God Doesnt Exist

What I've said was indeed true about your writing style, you tend to italisize things to make them look more important than they really are, but thats beside the point. Thanks for your denial about deities being disproven. Mirrors reflect photons, not personal thoughts. I know all science has to teach, I dont know more, no. Science has disproven deities.

If you're going to call me delusional, please demonstrate that I believe in something in spite of invalidating evidence. You know, I dont like when people bastardize the english language to suit their own agenda for their own closure, its saddening.

Originally posted by AnarchistSuperstar
Near death experience and out of body experiences exist, they are mental, being linked to phenemenon in the brain. Search CNN for "Out of body experience," and get into the field of biopsychology and neurolinguistics, its interesting stuff.

Thats irrelevent. You again continue with your murmurings and ramblings. You again evade the issue. That issue is one of disproving the existence of God. Your posturing and maneovering does not lend crediability to your claim. But what it does do, is reveal your position(s), views, and beliefs, and of coarse, your intents and purposes......much luck in your endeavors.

regards
seekerof

Deities have been disproven already, check out my theorem on the first page, right now I'm just addressing peoples followups, your claims that everything I say is at least a depressing attempt to dismiss anything I've said.

Originally posted by AnarchistSuperstar
Deities have been disproven already, check out my theorem on the first page, right now I'm just addressing peoples followups, your claims that everything I say is at least a depressing attempt to dismiss anything I've said.

Hello?!?! Your theorem is a theory. It is not infalliable, nor is it emperical. You do understand what "empirical" means don't you? Your a funny guy......"I'm just addressing peoples follow-ups"...what? In regards to your "theorem? I would most certainly say you need to address the follow-ups! Its also quite obvious, I'm not the only one seeing holes, as big as what a car can be driven through, in it.

You are still posturing and manoevering and your position of disproof is quite lacking. If your theorem is what you go by to disprove the existence of God, well, I will have to respect that, won't I? Be assurd, you disproved nada', nothing......

regards
seekerof

Theorem: An idea that has been demonstrated as true or is assumed to be so demonstrable

Its not a theory, sorry. I work with independently verifiable empirical evidence. Objective, not subjective like you assume the word is supposed to mean, otherwise people might actually believe there are monsters under their bed. I've addressed every single question aimed towards me and then some, cars can be driven through ideas, your right. Did you think my words are tangible and can be touched? Why do you keep saying "Existance of God," why dont you say "Existance of Gods"? You seem to have theological bias which is quite irrational, would you mind fessing up to that?

Originally posted by AnarchistSuperstar
Theorem: An idea that has been demonstrated as true or is assumed to be so demonstrable

Its not a theory, sorry. I work with independently verifiable empirical evidence. Objective, not subjective like you assume the word is supposed to mean, otherwise people might actually believe there are monsters under their bed. I've addressed every single question aimed towards me and then some, cars can be driven through ideas, your right. Did you think my words are tangible and can be touched? Why do you keep saying "Existance of God," why dont you say "Existance of Gods"? You seem to have theological bias which is quite irrational, would you mind fessing up to that?

Ohhh please, sell that bull larky to someone who believes it but you! I ain't buying that load of BS if it came with a stamped seal on it. You also understood me correctly Anarchist....existence of God....there is no mis-interpretation in that. If your belief is in many "gods", then by all means change your topic to "Gods Do Not Exist"., because friend, you have seriously failed to disprove just the One..God. Perhaps with multiple gods, you can find a better audience and a more plausible chance if at least disproving one of them!

Peace
regards
seekerof

*Reads through insults, evasions...*

Please tell me, is it rational to believe in something without a logical reason?

Yes/No. And while you're at it, I'd like to know what makes you so sure of the existance of God(s). Surely its nothing objective or legitimate, just testimonials of former convicts, most of the time.

Interesting nugger of knowledge: The US prison population is over 75% Christian.

Your vague dismissals do nothing for you, but you're amusing, I'll give you that.

No, I got something better for you.

Real events are witnessed far away from their body

If NDE's and OBE's are purely mental? Then why can people see things they couldn't have possibly seen , because they were unconscious and/or had no brainwave activity and were physically away from the object or things that they have seen.

Originally posted by AnarchistSuperstar
*Reads through insults, evasions...*

Please tell me, is it rational to believe in something without a logical reason?

Yes/No. And while you're at it, I'd like to know what makes you so sure of the existance of God(s). Surely its nothing objective or legitimate, just testimonials of former convicts, most of the time.

Interesting nugger of knowledge: The US prison population is over 75% Christian.

Your vague dismissals do nothing for you, but you're amusing, I'll give you that.

*reads through more of Anarchist's evasion and maneovering tactics*
I end my part in this discussion and topic. It amounts to your beliefs, your ideas, and is literally an opinion and, in truth, I will respect it for that.
Peace Anarchist.

regards
seekerof

Originally posted by AnarchistSuperstar
Reality exists, no matter how you describe it.

Then why are there scientists, who claim that reality might be an illusion???

Does the Universe Exist if We're Not Looking?
Eminent physicist John Wheeler says he has only enough time left to work on one idea: that human consciousness shapes not only the present but the past as well


www.totse.com...


www.totse.com...]Quantum Magic - what is reality?




CONSCIOUSNESS AND QUANTUM REALITY
with NICK HERBERT, Ph.D.



HERBERT: One of my claims to fame is that I have produced the shortest proof of Bell's theorem in existence. It's about three lines.

MISHLOVE: Now, Bell's theorem, as I understand it, goes back even prior to Bell -- to Einstein, and Einstein's disagreement with quantum physics, back in the early days. He made his classic statement, "God doesn't play dice with the universe," at a time when Einstein himself felt he disagreed with quantum physics, as I understand it. He felt that if quantum physics were true, it would have these horrendous implications which it now turns out are true.

HERBERT: Yes, Einstein was never comfortable with quantum theory, and he basically had three gripes with it. The one gripe was that quantum theory is a probabilistic theory. It just describes things like the world is essentially random and governed only by general laws that give the odds for things to happen, but within these odds anything can happen -- that God plays dice. Einstein didn't like that, but he could have lived with that. The second aspect that Einstein didn't like was the thinglessness, this fuzzy ambiguity -- that the world isn't made of things, it's not made of objects. It was put by Paul Davies -- the notion that somehow big things are made of little things. Quantum theory doesn't describe the world that way. Big things aren't made of little things; they're made of entities whose attributes aren't there when you don't look, but become there when you do look. Now, that sounds very, very strange.

MISHLOVE: Like an illusion.

HERBERT: Like an illusion, yes.

MISHLOVE: Or the Hindu concept of Maya, something like that.

HERBERT: That's right. The world exists when we don't look at it in some strange state that is indescribable. Then when we look at it, it becomes absolutely ordinary, as though someone were trying to pull something over our eyes
-- the world is an illusion. Einstein didn't like that. He felt that the big things were made of little things, as the classical physicists thought.

MISHLOVE: The Newtonian view of billiard-ball-like particles -- that if you could only understand the momentum and position of each one, you could predict everything in the universe.

HERBERT: Everything in the universe, yes, a comfortable sort of view.


"Quantum Physics and Reality"
by Ronald C. Pine


(just read the summary if you don't have the time...)

Okay, we have last word freaks, and people who think reality doesnt exist if you close your eyes. Ever close your eyes, and you dont see anything, but you hear things? Thats... insane, having a degree doesnt mean you're always right...

Thats just... retarded.. I'm sorry I've wasted my time on you, you cant reason with the unreasonable.

ASC's attiutude is "Don't confuse me with facts, my mind is already made up." The total exclusion of the possibility of supernatural entities is irrational. His mind is closed to such possibilities. No amount of evidence will change it. The question is how much evidence do these people require for belief. One miracle? Two miracles? A direct revelation from God? What would it take to convince him that God exists? This is the question for all skeptics - if all your objections were answered, how would you respond? Here is a perfect example of why I adopted Calvin's theology. No amount of evidence on our part will lead him to the truth - we are wasting our time in our attempts to edify him. He has called us irrational and has called me a liar. Therefore let us quit wasting our time in attempting to correct him of his errors - let him go his way, and let us turn or attentions to more useful pursuits.

Remember, Even other dimensions are included in Reality/Nature. Everything that exists. I've no problem in believing in some natural entity which had a beginning and cannot do the impossible, do you? Not that I would want to worship such an entity, however.

AS I take exception with your referring to the membership of this forum as freaks, to be certain my advice is that you look carefully with respect to your motivation.

Bells theorem is accepted as fact, any particle
created at the same time has the inherent
capacity to communicate information despite
distance.

Have you never heard of a Quantum computer????

Lets not waist any time here

Speaking of time, take into consideration we are only aware of (inherently) its wave aspect. Logic as a result, favors one who acknowledges that something is missing.

A particle version perhaps?????

Does not everything else in reality have one????

Feel to sugest that time is somehow different but to be honest what the hell do you know?

The coffee at ATS is as strong as it smells.

For the record, with respect to a particle aspect to time. An inherent conguency exist with respect to the past and future.

These are of course temporal issues....


[Edited on 14-7-2003 by Toltec]

Originally posted by AnarchistSuperstar
Okay, we have last word freaks, and people who think reality doesnt exist if you close your eyes. Ever close your eyes, and you dont see anything, but you hear things? Thats... insane, having a degree doesnt mean you're always right...

Thats just... retarded.. I'm sorry I've wasted my time on you, you cant reason with the unreasonable.

Oh Shoot!!! I'm gonna vote for you as funniest ATS member??? Are you serious here???

They are talking metaphorically of course. And note that what they're saying is based on actual scientific experiments and results.

If you can't see that, then you shouldn't be talking about the topic. Period.

Originally posted by jagdflieger
ASC's attiutude is "Don't confuse me with facts, my mind is already made up." The total exclusion of the possibility of supernatural entities is irrational. His mind is closed to such possibilities. No amount of evidence will change it.

And he's just a little kid. People his age you expect to be the most willing to learn.

As a near death survivor ..
All I can add is
consciousness = energy
Good and evil are mere perceptions
"The beginning and end is consciousness; the driving force behind the cosmic entity is the need of consciousness to find a material expression."
Also
Einstein's E = mc2 showed that matter was a form of energy, and so, with the advent of quantum theory, the material world began to dissolve into unimaginable, paradoxical bundles of energy or action. Matter itself was now understood to be ghostly swirls of energy, and began to take on qualities formerly associated with mind.



[Edited on 14-7-2003 by TisRaTil]

This topic is no longer about wether or not God exists, it has turned into one of many flame wars. Now, I haven't been here long, but even I've noticed that these "flaming" bursts have become commonplace now. Where's the dignity?? As for AnarchistSuperstar..................well, it's just an opinion, but he sounds like a closed-minded ignoramus who is willing to dispute anything with anyone as long as he's shouting. As for calling everyone freaks......well, speaks for itself really.

..............negative vibes are growing

as for wether God exists, I posted this in another topic, but it belongs here too:

Ok, here's the problem as I see it: Anyone who doesn't believe in God, seems to think that those who DO believe hold the belief only because of what they have been told and brought up in. Well, I can testify that this is BullS**t. Besides which, the whole purpose of God's revelations and the prophecies was so that people could tell others about God....

Now I was never brought up in any kind of christian society. I know very few people who believe in God at all, and I've always been brought up as an atheist. And I was fine with that, seemed to make sense. Also, being an atheist allowed me to make my own rules, I didn't believe so I didn't care.
I've already posted how I came to change my mind, but it had no influence from "God botherers" or anything outside......I just knew. I changed from one end of the spectrum to the other, for no reason other than my own experiences.

YEt atheists and the like seem to think that everyone who believes in God goes to church every sunday, reads the Bible every night and kiss's the Vicars feet in the hope of going to heaven. This is not true. Anyone can believe in God, you don't have to be brought up with Him, and you don't need to go to church to say a prayer.

From what I've read, the people who believe in God are willing to accept others views, probably because having had "Godly" experiences, there's no need to be angry - the simple fact that God exists makes them happy enough.
Yet those who do not believe, seem to be the ones who will not accept any view other than their own and insist that anyone who believes in God is "ramming it down their throats".
Well, everyone has different opinions, but to say God doesn't exist because you haven't experienced him is like saying you don't believe in worms because you've never seen one.
People need to be open minded about things here - too many people have made up their mind and are not willing to accept anything else. How can I say to you that God exists when you will never believe it anyway? People have had experiences with God. It happens, get over it. Just because you don't believe in Him doesn't mean that no one can experience Him.........

okay, thats about it.......

Originally posted by TisRaTil
As a near death survivor ..

Nice... Post your story in the spirituality forum, if you're willing to talk about it.

Shure when I have some time
its a real standard story by know
but some one my get something out of it...

I know there's a God. Now whether or not the stuff that is in the Bible and what is said about God is true or not, is a different story. But I do know that there is a God out there somewhere watching over us. Everything happens for a reason. Just because God doesn't let everyone live forever, doesn't mean God doesn't love us. You're looking at all the bad things in the world and blaming God for not fixing them, but what about all the good things in the world? If God fixed every problem in the world, then we would live in a perfect world, like heaven. But earth is not Heaven, and may not ever be. But that's why there's the afterlife. But there IS a God. Somewhere out there.....