is being vilified for trying to bring our troops home after 2 decades of combat.

Nothing John McCain did while in Vietnam justifies his wanton use of young American blood for the neocon agenda.


And Trump's acceptance of Kashoggi's murder and Trump's refusal to speak out against it, represents a closed door to the Caliphate? It is clear that Trump is 'owned' (and probably always has been since the Bin Laden family and other Saudi's funded his company so heavily).

Trump is clearly a neocon (new conservative), far newer and far less 'conservative' than McCain.

Donald Trump was also not exonerated from potential Russian conspiracy. It states so clearly in Mueller's report.


McCain was NOT conservative. The "Russian connection" to Trump's campaign was debunked by congress not too long ago. That render's Mueller's report not only false but highly misleading. You know how when a newspaper retracts a statement when new facts are found to prove that statement wrong? Yeah, that didn't happen with the Mueller report.



posted on Sep, 5 2020 @ 07:19 PM
link   

originally posted by: walkinghomer

originally posted by: HalWesten
You're assuming all of us agree with everything he says. We don't, we just choose not to make a bigger deal out of it than it is. It's nothing more than disrespecting a failure that got a lot of his fellow soldiers killed, got captured in war, tortured, finally released. Where is he a hero? Did he save any lives during his capture? He fed off his "hero" status for decades when most of his military career was a sham, buried by his daddy. So bigsnowman, you are factually wrong about his service record. I'll give him credit for living through that but that's it.

You guys that keep spewing the "draft dodger" crap need to look at the facts. Since you all choose to ignore them, this is from Snopes (I know but it was the first one that came up) who got their info from The Smoking Gun who got them from the National Archives.

Read these carefully, there's no "dodging" going on here unless you consider being educated dodging.


Trump himself has never served in the military. Selective Service records obtained from the National Archives by The Smoking Gun in 2011 reveal the following history of his draft eligibility:

1964:
Donald Trump became eligible for the draft on his 18th birthday (14 June 1964) and registered with the Selective Service System 10 days later. He received the first of four 2-S (college) deferments on 28 July 1964.

1965:
Trump received his second college deferment on 14 December 1965.

1966:
Trump’s previous deferment expired and he was reclassified 1-A (available for military service) on 22 November 1966. His 2-S deferment was renewed on 13 December.

1967:
No record.

1968:
Trump received his fourth and final college deferment on 16 January 1968. After graduating from Wharton, he was reclassified 1-A on 9 July 1968. Trump underwent an Armed Forces physical examination (with a result listed only as “DISQ”) on 19 September 1968 and was reclassified 1-Y (qualified for service only in time of war or national emergency) on 15 October 1968.

According to a statement from the Trump campaign, the 1-Y classification stemmed from Trump’s having bone spurs in both heels:

While attending the University of Pennsylvania’s prestigious Wharton School of Finance, Mr. Trump received a minor medical deferment for bone spurs on both heels of his feet. The medical deferment was expected to be short-term and he was therefore entered in the military draft lottery, where he received an extremely high number, 356 out of 365.

The details of that medical exemption remain unclear and controversial, and most draft-related government medical records from the Vietnam era were not preserved.

1972:

Despite the supposedly “short-term” nature of Trump’s disqualifying physical condition, on 17 February 1972 he was reclassified 4-F (not qualified for military service), presumably due to the abolishment of the 1-Y classification the previous year.


If he got shafted by the GOP it's because he was a RINO and should have been a Democrat. Just like Mitt Romney.


Lets just say that John McCain was a traitor and everything you stated is correct.

1. As an American, do you believe that you're not a hero if you're captured during combat?
2. Was President Trump wrong for saying that?
3. Should such a statement not be an automatic disqualifier for the highest office in the land?
4. Should mandatory military service be a requirement for President?


1. Being captured does not make one a hero. Heroic acts such as dragging wounded fellow soldiers out of harm's way or shielding them from enemy fire while taking all the shots yourself (sacrificing yourself for their lives) makes a hero. A hero does over-the-top actions to save or prevent others from being hurt or killed. Keeping your mouth shut during capture is commendable, but not heroic.

2. Calling McCain a loser? No. Saying he doesn't respect those that get captured was lame, absolutely. But given the circumstances at that time I believe it was directed only at McCain and the Left is blowing it all out of proportion because of the words he used. He's not a smart speaker. I've always said that.

3. Hell no! Others have said far worse things in context and they get away with "oh that's just so & so spouting off, no big deal". That's ridiculous.

4. Not mandatory. It would be a good idea but the Left wouldn't have had two of their most favorite presidents if that were the case. Not everyone is cut out for the military, but that doesn't mean they can't be good leaders. I have a lot of friends that served and I wouldn't put them in charge of something that important just because they served.



posted on Sep, 5 2020 @ 07:23 PM
link   
a reply to: walkinghomer

I only got to page 3 when I realized that nobody had yet thought of the obvious.

4) Being assigned Commander in Chief of the U.S. Military is the "mandatory military service ... requirement for President".
According to Article II, Section 2, Clause I of the Constitution,

1) If you are a hero, then getting captured does not change that.
2) I don't care.
3) No. If the electoral college vote goes in his favor then nothing he said before that matters except as a matter of historic record.



posted on Sep, 5 2020 @ 07:36 PM
link   

originally posted by: walkinghomer

originally posted by: Skid Mark
a reply to: walkinghomer
Bone spurs the clown never served. He dodged the draft.He really has no room to talk about heroes.


Agreed. Which is why they should make it mandatory that to serve as President you must have military service.


Did you have the same stance for Obama and Clinton?

No presidents had military service from 1909 to 1945 (Taft to FDR).

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Being in the military or being a cop or firefighter doesn’t, in my opinion, automatically make you a hero.

Your character does.

Was Hitler a hero?

A hero is someone whose character I would have my children aspire to be like. McCain does not fit the bill for me.

I didn’t vote for Trump, and his biggest problem is also his greatest strength... he speaks his mind. Sometimes better, sometimes worse. That being said...


In the same quote, Trump says, “I believe perhaps he’s a war hero.” Watch the quote. See it in context:

youtu.be...



posted on Sep, 5 2020 @ 07:37 PM
link   

originally posted by: AlaskanDad
a reply to: projectvxn


Maybe so, but John McCain was a better man then cadet bone spurs!

Trump really needs to man up!

Well , learn something of the US military and their physicals .
Then apologize.



posted on Sep, 5 2020 @ 07:40 PM
link   

originally posted by: HalWesten

originally posted by: walkinghomer

originally posted by: HalWesten
You're assuming all of us agree with everything he says. We don't, we just choose not to make a bigger deal out of it than it is. It's nothing more than disrespecting a failure that got a lot of his fellow soldiers killed, got captured in war, tortured, finally released. Where is he a hero? Did he save any lives during his capture? He fed off his "hero" status for decades when most of his military career was a sham, buried by his daddy. So bigsnowman, you are factually wrong about his service record. I'll give him credit for living through that but that's it.

You guys that keep spewing the "draft dodger" crap need to look at the facts. Since you all choose to ignore them, this is from Snopes (I know but it was the first one that came up) who got their info from The Smoking Gun who got them from the National Archives.

Read these carefully, there's no "dodging" going on here unless you consider being educated dodging.


Trump himself has never served in the military. Selective Service records obtained from the National Archives by The Smoking Gun in 2011 reveal the following history of his draft eligibility:

1964:
Donald Trump became eligible for the draft on his 18th birthday (14 June 1964) and registered with the Selective Service System 10 days later. He received the first of four 2-S (college) deferments on 28 July 1964.

1965:
Trump received his second college deferment on 14 December 1965.

1966:
Trump’s previous deferment expired and he was reclassified 1-A (available for military service) on 22 November 1966. His 2-S deferment was renewed on 13 December.

1967:
No record.

1968:
Trump received his fourth and final college deferment on 16 January 1968. After graduating from Wharton, he was reclassified 1-A on 9 July 1968. Trump underwent an Armed Forces physical examination (with a result listed only as “DISQ”) on 19 September 1968 and was reclassified 1-Y (qualified for service only in time of war or national emergency) on 15 October 1968.

According to a statement from the Trump campaign, the 1-Y classification stemmed from Trump’s having bone spurs in both heels:

While attending the University of Pennsylvania’s prestigious Wharton School of Finance, Mr. Trump received a minor medical deferment for bone spurs on both heels of his feet. The medical deferment was expected to be short-term and he was therefore entered in the military draft lottery, where he received an extremely high number, 356 out of 365.

The details of that medical exemption remain unclear and controversial, and most draft-related government medical records from the Vietnam era were not preserved.

1972:

Despite the supposedly “short-term” nature of Trump’s disqualifying physical condition, on 17 February 1972 he was reclassified 4-F (not qualified for military service), presumably due to the abolishment of the 1-Y classification the previous year.


If he got shafted by the GOP it's because he was a RINO and should have been a Democrat. Just like Mitt Romney.


Lets just say that John McCain was a traitor and everything you stated is correct.

1. As an American, do you believe that you're not a hero if you're captured during combat?
2. Was President Trump wrong for saying that?
3. Should such a statement not be an automatic disqualifier for the highest office in the land?
4. Should mandatory military service be a requirement for President?


1. Being captured does not make one a hero. Heroic acts such as dragging wounded fellow soldiers out of harm's way or shielding them from enemy fire while taking all the shots yourself (sacrificing yourself for their lives) makes a hero. A hero does over-the-top actions to save or prevent others from being hurt or killed. Keeping your mouth shut during capture is commendable, but not heroic.

2. Calling McCain a loser? No. Saying he doesn't respect those that get captured was lame, absolutely. But given the circumstances at that time I believe it was directed only at McCain and the Left is blowing it all out of proportion because of the words he used. He's not a smart speaker. I've always said that.

3. Hell no! Others have said far worse things in context and they get away with "oh that's just so & so spouting off, no big deal". That's ridiculous.

4. Not mandatory. It would be a good idea but the Left wouldn't have had two of their most favorite presidents if that were the case. Not everyone is cut out for the military, but that doesn't mean they can't be good leaders. I have a lot of friends that served and I wouldn't put them in charge of something that important just because they served.


Appreciate your response. Perhaps #4 could include children as well.



posted on Sep, 5 2020 @ 07:43 PM
link   

originally posted by: SuperStudChuck

originally posted by: walkinghomer

originally posted by: Skid Mark
a reply to: walkinghomer
Bone spurs the clown never served. He dodged the draft.He really has no room to talk about heroes.


Agreed. Which is why they should make it mandatory that to serve as President you must have military service.


Did you have the same stance for Obama and Clinton?

No presidents had military service from 1909 to 1945 (Taft to FDR).

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Being in the military or being a cop or firefighter doesn’t, in my opinion, automatically make you a hero.

Your character does.

Was Hitler a hero?

A hero is someone whose character I would have my children aspire to be like. McCain does not fit the bill for me.

I didn’t vote for Trump, and his biggest problem is also his greatest strength... he speaks his mind. Sometimes better, sometimes worse. That being said...


In the same quote, Trump says, “I believe perhaps he’s a war hero.” Watch the quote. See it in context:

youtu.be...


Obviously I meant going forward they should have military experience.



posted on Sep, 5 2020 @ 07:45 PM
link   

originally posted by: walkinghomer
My question to you is:

1. As an American, do you believe that you're not a hero if you're captured during combat?
2. Was President Trump wrong for saying that?
3. Should such a statement not be an automatic disqualifier for the highest office in the land?
4. Should mandatory military service be a requirement for President?


1) It depends on the actions you take during your capture.
2) Yes, it was a blanket statement that he didn't think through. Surprise, surprise.
3) No
4) No



posted on Sep, 5 2020 @ 07:47 PM
link   

originally posted by: walkinghomer
I was extremely bothered by President Trump comment about John McCain not being a hero. How could someone running for the highest office in the land say such a thing. How could people support such a person and forgive such a statement. To refresh your memory, the exact statement was:

“He’s not a war hero,” said Trump. “He was a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren’t captured.”

ATS is no doubt a far right leaning political website and the majority of posters here are devoted trump supporters. I won't call you "trumtards" or "trumpanzees" but its safe to say that short of the president doing something extremely extremely crazy, you would still support him.

My question to you is:


1. As an American, do you believe that you're not a hero if you're captured during combat?
2. Was President Trump wrong for saying that?
3. Should such a statement not be an automatic disqualifier for the highest office in the land?
4. Should mandatory military service be a requirement for President?



He's not "not" a hero because he was captured, he's not a hero because he signed a confession to war crimes during his time as a POW and then in his last days he became a traitor by involving himself in a coup against Trump even after Trump was elected.



posted on Sep, 5 2020 @ 07:51 PM
link   

originally posted by: walkinghomer

originally posted by: SuperStudChuck

originally posted by: walkinghomer

originally posted by: Skid Mark
a reply to: walkinghomer
Bone spurs the clown never served. He dodged the draft.He really has no room to talk about heroes.


Agreed. Which is why they should make it mandatory that to serve as President you must have military service.


Did you have the same stance for Obama and Clinton?

No presidents had military service from 1909 to 1945 (Taft to FDR).

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Being in the military or being a cop or firefighter doesn’t, in my opinion, automatically make you a hero.

Your character does.

Was Hitler a hero?

A hero is someone whose character I would have my children aspire to be like. McCain does not fit the bill for me.

I didn’t vote for Trump, and his biggest problem is also his greatest strength... he speaks his mind. Sometimes better, sometimes worse. That being said...


In the same quote, Trump says, “I believe perhaps he’s a war hero.” Watch the quote. See it in context:

youtu.be...


Obviously I meant going forward they should have military experience.


Are you making an argument that presidents with military experience have been better than those without? If not why make the change?
edit on 5-9-2020 by SuperStudChuck because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2020 @ 07:52 PM
link   
Lotta people didn't like John McCain. McCain doesn't represent all men and women who served. What Trump thinks of McCain doesn't represent what he thinks of those who serve.

Trump was never given any reason to praise McCain, so he didn't.

Fake stupid news by a desperate media trying to prop up a candidate with advanced dementia.



posted on Sep, 5 2020 @ 07:55 PM
link   

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: walkinghomer
My question to you is:

1. As an American, do you believe that you're not a hero if you're captured during combat?
2. Was President Trump wrong for saying that?
3. Should such a statement not be an automatic disqualifier for the highest office in the land?
4. Should mandatory military service be a requirement for President?


1) It depends on the actions you take during your capture.
2) Yes, it was a blanket statement that he didn't think through. Surprise, surprise.
3) No
4) No


I would agree with you that if going to war makes you a hero, turning against your country while being captured removes the hero title and adds a traitor title. I'm not saying I believe McCain was a traitor



posted on Sep, 5 2020 @ 07:57 PM
link   
a reply to: walkinghomer

So much is wrong with your OP I don't even know where to start.

First off, if you want to find out what the left actually thought about John McCain, you should simply review the media in 2000 where John ran for President and he was absolutely eviscerated by the left.

Second, you should probably read this...


First a bit of an introduction on the meaning of HERO…

The word hero in today’s world is far overused. “Hero” is so much overused it has diluted the value and real meaning and has cheapened the word for those who actually deserve the term. For example, we have foot ball heroes, NASCAR heroes, and everyday police, fire fighters, and even our everyday military folks are called heroes for just doing their jobs. I too amongst many millions of others was in the military and I am certainly not a hero for simply serving–I did nothing heroic.

A hero does something truly heroic and above what his job or calling is and many times that may mean to save a life and at great risk to his life or to sit atop a burning tank with a machine gun and kill a couple hundred attacking Germans as Audie Murphy (America’s most decorated hero) did in WWII. By applying the word hero to sports figures and even cancer survivors (I am one of those too) we have turned the term hero into an everyday word having little real value anymore–we have diluted the word, its meaning, and its value. We should stop destroying this word, its meaning and its value and return it and the people who earned the title for real to the status it once had.

I am a conservative and a Republican, and I do not like anything about John McCain. He dumped his wife when she was injured in an accident, remarried into serious beer distribution money. His soft television interview voice belies the way he really is; mean, nasty, hot tempered, vindictive, a progressive, a back stabber (ask Palin) and quick to pretend and project he is a nice guy. Look at how he back stabbed and treated Sarah Palin after HIS engineered massive loss of the presidency–and that loss was all caused by him alone.


John McCain was no hero

So as a military member with combat experience who does not consider herself a hero for what I did, let's start...

1. You are not a hero if you are captured during combat. You ARE a hero if you get through it without betraying your country... Songbird McCain most certainly did not do that.

2. President Trump said what every Korean and Viet Nam veteran that knew John actually felt.

3. Just... No. An actual disqualifier should be supporting domestic terrorists in an attempt to influence a Presidential election. See... the Democratic party in 2020.

4. It would be nice, since he/she would be Commander in Chief and have some sort of idea what our military is and how it works. It would also be nice because we would never have a Democrat President again.

Hope that helped with your questions.





top topics



 
24
<< 2  3  4    6  7  8 >>

log in

join